Do you believe in break-in?

K Shep · « **on:** 9 Sep 2009, 12:51 am »

I brought home the new Ayre QB-9 USB DAC. I am feeding it with a Mac Mini. The manual claims "100 to 500 hours of music played through the system will ensure full break-in". Due to the manufacturing processes used for the printed circuit boards, wires, and capacitors, a break-in period is necessary for the USB D/A converter to reach its full performance potential.

I have first impressions, however is it fair to the mfg to post them prior to the suggested break-in period?

I am on the fence regarding break-in. Please let me know what you think.

Kirk

alan m. kafton · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:00 am »

All components require a certain amount of time to settle in and sound their best. Capacitors need to "form", and many other parts need to reach a certain thermal level to operate efficiently. Think of this process as "conditioning" rather than "break-in", which everyone uses but I think is a most unfortunate term.

Your ears, hopefully, will tell you if more time on the gear reveals greater performance.

gerald porzio · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:02 am »

The mfg. knows how long it'll take your ears to get enured to it's sonic signature. So 100 or 500 hrs, what's the big deal? You're going to listen anyway. As you may have surmised, I do not believe in break in.

K Shep · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:07 am »

The DAC had a signal flowing through it from Thursday - Monday (100 hours). It sounded like my speakers were placed in a cardboard box for the first few hours. It sounds a great deal different now.

Kirk

alan m. kafton · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:39 am »

There you go....the process continues, so expect more changes, subtle or otherwise.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:51 am »

Not sure if this is break-in or warm up, but years ago I borrowed a Bedini amp from a dealer and settled in for a long listen. It sounded like crap so I gave up. A couple of days later before I unhooked it to return the unit I gave it another listen and it was INCREDIBLE! Silky smooth violins, great imaging, etc. Too bad I couldn't afford it at the time.

rockadanny · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 02:52 am »

Definitely happened with tubes for me in two different amps. Easily identifiable at around the 50 hr. mark, tubes became more balanced and the bass finally locked in. Then more subtle around the 100 hr. mark, tubes sounded more refined and smooth. So for me, at least with tubes.

macrojack · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 03:21 am »

I was already to say yes, I am a big believer in break-in. That's one of the reasons I have a large dog. Then I read the thread and realized you weren't asking about burglary.

JimJ · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 04:57 am »

Tubes, yes...capacitors, yes (although aren't they already formed at the factory nowadays?)...things like power cables/interconnects, not so sure.

mjosef · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 05:07 am »

Belief? Belief has nothing to do with that.

I have heard the so called "break-in"...with wire and components. I have heard stuff sound better with working-time, and I have heard a few that sounded worse after some run-in-time.
YMWV

Mr Content · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 07:19 am »

Yes breakin is a real thing, just about every component will need some breakin, some needing several 100 hours to reach their best. Thats about it

Mr C

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 10:25 am »

Break-in you will get the full performance of every of your components in your system even if after modifying.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 11:08 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 9 Sep 2009, 05:07 am

I have heard a few that sounded worse after some run-in-time.

Jeez, that would suck.

Wayner · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 11:46 am »

Yes, the human mind finally surrenders to the idea that something sounds different.

Wayner

Niteshade · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 11:53 am »

Owner break in! Familiarity does invite acceptance. This is without a doubt true.

Quote from: Wayner on 9 Sep 2009, 11:46 am

Yes, the human mind finally surrenders to the idea that something sounds different.

Wayner

BobM · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 12:51 pm »

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that break-in is real. After modifying and building all types of equipment over the years I can unequivically state that the sound will change over time. Generally that means 50-100 hours with a signal running through it. That goes for wires, resistors, capacitors, transformers, chips (all of which exist in your components to one degree or another).

Sometimes the break-in takes longer (i.e. teflon caps and such), like 200+ hours. Yes, that sucks, but it is real.

If you don't hear this then perhaps you are listening to the wrong cue's. Sometimes the tonality will change a bit, most noticeable in the bass or cymbals and tinkly things. Tjhis tends to happen rather quickly though. Then you should notice greater contrasts in macro and micro dynamics, which is sometimes immediately noticeable and sometimes takes a small amount of time to gel. Lastly the soundstange, ambience and air around instruments will fall into place and open up (not everyone considers this an important aspect of the sound and not everyone's system can reproduce these effects to the same degree). This last stage is what takes the longest to achieve.

Good luck,
Bob

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 01:23 pm »

I've experienced it too many times in various and sundry ways.

As Bob M points out, teflon caps and wire with teflon dielectric typically takes the longest of all

This is what I've found:

Wire (due to dieletric I believe) - 0 to 200 hours (PTFE teflon having longest breakin)
Capacitors - 25 to 400 hours (Blackgates have taken longest among those I know)
Tubes - ~5 hours (seems not to vary much by type or brand)

Its typically a phasey indistinctness I hear and find often, like Bob, cymbol crashes the most noticeably affected.

Wish it weren't so and have tried to tell myself its brain breakin, but I sincerely doubt it.

John

sts9fan · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 03:01 pm »

I think its 98% mental and getting used to the new sound.

nathanm · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 03:22 pm »

Of course! Give me a cardboard sheet and a boombox and I'm good to go.

JohnR · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Sep 2009, 03:24 pm »

I hope that's a reflective cardboard sheet (and with no tint).