Where are the wire is just wire guys?

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Danny Richie

Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« on: 4 Sep 2009, 09:13 pm »
I noticed that since the introduction of the Majik Buss, and considering all the high recommendations, reviews, and free demo offers, that almost all of the people ordering these for the free demo offer were people that were already using power conditioning, good cabling, etc.

For the most part these are the people that have already been down the road and know all too well the benefits of cleaner power and the resulting lower noise floor.

Very few have been guys that were new to trying something along these lines.

So where are all the skeptics and nay sayers when the free demo offer comes along? Where are all of the wire is just wire guys? I think some of you guys are really missing out here. You have nothing to loose but a little shipping cost. Come on guys. A free demo!

Check the threads below for more info:

Original Majik Buss thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67931.0

Free demo thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68006.0

More demo tour info: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70905.0

Audiogon review: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70558.0

dvenardos

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #1 on: 4 Sep 2009, 10:44 pm »
Kind of a big ticket item if you haven't gone down that route already. I know for sure that I want an N3 tower center and OB SW-12, so it isn't something that I would want to put ahead of those.

Danny Richie

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #2 on: 4 Sep 2009, 11:36 pm »
My thoughts were that the Majik Buss was not only one of the most effective noise filters on the market but also one of the least expensive.

There might be something to that thought though. I have had quite a few returned because at the moment they couldn't really afford to keep it. But for many it did hit their short list of must have components for when they can afford it.

Still, it cost very little to try one out.

bunnyma357

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Sep 2009, 12:44 am »
I'm a wire is wire guy, and I'd love to demo the Majik Buss. I think power line filtering is much easier to illustrate the need for, and the results of, than esoteric speaker cables and I/C's. Garbage on A/C lines and Voltage shifts are very easy to document. You can just look at a light bulb dim when the refrigerator compressor kicks in to know that the interaction over A/C needs to be addressed.

The problem is that regardless of the results of the demo, in this economy I don't have the cash, so it would just be a waste of your time and additional frustration for me, knowing there is an improvement I can't have. I'd guess a lot of the wire is wire guys are in the same boat, otherwise there wouldn't be so much great used gear up for sale at great prices, with surprisingly few offers.

I do look forward to having a chance to try the Majik Buss when I can actually justify purchasing it - hopefully, that will be sooner rather than later.

Jim C

bluemike

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Sep 2009, 12:47 am »
I need to sell my other PLC before I even attempt to demo the Majik Bus .. that's my story and i'm sticking to it

timind

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #5 on: 5 Sep 2009, 02:07 am »
The power in my home is very clean and stable. Although I have used surge suppressors and filters/conditioners at times, currently there nothing but wire between the walls and components. Would I benefit from the Majik Buss?

Danny Richie

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #6 on: 5 Sep 2009, 03:50 am »
Fredgarvin, I am not really sure what your comment is in reference to.

Jim C, I appreciate you comments.

Timind, you might be surprised, and you are welcome to find out for sure if you like.

sl_1800

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #7 on: 5 Sep 2009, 04:03 am »
I'm somewhat in the camp of wire is wire but I did hear a difference at Art's house when Danny changed out some speaker wire, a big difference.

dBe

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #8 on: 5 Sep 2009, 04:20 am »
The power in my home is very clean and stable. Although I have used surge suppressors and filters/conditioners at times, currently there nothing but wire between the walls and components. Would I benefit from the Majik Buss?

Where do you live?  If you live in the United States, have a computer, a refrigerator, a cell phone and neighbors, have AM/FM radio and/or analog or digital TV accessibility, I can guarantee that you do not have clean power.  It may be stable, but if you answered "Yes" to any one of the questions that came before, clean power is merely an illusion.

The A/C power grid is a cesspool filled with electrical noise and that is why I developed the prototype for these filters years ago: to enable clean power in a local recording studio in Albuquerque.  They are in a business center where there are a gang of refrigeration compressors.  Having a seperate, dedicated transformer for the studio was not adequate and I noodled on the problem for months before I came up with this design.  The studio owner and I tried everything that we could find on the market that was affordable and after that frustrating experience, I hit on the idea that would evolve into the BUSS series.  It is not a surge suppressor.  It is a conditioner/filter/correction device.

Yes, I think it will benefit your system, but, hey...... I'm the designer.

Give one a try.  All it takes is time to do what we all do best: listen.

Dave

mcallister

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #9 on: 5 Sep 2009, 10:25 am »
I think I'd like to try one. From reading the description of the product I'm curious about where to put it in my chain. I'm using a Monster AVS2000 from my wall. Would I place the Majik Buss before the 2000? I mean plug the majik Buss directly into the wall and then the AVS2000 into the Majik Buss?

