[SuperMart]

My trusty LP12 continues to gather dust Andy.

As I said to Hugh today "The old Soraya sounds like it's playing a CD by Andras Schiff. The new Soraya sounds like........Andras Schiff."

Cheers,

[AKSA]

Thanks KK, Lyn, Laurie, Ben and Marty, for excellent reviews.  This weekend I will be showing off the new Soraya to several more people, but it's becoming apparent that there is a marriage in heaven with the VSonics, which demonstrate incredible clarity and layering.  The new Bass ENhancer, which we call BEN, resplendent with the prefix BIG, caps it off for a monumental acoustic experience, working on a kit version of this speaker right now!!

In the last three days I've built, mounted, set up and tested another six modules - all are accounted for, and more to come.  Another six lie mostly completed;  I've ordered more heatsinks!

Clem, Peter, Paul, Matt, Dennis, Ola, Marty - all are awaiting product, and I'm pedalling as fast as I can, but quite enjoying it!  It is spring, after all......

Cheers,

Hugh

[LM]

Time for a quick 'impressions' update as I picked up my latest 2009 spec Soraya yesterday afternoon and had it up and running in my system about 7PM last night.  It had achieved about an hour or so of running earlier at Hugh's as it was checked out after assembly.

I had the feeling that Hugh would have liked to give it a bit more time in his system for bedding all the caps etc in and so he could have a bit more time to evaluate the new 'choked' power supply which isn't yet in his demo model but customers rights exerted, I tucked the amp securely under my arm and scurried away.  Hugh just has to understand that this amp is now mine, mine, mine!!!

It's still a little early to give a full evaluation report.  Even as we listened through the bewitching hour (yep, over 5 hours straight with dinner quickly squeezed in somewhere), the amp still only had a bare 6 hours up but it had settled down beautifully and already I'd have to say it is simply an amazing performer.   My wife who rarely listens for more than an hour or so at a time stayed up with me and kept asking for her favourite CDs to be played - to heck with my standard evaluation tracks apparently.

So updated impressions then!  Best to start with my comments at the first post of this thread as a basis and then say there appeared to be an even greater layering, lack of noise and sheer clarity than I remember from then.  Attack and decay of notes is just so precise and the imaging and involvement simply the best I?ve ever experienced.  Drums, vocals and treble detail are superb.  PRAT is brilliant.  The only real physical difference between the demo amp and mine is the upgraded power supply and Hugh would need to comment on how much difference that may have made.   In summary, this is a humdinger of an amp - totally musical.  It would not surprise me if someone with far more hifi experience than me pronounced it as one of the best out there.  It is incredibly clean and articulate without in any way falling into the classic SS etched or tizzy mould.  Combined with a valve pre such as my GK1, it gives a system that is just a nice touch on the warm side of neutral but oh so realistic.  My wife kept commenting on the how good the drums, cymbals and guitars sounded as the Travelling Wilburys and Ross Wilson amongst others, played away.

To finish up with a few minor points then, there is virtually no speaker thump at switch on, I have chosen green 'leds' rather than the previous blue and the revised internal layout is a sheer joy to behold.  If any friends from around Melbourne want to have a listen, please get in touch.  If the phone happens to ring between tracks, I just might hear it. 

[daredevil_kk]

Argh Lyn,

You beat me in getting the amp 1st.. Anyway nice review, now you are making me more impatient. What input caps did you get him to install for you? Silver/oil?

KK

[LM]

You beat me in getting the amp 1st.. 

Bit hard to reply when one is riddled  aa

You'll be pleased to know that I had to go home with a temporary (old) face plate (till the new supplies come in shortly) as your faceplates had been put safely aside and spoken for so there was no delay in having yours ready for your agreed shipment date.  It appeared that much of your order had been done.  After all, I only live a 10 or so minute drive away from Aspen.  You are going to absolutely love these amps.  I really suspect the new power supply provides sonic enhancements over what you heard at Hughs'.

I have the Sonicap platinum rather than the Mundorf as I am a bit of a detail freak.  Many others (I think Hugh included) prefer the slightly different (warmer??) silver oils.

