photo management software

MaxCast · « **on:** 12 Sep 2009, 12:56 pm »

What do you use for photo management software?
We're getting a few pics building up, just bought a back up drive and am thinking we might need a management software to help us out. I figure we need more of a management vs. sharing type of program. Freeware is cool.

Is this a situation where you get out of it what you put into it? We have a few camera "dumps" where there is a file with a bunch of pics about everything. I imagine one would have to go through and title/add tags to every pic.

How do these programs sort? Are there categories that you fill in for each pic and then you can sort them by like: date, person, event, whatever? Does it put them into folders or just tag them so you can find them by a search?

In my 30seconds of searching I read that a program will go in and find every pic on your computer for organization. Will it get the pics on the back up drive too (therefore having doubles)?

What about my pics. Of course all my personal pics are sorted in files

I hope it would leave the pics in the files they are in but just tag them so if I searched for Christopher I would get pics from little league in one folder, pics from Christmas in another folder, and camping in another folder, etc. Then put them back when I was done.

Am I thinking right here?
Thanks for any suggestions.

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 01:33 pm »

Maybe have a look at Picasa? (I personally don't use it, my own system is much more complicated

)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa

Levi · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 01:45 pm »

There are tons out there. Picasa is good. I like ACDSee.

Pez · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 02:11 pm »

I use iPhoto and photoshop. I have to admit Photoshop is more than my puny ant brain can handle right now so I mostly use iPhoto which is not the most powerful "editing" tool I the world, but does most of what I need 70% of the time. Once I learn Photoshop I'll probably never go back.

MaxCast · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 02:14 pm »

Hi guys, I started to look at Picasa then I had to cook eggs.

I will look some more, as well as, at ACD.

Basic photo editing (red eye, crop, rotation) will be needed as well.

How do you guys print the pics you want? Personal printer, Walgreens, Walmart???

Pez, does photoshop manage your pics for searching? I still don't know how these softwares will manage the pics.

jqp · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Sep 2009, 07:30 pm »

Managing pics with software? Good idea!

I don't currently "manage" my pics with software per se, I currently use the operating sytem to do that. But I am open to the one perfect solution

I would like to hear about other systems.

This is what I do currently for organization/workflow for my pics. Workflow includes editing and uploading to photobucket.
In my mind I really don't seperate organization from workflow, unless I spend a lot of time on one picture.

After I have 20-250 photos (max that will fit on my 4GB card in RAW mode) I dump them into a folder on my PC. Saving the original data is the most important step other than letting others and yourself actually look at the photos!

I put all photos on the card, or other containing media, in folders named after today's date, even if many photos are from previous days. The folder is named like this yyyymmdd.

So a folder of pics dumped to my PC today would look like this: 20090912. The reason for this naming convention is that it always sorts alphabetically as well as by date! (learned this working with data and databases!) Also they are easy to find if a dump them to my laptop when away from my house.

I always dump them off my SD card (or dump them via a USB cable id I don't have my card reader for some reason) and then I try to remember to format my card before I start shooting again. Two reasons : create space on the card and to prevent any corruption on the SD card from continuing to the next set of photos.

====RAW mode Nikon=====

Once they are on my PC I look through them (obviously) with Nikon ViewNX to ogle ones that I really want to see. Any pic that does not have a problem (out of focus, overexposed, very inder exposed, etc.) I convert to JPG from RAW (.NEF in the Nikon world) into the same folder.

If I see something that I want to manipulate in RAW mode I will use ViewNX (free) or NX2 ($130) and do some digital darkroom work. I don't do any 'arts' stuff to my pics these days, maybe in the future. I just want them to be as to close to what I saw as possible.

====== in JPG mode ====

Once the JPGs are in their folder, I rifle through them with ACDSee (really old version) or Paintshop Pro (really old version) to see what I like the most and may want to put on Photobucket or flikr or even email to someone! Also this is where I see if something went terribly wrong (thankfully it usually doesn't) if I did not see it in the previous step. ACDSee is nice because you can 'flip through a stack' of photos very fast by using page down, or you click wheel on the mouse. Once I see something I want to work with, I will open it up in Paintshop Pro. Another option is to browse a folder in paintshop pro, which lays out thmbnails of your pics in a grid like may photo programs do. I only do this originally if I have less than say 20 pics to look at because more than that may be too cumbersome. This is a basic editing program that I have gotten used to. I will do layering etc. but I am not interested in that for the most part unlees I am doing some kind of art (as opposed to the art of photography, with the camera). Paintshop Pro allows me to crop then resize bicubically if I want to. That's about all I do.

At this point I have RAW, and possibly multiple versions of JPGs in 1 folder. I see no reason to create subfolders in a dump folder.

