[cloudbaseracer]

I currently have the EP CS2 speakers being power by two Panasonic receivers.  I am looking to get more out of my current set-up.  I may be upgrading to the Emerald Physics CS2.3 very soon so all of this discussion should be in consideration of either of these 2 speakers.

Many people have praised the Panasonic SA-XR700 receivers running in all digital like I currently have set up.  I however believe I can get more out of my system so I ask the question......

What would be the best way to go to bi-amp these speakers and get "more" music.  This means a very noticeable improvement in all areas.  I specifically feel like the current amps get a little muddy at higher volumes and in the mid bass area.  Just my non-professional opinion.  I have never heard another pair of the Emerald Physics speakers so my comparative experience is zero.

The thing I like about the current configuration is that I do not have a DAC nor do I have a pre-amp.  All of this is happening in the receiver as the Behringer is modified to pass through the digital input from either the Squeezebox Duet or the CD player digital out.  I have this selector switch http://www.inday.com/da4x/da4x.htm  to choose between the CD player or the Squeezebox so it may be considered as a type of pre-amp?  I also like the cool running low energy requirement of the Panasonic.  This would be somewhat congruent with other Class D gear I would presume. 

So, does anyone have an opinion as to which would be a better way to go?  With the Virtue, I would get the top of the line system with the best power supply.  Not sure if that is the Virtue Two or the Sensation?  For the Wyred 4 Sound I am looking at the separates that Walter with Underwood Hifi is currently suggestion along with their new pre-amp.  Walter says that the separates are better than the  multi-channel with 4 amps in one chassis.  With the Odyssey I would be looking for some highly upgraded components of the Stratos/Kismet order but in a Khartago Chassis. 

Of course, each representative says that their respective product would trounce the other but.....

As you can see, this could end up being almost a complete system re-do; especially with the upgrade to the CS2.3.  The cost difference between the Virtue products and the other two seem to be substantial.  Cost is not my main concern but if I can get the same or better performance for less it would be a no-brainer!


Thoughts Please!!


James

 

[Paul_Bui]

Another option is to have your receivers modified.  You know, better parts, shorter signal path, better internal wiring (if there's any), beefier power supply.

The convenience of an all digital setup is very attractive and might be too tough to pass.

[cloudbaseracer]

Another option is to have your receivers modified.  You know, better parts, shorter signal path, better internal wiring (if there's any), beefier power supply.

The convenience of an all digital setup is very attractive and might be too tough to pass.

Paul,

Thanks for this suggestion.  I had thought about this initially but worry that I am throwing good money after bad and would not really see as big of an improvement as I would with a complete amplifier change.

Do you have any experience with the Panasonic?  My problem is that I do not really know how good or bad they sound.  Never heard them with anything else or the CS2's driven any other way.  Heck, they may be better than what i would get from any of the above configurations.

Are the Wyred 4 Sound and/or the Virtue considered all digital?  I do not believe that they are so a AC would be required.  It is a lot of gear to bring in just to see if it will be an improvement.  How big of a jump can i get from upgrading the Panasonic?

Thanks,

James

[Rocket]

Hi James,

Do you have an opportunity to listen to these amplifiers in your system?  How efficient are the speakers that you are using at the moment?

The virtue 2 is about 50 watts per channel or thereabouts.  The wyred 4 sound and odyssey amplifiers are rated a bit higher so it really depends on how efficient your speakers are.

It sounds like you are going with well reviewed products.  I have dealt with Walter a couple of times and he is honest with his advice.

Good luck.

Regards

Rod

[cloudbaseracer]

Rod,

I guess I could buy/borrow the different amps I am looking into and do some comparative tests.  I am sure that would be the most "accurate" way to choose but it would take a lot of time and effort.  At this point I am just looking for some direction.  The CS2 and the CS2.3 speakers are said to be very efficient but I still think there is no substitution for power. I believe the Emerald Physics prefer some good juice on the bottom end- Walter says 250 or even 500 watts from the Wyred is a good set-up and suggests the 125 watt stereo for the waveguide.  I thought the Virtue is more like 90 or 130 watts with an upgraded power supply? 

You bring me to an interesting question: Curious as to whether a 100 watts of ICE power is comparable to 100 watts of Tri-path?  Some say that the Tri-path chips have the "best sound", more open, and tube like with excellent bass.  Can anyone confirm the differences?


James

[Rocket]

Hi,

Seth has announced some new products that might be on interest to you.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71115.0

I'm hoping to buy a really good amplifier from Walter in the next couple of months.  I'm looking at Spread Spectrum Technologies, modwright or Bel canto. 

I've heard a bel canto tripath amplifier and an icepower version.  Icepower amplifiers sound very clean with a lot of power but I prefer the sound of tripath a little better because it is a bit more tubey imo.  Walter has offered me some pretty good deals and I've been swaying between the two for a month or so.  In past I've bought a dac and amplifier from Walter.

Best of luck.

Regards

Rod

[timind]

As to the tripath vs ice amps. I owned the Bel Canto eVo2i which is a tripath amp rated at 120 watts @ 8 ohms and am currently using two of the PS Audio Trio A-100 ice amps rated  at 100 watts @ 8 ohms. When I first started using the Bel Canto eVo amp I thought it was wonderful, still do actually but thought I'd go with the newer ice amp. My PS Audio amps are fronted by a Bel Canto Pre-3 running fully balanced from source to amps. Also the system is now bi-amped.
I much prefer these ice amps to the tripath. Cleaner, clearer, better defined soundstage. I can't think of one parameter where the tripath is better. Like I say, I am bi-amping now and that could be a large part of it.
Tube like? Don't really know as Idon't own a tube amp. Bought one at the beginning of this summer out of curiosity but didn't like the way it heated up my room. Leads to one of the things I like about the ice amps. On all the time, draw little current and stay cool.
My suggestion is to purchase a used ice amp of suitable power output and give it a try. If you don't like it you can resell it.