[VYnuhl.Addict]

Lyn,
 

    Right now I live vicariously through your re-assessment of the Soraya, im currently in the midst of another move right now  and the prototypes are tucked away which is a first in about 3 years!. I agree though, from the moment I rigged Hugh's idea up and tested it out all I could think of is the winner on  Aspens hands, a little honing and voila!, an incredible start towards 2010 I believe. Im swamped with work nowadays, good thing in many respects economy considered and a giant lull makes you appreciate work when its there, but bit by bit getting the Maya4 boards filled and ready to be heatsinked, the only difference from the Soraya2009 being the output stage . Getting those drums right, as a drummer is VERY important, and imaging to get lost in always a plus. Travelling Wilbury's recordings have always surprised me, off hand at first they arent striking as "Audiophile" esque, but Ive noticed they are damn hard to get sounding right at playback on some equipment prior as there are many nuances, yet the recording is quite dry. Many thanks for your literal refresher!>


Colin

[LM]

Hi Colin,

Moving - yuk!  Had more than enough of that myself and feels so good to be settled.

Yep, drums should be good and are rarely well reproduced.  I hated the early synthetic drum kit with its microsecond correct repeat accuracy and the 40 or is it 80hz dub dub is worse.  The slight variations in rhythm and from how and where the skin is hit is integral to the musical expression IMO.  I'm sure some people don't stop to realise that there are multiple parts to even a simple drum beat.  For example, the sound when the stick hits and remains in contact with the skin is different to the resonance and decay after it has lost skin contact.  And there is a lot more artistry than that which a drummer can apply to vary the sound.

Same, same discussion re piano 'strikes' and guitar etc string plucks and so on.  It's just great to have an amp that does this do well.

[Tliner]

Hi Lyn & Colin.

I agree that drums should sound like drums but also should feel like drums, particularly the kick drum etc.

Recently, I had the experience of being present when a recording engineer was testing kick drum mikes. Mike 1 was doofie and we were not impressed at all. Mike 2 was good but did not record much slam of the initial impact and decay. Mike 3 (very expensive) recorded the drum in a very life like manner with slam, impact and decay etc, a good all rounder. I took the opportunity to tune BEN (the woofer) to be able to reproduce the kick drum and electric bass guitar in conjunction with the VSonics to reproduce a seamless  live experience.

The prototype of BEN is powered by a 600W hotted up ( better quality components used) plate amp. Along with the recording engineer we decided that the kick drum sounded and felt like the real thing when A/B tested. We had the drum in the listening room and there was not any thing between them except that the foot pedal on the live drum squeaked. For realism the squeek was recorded to along with the sound of the drum squirming and jumping around on the floor with every impact.
 At live levels the cone of the woofer's driver was moving about 20mm with each impact. Piano and electric bass guitar also come across in a life like manner too, exhibiting all the instruments slam and decay of the note etc. And that sounded good with the Maya powering the VSonics.

I can't wait for a 2009 Soraya CB105 which will improve the listening experience to truly "real" levels.

Now that good kick drum mike selection has challenged the recording engineer, who also does his own mastering, to record snare drums and cymbals so that the rivets in the cymbals can be heard shimmering to a stop. Piano and electric bass guitar also sound real particularly in slam and decay of each note.

Cheers,


Laurie

   

[DSK]

Time for a quick 'impressions' update as I picked up my latest 2009 spec Soraya yesterday afternoon and had it up and running in my system about 7PM last night.  It had achieved about an hour or so of running earlier at Hugh's as it was checked out after assembly.

I had the feeling that Hugh would have liked to give it a bit more time in his system for bedding all the caps etc in and so he could have a bit more time to evaluate the new 'choked' power supply which isn't yet in his demo model but customers rights exerted, I tucked the amp securely under my arm and scurried away.  Hugh just has to understand that this amp is now mine, mine, mine!!!

It's still a little early to give a full evaluation report.  Even as we listened through the bewitching hour (yep, over 5 hours straight with dinner quickly squeezed in somewhere), the amp still only had a bare 6 hours up but it had settled down beautifully and already I'd have to say it is simply an amazing performer.   My wife who rarely listens for more than an hour or so at a time stayed up with me and kept asking for her favourite CDs to be played - to heck with my standard evaluation tracks apparently.

So updated impressions then!  Best to start with my comments at the first post of this thread as a basis and then say there appeared to be an even greater layering, lack of noise and sheer clarity than I remember from then.  Attack and decay of notes is just so precise and the imaging and involvement simply the best I?ve ever experienced.  Drums, vocals and treble detail are superb.  PRAT is brilliant.  The only real physical difference between the demo amp and mine is the upgraded power supply and Hugh would need to comment on how much difference that may have made.   In summary, this is a humdinger of an amp - totally musical.  It would not surprise me if someone with far more hifi experience than me pronounced it as one of the best out there.  It is incredibly clean and articulate without in any way falling into the classic SS etched or tizzy mould.  Combined with a valve pre such as my GK1, it gives a system that is just a nice touch on the warm side of neutral but oh so realistic.  My wife kept commenting on the how good the drums, cymbals and guitars sounded as the Travelling Wilburys and Ross Wilson amongst others, played away.