PaintShop folder does not pick up the RAW files so that is convenient - I only see the files it can manipulate. ACDSee shows only the thumbnail file that is a part oif the RAW container file of the NIKON world.

But if I keep the pic files all in the same folder, they have to be named appropriately to organize them and work with them. I have learned to always keep my RAW files named as the original files, or my JPGs if I shoot in JPEG mode. Then I never change the original name, I just tack on codes to the end of the name to create a new name. For example DSC_0186.JPG becomes 'DSC_0186cropped.JPG' or more likely, 'DSC_0186c.JPG'. If I then rotate it would become 'DSC_0186cr.JPG'. If I had changed exposure previously to cropping and resizing or rotating it might be 'DSC_0186daycr.JPG'. All versions of a pic are in the folder and I can find them by sorting within the folder if need be.

From this point I usually upload my favorites to the web. And get ready for my next shots by removing (safely) the card reader and putting the card back in the camera and formatting it.

This is also the time to back up that folder to another hard drive somewhere, preferably not on this PC. If not at this time, than at least weekly. My favorites are often already on the web somewhere, but not the RAW data! Once that is gone you cant get it back. You can always go through the folders and delete unwanted data later, but I like some time to pass before I make those decisions.

This leads me to think about hard drives. Get plenty! Hopefully you can afford more than 1 PC, with room for additional harddrives in each.

Alternativey you can get network storage which can be as expensive. Or at least an external drive that allows for quick-dock drives. Or all of the above.

With 1 TB drives under $100, there is almost no excuse. Also you can get a refurbished Dell PC with full warranty for under $400 with all the components. You don't even need a second monitor!

Also I often backup a valuable set of photos to a DVD disc. This is an alternative to a second hard drive but with time constraints I use a hard drive first. DVDs are a good third backup, as you can put them in a safty deposit box - but you will probably want check them every year! Same with harddrives!

Redundancy and separation are the most important things after the backup itself.

I want a better basic editing program (don't we all) but for now ACDSee and Paintshop Pro are what I have. Substitute anything here that works.

A reason for organizing this way is that I dont want to be tied to some company (Adobe, Apple, Microsoft...) that requires me to buy an upgrade just to keep my pics organized. My photographs will hopefull last for millenia

so I want to be able to handle them conveniently.

Also note that Adobe does not have the Nikon RAW 'algorithms' so I can't use the very popular Adobe programs to do some of this workflow

The good news is that Nikon's NX2 appears to be a VERY good program for working with thier RAW files.

Don_S · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 12:02 am »

Is anybody using HP Photosmart? I have resisted letting it have my photos so far because I hated the way Adobe Photoshop sucked everything in. I am also avoiding HP Photosmart because I hate the way my HP computer and HP print programs try to print every jpeg as a photo and I have to deal with trying to bypass their nonsense. The jpegs I print are scanned documents or spreadsheets. I do not use my computer to print photos.

I guess what I am asking is what will happen if I succumb to HP Photoshop? I lost Adobe when I redid my computer so I do not have any cropping etc. software unless I let HP have its way. I do not need anything too fancy. Just the ability to crop and maybe change contrast a little.

JohnR · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 01:07 am »

Quote from: MaxCast on 12 Sep 2009, 02:14 pm

I still don't know how these softwares will manage the pics.

It depends on the program. Some (iPhoto for example) will suck all your images into its own internal database. Others (Picasa for example, from what I read (*)) will work with your images wherever you have put them. Which makes it possible to set up your own organizational system like jqp uses.

Programs like Photoshop are editing tools not image management tools. As I understand it there are basically three classes of operation for digital photography: image management, RAW processing, and editing. Most actual programs overlap these areas in various ways.

(*) I thought Picasa was Windows only but I see there is a Mac version now. So I may try it myself.

JohnR · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 01:14 am »

Here is a lit of organizers and viewers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_image_viewers

Here is a list of image editors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_raster_graphics_editors

Here is some info on RAW convertors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAW_image_format#Software_support

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 01:16 am »

Quote from: Don_S on 13 Sep 2009, 12:02 am

I guess what I am asking is what will happen if I succumb to HP Photoshop? I lost Adobe when I redid my computer so I do not have any cropping etc. software unless I let HP have its way. I do not need anything too fancy. Just the ability to crop and maybe change contrast a little.

Might be worth having a look at the programs listed above before you do that.

MaxCast · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 02:38 am »

Mr Content · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 02:43 am »

We use iPhoto to manage our photos, some 300gb now, on an external drive, We have gone to a new level of management with iphoto. For what is a no cost option with a mac, it is all we need to look after our ever growing albums. We use Aperture with various plugins for photo post production.

Mr C

JohnR · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 04:18 am »

I believe MacCast is not a Mac user (or he would probably already be using iPhoto).