Nick77

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #10 on: 5 Sep 2009, 12:34 pm »
I am confused with power conditioning and protection of the audio equipment. I hear about people perferring to plug into the wall, but what about surge protection? Does a Bus protect my equipment or are we to add the Bus to voltage protection?? Isnt surge protection the more important element??
We have lighting storms and loss of electricty often here in Austin.

Voncarlos

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #11 on: 5 Sep 2009, 01:57 pm »
I was holding off from joining this thread but feel that I have to relate a little story. In the late 1980's I was working in Los Angeles for a large Texas based company that made very large (and very secret) computer controlled machines. At a satellite site, they could not get some new machines to operate properly. It was suggested that we should check the power coming into them, so a AC analyzer with dot matrix printer and full case of paper was attached at the end of the day, the lights turned off and everyone went home. The next morning, the full case of paper was spilled out all over the floor recording all the voltage fluctuations!!! An industrial conditioner/filter was hooked up and the problems went away.
I've been using a conditioner/filter on my audio equipment since 1990 and could not go back to unfiltered AC. 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #12 on: 5 Sep 2009, 02:30 pm »
I am confused with power conditioning and protection of the audio equipment. I hear about people perferring to plug into the wall, but what about surge protection? Does a Bus protect my equipment or are we to add the Bus to voltage protection?? Isnt surge protection the more important element??
We have lighting storms and loss of electricty often here in Austin.

Hi!

No, I don't think the Majibuss has any fuse or any protection devices at all. Its not in the spirit of the product as it really provides completely uninterrupted flow of current to your equipment. My recommendation and what I'll be doing is this:

AC Outlet -> Majibuss -> Balanced A/C conditioner (like Dodd, BPT, Equitech, Furman or a DIY version)-> Your equipment. You can buy the Balanced A/C conditioner used on the market.

This should really provide state of the art power conditioning with safety measures built in. You can just stop there and you'll be way ahead imho.

Best,
Anand.

Danny Richie

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #13 on: 5 Sep 2009, 02:48 pm »
Quote
AC Outlet -> Majibuss -> Balanced A/C conditioner (like Dodd, BPT, Equitech, Furman or a DIY version)-> Your equipment. You can buy the Balanced A/C conditioner used on the market.


And I have a really nice Dodd Audio, balanced power supply listed for sale in the first link of the first post.  aa

zybar

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #14 on: 5 Sep 2009, 03:07 pm »
I am confused with power conditioning and protection of the audio equipment. I hear about people perferring to plug into the wall, but what about surge protection? Does a Bus protect my equipment or are we to add the Bus to voltage protection?? Isnt surge protection the more important element??
We have lighting storms and loss of electricty often here in Austin.

Hi!

No, I don't think the Majibuss has any fuse or any protection devices at all. Its not in the spirit of the product as it really provides completely uninterrupted flow of current to your equipment. My recommendation and what I'll be doing is this:

AC Outlet -> Majibuss -> Balanced A/C conditioner (like Dodd, BPT, Equitech, Furman or a DIY version)-> Your equipment. You can buy the Balanced A/C conditioner used on the market.

This should really provide state of the art power conditioning with safety measures built in. You can just stop there and you'll be way ahead imho.

Best,
Anand.

Anand,

You are spot on!

In my setup, I go dedicated 20 amp line with a pair Oyaide outlets -> Uber Buss -> Furman IT Ref 20i balanced power conditioner -> Kaplan Cable Conditioner cords -> Equipment

While it might seem like using all these pieces is over the top or redundant, I can assure everybody that it absolutely isn't!  This combination produces the best possible sound in my system - to my ears, this is an example where 1+1+1+1 = 10!!! 

For those who are local to me, ping me and I will happily demo the system and you can hear for yourself what each piece of the chain does.

George

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #15 on: 5 Sep 2009, 04:12 pm »
I am confused with power conditioning and protection of the audio equipment. I hear about people perferring to plug into the wall, but what about surge protection? Does a Bus protect my equipment or are we to add the Bus to voltage protection?? Isnt surge protection the more important element??
We have lighting storms and loss of electricty often here in Austin.

Hi!

No, I don't think the Majibuss has any fuse or any protection devices at all. Its not in the spirit of the product as it really provides completely uninterrupted flow of current to your equipment. My recommendation and what I'll be doing is this:

AC Outlet -> Majibuss -> Balanced A/C conditioner (like Dodd, BPT, Equitech, Furman or a DIY version)-> Your equipment. You can buy the Balanced A/C conditioner used on the market.

This should really provide state of the art power conditioning with safety measures built in. You can just stop there and you'll be way ahead imho.

Best,
Anand.

Anand,

You are spot on!