To finish up with a few minor points then, there is virtually no speaker thump at switch on, I have chosen green 'leds' rather than the previous blue and the revised internal layout is a sheer joy to behold.  If any friends from around Melbourne want to have a listen, please get in touch.  If the phone happens to ring between tracks, I just might hear it. 

Ditto!

I had the opportunity this weekend to catch up with Hugh and listen to his current demo system, including the prototype new pre-amp and the Soraya CB105 2009, the Vsonics and BEN.

Simply stunning. I have quoted Lyn's feedback above as I found myself nodding at every comment as I read it. All I can add is that bass detail and damping is truly superb, the system is quieter than previous models with greater transparency and instruments-in-the-room-ness. My comment to Hugh was that it is a "sharper scalpel" but with no sense of edginess or over emphasis. Leading edges are super quick and sharp and decays are the best I've heard.

The first couple of tracks were evidently from CD's not that well recorded and the vocals sounded a little coarse and sibilant. For a few minutes I wondered what all the fuss was about and thought my savings were safe. Then, we put on some better recorded material and I slid down into the chair in total submission. Even during busy passages played loud, every instrument maintained its own space and was beautifully delineated and articulated ... quite impressive from 2-way speakers (+ BEN).

In a desperate attempt not to sound like an Aspen fanboy, if I had to be super critical, the only aspect of the performance less than super impressive was front to back layering. However, I believe this is more due to Hugh's room than the system/speakers and I would love to repeat the session with some absorptive room treatment on the wall behind the component rack.

It was a very enjoyable day, catching up with Hugh and AndyR for some listening and coffee, then lunching with Hugh and Sri after even more listening, then back to Hugh's for yet more listening.

[AKSA]

Thanks guys,

These are very good reports on the sound of the new Soraya and I appreciate the care taken with choosing the right words.  Sometimes I feel describing sound with words is like attempting to describe the difference between red and blue to a blind man!!  It ain't easy.....

Darren, by 9am the next day that Soraya you heard had received a new power supply, and this addition greatly enhanced an already stunning presentation.  Strange isn't it?  The sound just gets better and better, and the soundfield too is a bit deeper.  This is the production supply.



This power supply is based around common mode chokes, and delivers very clean power at all output currents.  The amp is quiet as a church mouse, yet with the power and drive of a grisly bear!

I took it to a Melbourne Audio Club group yesterday and we all had a good listen.  WOW!!  Very, very nice.

Cheers,

Hugh 

[LM]

Hi Darren,

I like your scalpel analogy.  Yes I found the amp to display a very delicate yet incisive nature when needed but also great heft when that was necessary as well.  Quite an unusual (and great) balance IMO.  And Hugh is right; choosing words can be hard particularly without inadvertently sounding like an Aspen PR man.  In my case, the difficulty is in trying to best express the complete wholeness and musicality it imparts to my system.

By the way, mine has now accumulated about 15/20 hrs all up and there were a few subtle changes on the way though to about 10 hrs.  Not sure what components may have contributed as power supply and amp modules were all brand new whereas Hugh has only just put the new power supply in the one you heard apparently.  The only sibilance I noticed was within the first 10/20 mins of its life as it first warmed up.  More in retrospect as it has smoothed out beautifully now, there was perhaps a slight stridency in the treble for maybe the first 5 or 6 hours and perhaps a very subtle further softening after that. I'm extremely happy with my sound stage and as I said earlier, if any Melbourne friends want a listen at other than Hugh's place, let's know. 

[AKSA]

Thanks Lyn,

Carefully considered words......  but no one is commenting!!

My feeling is that three qualities distinguish this amp from previous models.  Higher resolution, far more prominent, articulate bass, and quieter background.  Like all these high end qualities, these are purported to be only marginal improvements, but the problem is that once heard, you can't go back, audiopathy being what it is, the disease is inexorable, and takes us ever higher in our expectations.

Cheers,

Hugh

[guest1632]

Thanks Lyn,

Carefully considered words......  but no one is commenting!!

My feeling is that three qualities distinguish this amp from previous models.  Higher resolution, far more prominent, articulate bass, and quieter background.  Like all these high end qualities, these are purported to be only marginal improvements, but the problem is that once heard, you can't go back, audiopathy being what it is, the disease is inexorable, and takes us ever higher in our expectations.