[zybar]

Rod,

I guess I could buy/borrow the different amps I am looking into and do some comparative tests.  I am sure that would be the most "accurate" way to choose but it would take a lot of time and effort.  At this point I am just looking for some direction.  The CS2 and the CS2.3 speakers are said to be very efficient but I still think there is no substitution for power. I believe the Emerald Physics prefer some good juice on the bottom end- Walter says 250 or even 500 watts from the Wyred is a good set-up and suggests the 125 watt stereo for the waveguide.  I thought the Virtue is more like 90 or 130 watts with an upgraded power supply? 

You bring me to an interesting question: Curious as to whether a 100 watts of ICE power is comparable to 100 watts of Tri-path?  Some say that the Tri-path chips have the "best sound", more open, and tube like with excellent bass.  Can anyone confirm the differences?


James

James,

Here is where I disagree with Walter and even Clayton a bit...

I tried tons of different amps on the CS2 woofers and the best sounding one was a tube amp!!  The Atma-Sphere MA-1's were far and away my favorite amp on the woofers.  I tried amps from Pass, Spectron, Parasound, Bel Canto, and none of them could get things right the way the MA-1's did.  Now in fairness, the MA-1's are significantly more expensive than all the other amps, so you probably need to keep that in mind.

However, I also successfully used a McAlister PP-150 and Bella Extreme 100 tube amps on the woofers.


Best of luck.

George

[dweekie]

I wouldn't get too caught up in any Tripath vs Icepower vs Hypex vs etc generalizations.  They will sound different based on implantation (just as no two EL34 amp will sound the same).  Comparisons should be made between specific products, as timind did, but generalizing the sound would be a mistake. 

[srclose]

Question for Zybar,

Any thoughts about the strength/weakness of the PP150? 

Stephen

[cloudbaseracer]

Question for Zybar,

Any thoughts about the strength/weakness of the PP150? 

Stephen

Stephen,

Is this a particular amp?  I am sorry that I am not familiar with this product or the name of the manufacturer.  Is this a product I should look into?

James

[lonewolfny42]

Question for Zybar,

Any thoughts about the strength/weakness of the PP150? 

Stephen

Stephen,

Is this a particular amp?  I am sorry that I am not familiar with this product or the name of the manufacturer.  Is this a product I should look into?

James

Here's a link for the McAlister amp....PP 150....

And a Stereomojo review...

[cloudbaseracer]

Hmmm,  I do not really have an interest at this time in a tube amp.  Absolutely nothing against them- I know they sound great.  I am just looking for low heat and high efficiency amps.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

James

[zybar]

Question for Zybar,

Any thoughts about the strength/weakness of the PP150? 

Stephen

Stephen,

Is this a particular amp?  I am sorry that I am not familiar with this product or the name of the manufacturer.  Is this a product I should look into?

James

Here's a link for the McAlister amp....PP 150....

And a Stereomojo review...

I am pretty much in agreement with the reviews.

George

[Woodsy]

Looking for a bit of guidance! I am building a new house and am adding a new Pioneer pro Elite and 5.1. After searching DSP and wave guide...GeddesLee and Emerald Physics, and being a new technology type of person, I have been contacted by Underwood Wally. He has RAVED about Wyred4Sound and EP CS2.3's and the new EP Center Channel for my master CAVE- 25'wX28'LX 10' high-dyna-matted and sound boarded.

Does anyone have actual experience with the format(s) I have described???

My comparisons with a B&W 803D 5.1 yield a fair price objective of $30,000 for the sound portion of the system I am trying to figure out. The W$S and EP work out to $6000 less and more power with only +-.5 Db spread versus 9 from the B&W Lexicon LS7 configuration.

I have also said F**** IT and am looking at the Revel Salon 2 5.1 for $23-$26,000 and build an amp/pre system from there.

Hopefully I have not made myself sound too ignorant.

Any guidance is appreciated!

Regards,
Tomass 

[TomS]

I've owned both the EP CS2's and now have the Geddes Abbeys.  Walter and Clayton are both very knowledgeable guys, but if it was strictly a home theater application I would no doubt go for the Geddes as they give you a lot of flexibility and output.  The open baffle speakers need to brought out into the room, which limits many HT situations due to the screen being up against a wall.  If you can place them behind an acoustically transparent screen with room to spare, that would certainly work out well. 

Earl Geddes' own HT is a pretty amazing demo of his technology and he is more than willing show it to potential customers.  When you are there, no speakers are even in sight, it looks rather modest, but it simply sounds amazing.  If I was spending that kind of money I'd want to hear it first either way for sure. 

Best of luck in your quest.

[Woodsy]

Thank You! You are not the first to elaborate on the Geddes! BUT! I am looking for someone that has the CS2.3's. Until then I toss and turn...LOL.
Thanks Again
Tomass!

[Woodsy]

Is the picture of your room or Geddes? Are the white panels sound baffling? What are the rears and Centre?
Thanks Again
T

[TomS]

I have a different room for HT, as that picture is my 2-channel only room.  The white panels are RealTraps room treatments.  If you're going to that much expense room treatment is a must though it doesn't have to be as obvious as mine if you're building from scratch.  There are very helpful and knowledgeable people on AC that can help here in the acoustics circle.  BPape (GIK) and Ethan Winer (RealTraps) are both experts in that business, do a great job, and post here frequently.  Seek out their advice, buy/use their products, and it will vastly improve your chances of having a great sounding HT.  I'd work on that before buying a lot of high end gear right off the bat.  You might find you don't need to spend quite so much and have cash available for other upgrades as well.

Tom