Unlike iTunes, iPhoto is not available on Windows (no money to be made there I guess).

Rich - most of these programs will let you add "tags" to images which I think it what you are looking for. Heck, I'm downloading Picasa now to try it.

jqp · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 08:03 am »

Tags would be a good way to go. I think you can tag files at the operating system level also these days, at least for Windows and Mac? Either way you will be creating a database of picture information, which you can query.

Mr Content · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 08:34 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 13 Sep 2009, 04:18 am

I believe MacCast is not a Mac user (or he would probably already be using iPhoto).

Unlike iTunes, iPhoto is not available on Windows (no money to be made there I guess).

Rich - most of these programs will let you add "tags" to images which I think it what you are looking for. Heck, I'm downloading Picasa now to try it.

Well Maxcast, you could save yourself a lot of time if you got a mac, iphoto with its face recognition will take a lot of hard work out of arranging your photos into albums. And no hangs, no freezes, no restarts..........heck its like using a tool that actually works

And this is from a ex windows user os 20 years

Mr C

JohnR · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 09:57 am »

I played with Picasa (version 3 beta for Mac) and it's pretty neat. Things I like:
* You can add specific folders to it and it just works with those folders
* You can move files around
* Editing operations are basic but useful and the UI is pretty slick
* Histogram while editing
* All edits are undoable

One thing is that if you "edit" an image the file in the file system remains unchanged. This could be a bit confusing if you view your images in some other program as well. It's only when you do a "Save" the file actually gets updated. But, Picasa stores a backup copy of the original file, so you can always undo the save, as it were. (The backup copies are in the directory ".picasaoriginals")

It does kinda want you to use Picasa Web and gmail, but it doesn't force you to. (Before you do use those services you should check carefully the terms of use - they may not be acceptable to you.) There was an option to send images with Thunderbird but it didn't work. There are some things in the UI I couldn't figure out but then again I've only used it for an hour or so.

It does do tagging and you can display all images with a given tag as an album. I'm not sure how useful that would be for 20 years worth of photos, though... it would be a heck of a lot of work to tag them all.

I don't know what the Windows version is like but I assume it's similar.

The reason I looked at it is because I need to clean up my old images pre my current system (which really only works well for new albums, too tedious to fix up old albums).

MaxCast · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 12:38 pm »

Thanks for the help guys.

Quote

most of these programs will let you add "tags" to images which I think it what you are looking for.

Cool. Yes, that is the main criteria.

Quote

you could save yourself a lot of time if you got a mac, iphoto with its face recognition

I would love to get a mac set up, but I also want a 60" plasma and we are going to Disney in three weeks.

Face recognition, that's interesting, does it really work? How would you know if it didn't

Quote

I played with Picasa (version 3 beta for Mac) and it's pretty neat.
Before you do use those services you should check carefully the terms of use - they may not be acceptable to you.
I'm not sure how useful that would be for 20 years worth of photos, though... it would be a heck of a lot of work to tag them all.

The edit thing is fine with me meaning we would be doing very basic editing and not being able to go back is fine. Although if there is an original somewhere that could be confusing. With a back up we'd have 4 copies of the same pic?
That second sentence is a bit scary, I'll be sure to read that user agreement.
20 years...that's why I want to get her started now because that's exactly what would happen...ME tagging 20 years of pics.

Since my wife is a scrap booker I started to look at these
http://www.creativememories.com/MainMenu/Our-products-and-services/Digital-Scrapbooking
not free but may be better off for her with the other add ons she can buy.

My main goal is to label/tag the photos as they are loaded on the computer. That would force you to delete the junk and add a title so you are not faced with a bunch of numbers only sortable by date.

PeteG · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 02:01 pm »

Lightroom 2 has pretty good organizational filters.

jqp · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 10:45 pm »

I would like to checkout Lightroom also, or Aperature - From what I have read it may be a good once my photos are in JPG format. Seems expensive though $300 and $200!

I think that Nikon Transfer (free) will allow you to tag your files as you transfer them. Other programs do this, I am sure. The question is, when should you tag your photos? That is, at what point in your photo-management workflow will you want to tag them? Too soon and you may have to do it twice. Just some thoughts - important to me since I tend to take 100-500 pictures per day, several days per month! Of course I may not keep many of them in the end, but I have to look at them them first.

MaxCast -

What camera do you have?
How large are the files coming off the camera?
What Operating system version and what are the basic specs of your PC?

These questions might help us recommend a good solution for you, even though it sounds as if we are all looking for a more perfect solution

Pez · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 11:04 pm »

Just literally upgraded to iLife 09. So far it is very impressive. Facial recognition seems to be a pretty killer feature. If you have a mac this is probably the best/easiest interface available.