Cheers,

Hugh

Hi \Hugh,

Boy go away for less than a year, or maybe a bit more, let's see it was the \lifeforce that was beginning to be discussed. \now two generations later, and \i think you price this new amp out at about 5\k, that should be about right for a top flight amp.

\now, what's the difference between the previous preamp til this one. Any idea of price for the new preamp?

\just curious, what are you using for interconnects? Same for the power cord.

\now, \hugh, as a blind man \i can personally tell you Red and Blue don't mean a thing. They are just words to me, with possible concepts.

. Sure, Red can be hot, and it can also be rather dramatic in its appearance. Blue on the other hand is sorta like the sky. When you think of blue skies, you look out there and see those wisby clouds, a nice say, 75 degrees F, with just a touch of a soft breeze blowing. \i have only concepts oof what color is. \it's almost like trying to explain to a two dimentional man what three dimentions is all about. Can't be done real well. \it's just one of those things you have to see and til then totally understand.

Ray Bronk

[AKSA]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for coming back to us!!  Now, answers......

Now, what's the difference between the previous preamp til this one. Any idea of price for the new preamp?

More resolution, stronger, more dynamic presentation (much stronger bass in particular) more natural sound field, rather less tube coloration but still a slight warmth, better depth and width to the image.

just curious, what are you using for interconnects? Same for the power cord.

I have some I made myself, using multiple silver wire strands with Neutron connectors.

Power cord is a heavy duty 15A standard IEC, nothing fancy.  I try to get good results with commonly available interconnects and power cords, so that the 'house' sound can be replicated anywhere!

Hugh, as a blind man I can personally tell you Red and Blue don't mean a thing. They are just words to me, with possible concepts.   Sure, Red can be hot, and it can also be rather dramatic in its appearance. Blue on the other hand is sorta like the sky. When you think of blue skies, you look out there and see those wisby clouds, a nice say, 75 degrees F, with just a touch of a soft breeze blowing. I have only concepts of what color is. it's almost like trying to explain to a two dimentional man what three dimentions is all about.

I think it must be the same with language. As English speakers, we can only speculate on the pungency  and vitality of a thorough reprimand in Spanish, a wonderful, colorful language of great emotional intensity,  but if we don't actually speak Spanish, then the impact is lost.  We really only miss something if we had it once before, but it has since been lost - and in this sense, good audio remains an elusive target, since all of us remember a 'sound' at one time in our lives, doubtless romanticised by febrile memory, and we seek to reclaim it!

Cheers,

Hugh

[guest1632]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for coming back to us!!  Now, answers......

Now, what's the difference between the previous preamp til this one. Any idea of price for the new preamp?

More resolution, stronger, more dynamic presentation (much stronger bass in particular) more natural sound field, rather less tube coloration but still a slight warmth, better depth and width to the image.

just curious, what are you using for interconnects? Same for the power cord.

I have some I made myself, using multiple silver wire strands with Neutron connectors.

Power cord is a heavy duty 15A standard IEC, nothing fancy.  I try to get good results with commonly available interconnects and power cords, so that the 'house' sound can be replicated anywhere!

Hugh, as a blind man I can personally tell you Red and Blue don't mean a thing. They are just words to me, with possible concepts.   Sure, Red can be hot, and it can also be rather dramatic in its appearance. Blue on the other hand is sorta like the sky. When you think of blue skies, you look out there and see those wisby clouds, a nice say, 75 degrees F, with just a touch of a soft breeze blowing. I have only concepts of what color is. it's almost like trying to explain to a two dimentional man what three dimentions is all about.

I think it must be the same with language. As English speakers, we can only speculate on the pungency  and vitality of a thorough reprimand in Spanish, a wonderful, colorful language of great emotional intensity,  but if we don't actually speak Spanish, then the impact is lost.  We really only miss something if we had it once before, but it has since been lost - and in this sense, good audio remains an elusive target, since all of us remember a 'sound' at one time in our lives, doubtless romanticised by febrile memory, and we seek to reclaim it!

Cheers,

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

There's no way \i would attempt the kits, so \i'd rather end up buying the commercial versions. We are fortunate on the circle to have such good audio vendors producing audio stuff for inexpensive (relatively speaking) prices for what you get. Seems to me that a 5K amp should sound like your reviews. the preamp, another 3K or so, and no doubt it is also probably be World class. Now, ... just gotta match this up with the appropriate speeks, and some good sources to complimendthe equipment to bring out the sound, and wahla, Audio Heaven!

Now, Hugh, when's the integrated amplifier gonna come out?