In my setup, I go dedicated 20 amp line with a pair Oyaide outlets -> Uber Buss -> Furman IT Ref 20i balanced power conditioner -> Kaplan Cable Conditioner cords -> Equipment

While it might seem like using all these pieces is over the top or redundant, I can assure everybody that it absolutely isn't!  This combination produces the best possible sound in my system - to my ears, this is an example where 1+1+1+1 = 10!!! 

For those who are local to me, ping me and I will happily demo the system and you can hear for yourself what each piece of the chain does.

George

No sir, YOU are spot on!

This will be my setup (a little more budget than yours):

15 amp line w/Porter Ports AC outlet -> Kaplan Power cord ->Majibuss (w/Porter Ports & Furutech IEC) -> Two BPT-1's -> Digital & Analog equipment separately to each BPT-1. And as many Kaplan and/or VH Audio Flavor 4 power cords that I can afford.

Best,

Anand.

P.S. As Zybar has shown, even with a DEDICATED 20 amp line coming into his audio room, there are benefits to filtration. I don't have a dedicated 15 amp line at the moment, its shared amongst all the equipment in my house so there is probably even more benefit. Having auditioned the Majibuss, it clearly provides improvements in almost all areas. It is also extremely sensitive of the type or build of power cord you use. I tried VH Audio Flavor 4, the Electra power cord that was supplied with the unit, and a Bob Crump DIY Asylum cord, and the VH Audio Flavor 4 was the best combination in MY system. I imagine the Kaplan will be just as good if not better. The Electra was excellent, however, even after extensive break in, I didn't find it as analog sounding in my system as the Flavor 4. I'm sure in a different system or with a shielded version of the Electra cable things would be different. The build quality with Oyaide plugs is excellent. The price is fair.  :thumb: As far as the Majibuss, you can clearly see that Dave spent the money on what is INSIDE the product. It is pretty bland on the outside but it completely fits the purpose. A decent MDF enclosure is really all you need. I'm having Dave custom build me a Majibuss very soon.


dBe

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #16 on: 5 Sep 2009, 07:53 pm »
I am confused with power conditioning and protection of the audio equipment. I hear about people perferring to plug into the wall, but what about surge protection? Does a Bus protect my equipment or are we to add the Bus to voltage protection?? Isnt surge protection the more important element??
We have lighting storms and loss of electricty often here in Austin.

Hi!

No, I don't think the Majibuss has any fuse or any protection devices at all. Its not in the spirit of the product as it really provides completely uninterrupted flow of current to your equipment. My recommendation and what I'll be doing is this:

AC Outlet -> Majibuss -> Balanced A/C conditioner (like Dodd, BPT, Equitech, Furman or a DIY version)-> Your equipment. You can buy the Balanced A/C conditioner used on the market.

This should really provide state of the art power conditioning with safety measures built in. You can just stop there and you'll be way ahead imho.

Best,
Anand.

Anand,

You are spot on!

In my setup, I go dedicated 20 amp line with a pair Oyaide outlets -> Uber Buss -> Furman IT Ref 20i balanced power conditioner -> Kaplan Cable Conditioner cords -> Equipment

While it might seem like using all these pieces is over the top or redundant, I can assure everybody that it absolutely isn't!  This combination produces the best possible sound in my system - to my ears, this is an example where 1+1+1+1 = 10!!! 

For those who are local to me, ping me and I will happily demo the system and you can hear for yourself what each piece of the chain does.

George

No sir, YOU are spot on!

This will be my setup (a little more budget than yours):

15 amp line w/Porter Ports AC outlet -> Kaplan Power cord ->Majibuss (w/Porter Ports & Furutech IEC) -> Two BPT-1's -> Digital & Analog equipment separately to each BPT-1. And as many Kaplan and/or VH Audio Flavor 4 power cords that I can afford.

Best,

Anand.

P.S. As Zybar has shown, even with a DEDICATED 20 amp line coming into his audio room, there are benefits to filtration. I don't have a dedicated 15 amp line at the moment, its shared amongst all the equipment in my house so there is probably even more benefit. Having auditioned the Majibuss, it clearly provides improvements in almost all areas. It is also extremely sensitive of the type or build of power cord you use. I tried VH Audio Flavor 4, the Electra power cord that was supplied with the unit, and a Bob Crump DIY Asylum cord, and the VH Audio Flavor 4 was the best combination in MY system. I imagine the Kaplan will be just as good if not better. The Electra was excellent, however, even after extensive break in, I didn't find it as analog sounding in my system as the Flavor 4. I'm sure in a different system or with a shielded version of the Electra cable things would be different. The build quality with Oyaide plugs is excellent. The price is fair.  :thumb: As far as the Majibuss, you can clearly see that Dave spent the money on what is INSIDE the product. It is pretty bland on the outside but it completely fits the purpose. A decent MDF enclosure is really all you need. I'm having Dave custom build me a Majibuss very soon.
Pretty much everyone is on the money...er, spot in these last few posts.  The BUSS series was designed to be the most bang for the buck, yen, gilder, kroner (your money, here) that I could produce without cutting corners on essentials in a milquetoast enclosure.  The enclosure is actually made from steamed european beech, not MDF, for it's inherent toughness and ease of working and finishing.  I can do any stained finish that people want on the beech, but it seems that people prefer performance over looks.  I certainly do.