Ray Bronk

[AKSA]

Wow, Ray, integrated amp!!  You gotta be kidding!!   

Market reality:  Integrated amps are regarded as less than purist, mid-fi.  Particularly as the Japanese first brought them out and now the Chinese are doing same.

Therefore, the quality is not to the same standard.

For Aspen, an Integrated would cost more to make, yet it would have to sell for less.......  that makes no sense at all.  Strictly, integrated amps would have to be machine assembled with cheaper components.

My first love is power amps, my second preamps.  I do the preamps under suffrance, they are a bitch to build, lots of switching, digital remotes, chasing down proper earthing.  But it is clearly necessary to offer both for the obvious reason they must match well.


Cheers,

Hugh

[guest1632]

Wow, Ray, integrated amp!!  You gotta be kidding!!   

Market reality:  Integrated amps are regarded as less than purist, mid-fi.  Particularly as the Japanese first brought them out and now the Chinese are doing same.

Therefore, the quality is not to the same standard.

For Aspen, an Integrated would cost more to make, yet it would have to sell for less.......  that makes no sense at all.  Strictly, integrated amps would have to be machine assembled with cheaper components.

My first love is power amps, my second preamps.  I do the preamps under suffrance, they are a bitch to build, lots of switching, digital remotes, chasing down proper earthing.  But it is clearly necessary to offer both for the obvious reason they must match well.


Cheers,

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

In some respects you are correct. There are however a handful of companies out there that would I think somewhat disagree with you. we have vendors right here in Audio Circle that make Integrated amps. Perhaps, somewhat reduced power, but the quality of the components would be as good as there separate counterparts.

Your stuff on the other hand, yep, that would be hard to put in to any form of integration.

Back in the mid .70's, \Mitsubichi had a 100 watt amp with a preamp that literally bolted on to the front, to make an integrated amplifier. Unfortunately, the preamp wasn't very good. The amp on the other hand competed rather nicely compared to the GAS Son of Ampzilla.

Dynalab, their receiver is basically three components in one, a decent AM FM tuner, a preamp, and a power amp.

Ray Bronk

[AKSA]

Hmmm,

OK, let's keep an open mind.....

Ray, how can I make an integrated amplifier cheaply, and attract the attention of serious high end buyers, and still make a profit?

Remember, I'm a hand assembly guy, and my products reflect this care with matching, build quality, and durability.  It's a tough ask..... and the answer almost mandates Chinese assembly.

Cheers,

Hugh

[Seano]

...how can I make an integrated amplifier cheaply, and attract the attention of serious high end buyers, and still make a profit?

The only way that I can see you doing that is to offer a built product based on either the LF or the redundant 100N+ with a bolt-on, bought in pre-assembled pre-amp module (possibly a passive?).  Could be as straightforward as one of Rod Elliot's or Greg Ball's designs or as fancy as Wellborne's remote controlled attenuator.  But even then you'd still be looking at an integrated amp that'd have to touch US$3500 to make the effort financially worthwhile for the manufacturer. 

That'd all be good until one of the Interweb's 'independent' reviewers lifts the hood to find the sum of its parts is less than bespoke and says so....and no matter how good it sounds...if it looks like a cynical marketing exercise with less than sparkling manufacturer commitment to the product....then the result could be akin to using a freighter anchor on a short chain to restrain a kayak in deep water. 

[VYnuhl.Addict]

Hi All,


    Theres no doubt that there are many fine integrateds out there, but at the end of they day its biggest caveat is the ability to suit a system to ones tastes. Integrateds are suited to cleanliness of setup, they sure do make putting together a system on a budget in some cases easier, cheaper, and many wives out there approve of the minimalist aspect associated with an integrated . From a technical standpoint many support keeping the pre stages physically futher away from the power delivery aspect to avoid potential contamination at the small signal level, but technical aspects aside it does limit the "tweakability" aspect as at mid-market level we are often level with the op-amp rolling option. Adding a Tube preamp into the same box as a SS amplifier would be even tougher(though not impossible), as Hugh veers towards the Tube pre stages and SS amplification this would probablly be the most likely combination for best sonics, then the other factors pop in, Phono stage, no Phono stage?, then the real fun begins with noise interference from PS, etc. Others do it successfully agreed, but then of course economical factors kick in and as Hugh runs on a small scale and self builds this would be a gigantic load to take on both physically and financially..Ive learned largely over the last two years working with Hugh on ideas that the company is passion fueled more than anything else, an asset to us who love audio, but not the pocketbooks even at the high to some price that an amplifier sells for.

Hope this helps a little
Colin