The choices that I made were all for $$$ value WITHOUT compromising performance.  I chose the Leviton after listening to all of the available quad outlets.  The Hubbell did not sound as good as the Leviton, yet was 4 times the price.  Some of the internals are very reasonable in cost, but out performed the higher priced components in this application.

I did not consider surge protection for this unit because the ONLY TVS that I consider worthwhile is non-sacrificial whole house protection.  The local protection that I often see used is inconsequential when used as lightning arrestors.. AFAIK (for sure) is that the $1,000,000.00 policies that are mentioned in advertising for some TVS products do not cover arc over from a lightning strike.  This is catastrophic by nature and excluded from the coverage.  I had an acquaintance that tried to get an unamed company to payoff on their guarantee and that is what he was told.

MOV's used in 99% of the available surge protectors and outlet strips are less than worthless when it comes to audio usage - the begin to generate noise after just a few hits and sit there and rattle at about 30KHz - this is a BAD thing when it comes to HF clarity.  I will never use an MOV in any product.  I am working on a hybrid crowbar arrestor, but I can't seem to get it to be sonically neutral (for reasonable $$$) and will not bring it to market until I do.

Don't forget: I will do ANY REASONABLE custom request for very reasonble surcharges.  Just let me know what you want and I'll figure out a cost.

FWIW - the power chain in my system flows as follows -
Service entry > dedicated circuits > Pass & Seymour 5262 extra heavy duty wall receptacle > Topaz 2.5kVA ultra isolation transformer > UberBUSS > the Uber supplies my Cary CAD572SE MkII monoblocks from the 'A' circuit and a PS Audio P300 MWII (modified) which then drives the modified Cary SLP50B preamp and Cary 306-200 CD player.  This is the configuration that sounds the best in my system.  I encourage users to determine the final location of any of the BUSS series filters by listening .  In some system the placement before or after an isolation TX will sound different depending on order of the units.  What sounds the best IS the best.

Thanks to all of you that coninue to send me letters and emails about your incredible satisfaction of the BUSS units.

Dave

dBe

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I can explain the "wire is just wire" mindset...
« Reply #17 on: 5 Sep 2009, 11:12 pm »
So where are all the skeptics and nay sayers when the free demo offer comes along? Where are all of the wire is just wire guys? I think some of you guys are really missing out here. You have nothing to loose but a little shipping cost. Come on guys. A free demo!

and that is it: a mindset.  A blind, "I know everything, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, there is to know about electricity (I plug stuff into the wall and it works, it is 120V or so and copper is just copper) and anyone that says I don't is a moron!"... mindset.  The EE guys are the worst because they have a degree (so do I, but that is not relevant to this little rant) and know, in the hearts, that A/C is just power and nothing else.  If that were true it would be a beautiful thing except that I would not have a business. Fortunately for me, that is not the case.

99% of the "wire is wire" guys are simply too smart for their own good, negating any possibility of finding out just how much more there is to learn about in all of this that we call high(ish)end audio.  Some people just want to quit acquiring knowledge because either (A) their brain is full, or (B) they are convinced that they have acheived audio satori.  I'm just glad that I am stupid enough to want to continue figuring out what makes all of this stuff tick.  I'll probably die at the bench with a DUT in front of me.

Dave


konut

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Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #18 on: 6 Sep 2009, 12:46 am »
I've never been a wire is just wire guy, but I've always been a money is money guy. While I can justify a $2000 DAC, that I only paid $1500 for, and $2600 speakers, that I only paid $1500 for, I find it hard to justify spending $595 for an accessory especially when my mono-block amps were less than $500, total. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the Majibuss is worth every penny of its asking price, but not all of us can afford the luxury of $595 power conditioners. I do own a PurePower AV 60, retail $600, that I paid $220 for. Hey, I'm cheap.  :dunno:

Jon L

Re: Where are the wire is just wire guys?
« Reply #19 on: 6 Sep 2009, 01:12 am »
but not all of us can afford the luxury of $595 power conditioners. I do own a PurePower AV 60, retail $600, that I paid $220 for. Hey, I'm cheap.  :dunno:

Ha, that's the kind of math I like.  I'm personally having great results with a sub $200 eBay purchase of "on-line double conversion" power regenerator that I modified a little to make it quieter with a quiet fan.

I'm sure BUSS is worth the price, but there are certainly more than one way to skin the power cat IMO  aa