[95Dyna]

Oh sweet bliss… My Dead Can Dance SACD box set arrived today coinciding with the beginning of my vacation - it does not get any better than this.

Be well…

Ah yes, SACD's on the X-05.  Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaweeet

[werd]

The true reference for these comparisons is Vinyl. Being an excellent mastered recording to demostrate the reference.

The output of any cd deck or dac (with 16 or 24 bit rate)is considered not to be a true analogue signal. The signal is still fragmented and requires additional support from the dac to smooth out the digitized signal.
A 24 bit word lenght is better than a 16 bit length here. This is never mentioned in any of these comparisons and i believe it be the most underappreciated factor in cd playback

A full analogue recorded signal will eliminate the high freq hash and sound organic compared to a lesser cd bit playback. It will not fix any other component defiency regarding suitability in a personal system. Including noise, dyanmics, etc.

Full anologue signal, like a good TT is what cd playback is trying to approach. New generation dacs are resolving at 32 bit, I would say that 96/24 bit recording upsampled to 32 bit output is getting close to a full analogue output.

[Laundrew]

Ah yes, SACD's on the X-05.  Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaweeet

So true Bill

I am already at "Within the Realm of a Dying Sun" of the Dead Can Dance SACD box set, the music is simply haunting in this format. I have literally exhausted my cache of adjectives to accurately describe the performance of this system.

I was invited by a friend last week to go to an audition with him. He was always interested in a particular brand of audio equipment and if memory serves me correct, the price of this system was around the $40K range. When the demo started, I was truly surprised how “lifeless” this system was. I was watching my friend during the demo - he was sitting on the “comfy” leather chair located in the sweet spot and I could see by his expression that he was not enjoying the demo of his “dream system.”

When we were outside of the store, he told me that he was very disappointed with the performance of this audio equipment 

I mentioned that the B100/BCD-1 system that I want to purchase for my wife sounded superior to what he had just auditioned and suggested an audition with Bryston was in order.

Time will tell.

Be well…   

[alexone]

Laundrew,

do you know how many SACD albums are available? roundabout...

thanx,

al.

[Laundrew]

Laundrew,

do you know how many SACD albums are available? roundabout...

thanx,

al.

Hello al,

SACD availability will be directly related to the type of music that you enjoy. In my circumstance, I enjoy Gothic music and there is not a great selection available in SACD. I had to wait a very long time for my Dead Can Dance box set.
I am not sure about the availability of other music genres in SACD, perhaps other members can answer this question much better than I can. I do know that 95Dyna (in this circle) also enjoys SACD - perhaps he can shed more light than I can on this subject for you.

I am sorry I could not be more help to you.

 

Be well…

[Phil A]

http://www.sa-cd.net/home - about 6,300 released as of today - some things, however, are out-of-print

[alexone]

ok- thanks Laundrew and Phil.

al.

[95Dyna]

ok- thanks Laundrew and Phil.

al.

Hi Alex,

I am much into classical, jazz, jazz fusion, latin jazz fusion, classic rock (I grew up in the late 60's early 70's) however I like all kinds of stuff.  Classical and Jazz varieties are the best populated SACD genres.  I was in my mid 30's when the CD arrived en masse.  I'm now laughing as to how CD was presented and sold back then as the antidote for the miseries of vinyl.  The laws of physics tell me that was a crock in retrospect so I am going to buy all new analog stuff to revisit my pre CD collection and will buy new vinyl when there is something I like that is not avaialble on SACD.  I am encouraged by the recent release of all the Credence Cleartwater Revival albums on SACD for a classic rock example and there are quite a few others of this genre available.  Phil seems to have a handle on the total number of titles available.  So, for me, it will be SACD, vinyl and a large legacy CD collection mixed in with some FM radio as my sources for now.  I have to tell you that the sound of the SACD format on my Esoteric X-05 is just unbelievable especially in terms of imaging and frequency extension at both ends.  It is easy to tell the difference between the SACD and the CD layer on a hybrid disc and don't get me wrong, the CD layers sound quite good too.

Bill

[alexone]

Hi Alex,

I am much into classical, jazz, jazz fusion, latin jazz fusion, classic rock (I grew up in the late 60's early 70's) however I like all kinds of stuff.  Classical and Jazz varieties are the best populated SACD genres.  I was in my mid 30's when the CD arrived en masse.  I'm now laughing as to how CD was presented and sold back then as the antidote for the miseries of vinyl.  The laws of physics tell me that was a crock in retrospect so I am going to buy all new analog stuff to revisit my pre CD collection and will buy new vinyl when there is something I like that is not avaialble on SACD.  I am encouraged by the recent release of all the Credence Cleartwater Revival albums on SACD for a classic rock example and there are quite a few others of this genre available.  Phil seems to have a handle on the total number of titles available.  So, for me, it will be SACD, vinyl and a large legacy CD collection mixed in with some FM radio as my sources for now.  I have to tell you that the sound of the SACD format on my Esoteric X-05 is just unbelievable especially in terms of imaging and frequency extension at both ends.  It is easy to tell the difference between the SACD and the CD layer on a hybrid disc and don't get me wrong, the CD layers sound quite good too.

Bill

hi, Bill!

didn't know that CCR is available on SACD now. cool! i still have a Pioneer DVD player which is able to play SACD and DVD Audio. i've never tried these two formats that much due to the prices of a disc. so i finally bought only one SACD  . but you are right here- the sound of a SACD is very smooth .seems that the prices went down in the meantime. maybe i should give it another try?!

al.

[Laundrew]

hi, Bill!

didn't know that CCR is available on SACD now. cool! i still have a Pioneer DVD player which is able to play SACD and DVD Audio. i've never tried these two formats that much due to the prices of a disc. so i finally bought only one SACD  . but you are right here- the sound of a SACD is very smooth .seems that the prices went down in the meantime. maybe i should give it another try?!

al.

Hi al,

SACD prices seem more reasonable now. My Dead Can Dance box set of 9 SACDs was $312.00 (plus 13% sales tax).

Be well…

[95Dyna]

Hi al,

SACD prices seem more reasonable now. My Dead Can Dance box set of 9 SACDs was $312.00 (plus 13% sales tax).

Be well…

I bought an Esoteric produced SACD recently for $50.00 and one from Chesky Records for $15.00.  They generally run in the $20-$30.00 US range.  The aforementioned CCR specially packaged box set of all the original LP's on SACD is $250.00.  But, as we are observing here, they are really worth a few extra bucks.  No muss or fuss, you get high resolution everytime.  I can feel my blood pressure go up everytime I read one of those 7 paragraph posts explaining the process someone engaged in to get to "almost but not sure " CD quality from a downloaded source.  To each his own.  It's not my cup of tea at the moment.  My "almost but not sure" CD quality source is FM radio and it won't take me 7 paragraphs to explain how I get it there.

[ted_b]

But, as we are observing here, they are really worth a few extra bucks.  No muss or fuss, you get 196/24 everytime. 

First, I will say again:  Dunno why this SACD discussion is on a Bryston Circle and not over on (my  ) HiRez Circle.  We chat about SACD over there all the time.

Second, the above quote is inaccurate.  SACD (DSD) process is not 24/192k (and not referred to as the typo 196/24 as above...196k is not a sample rate) but a one-bit process that has a sample rate of about 2.822 megahertz (i.e about 15x of 192k) and is typically PCM-downsampled (when using players that have no DSD analog or HDMi 1.2 bitstream capability) to an even integer rate like 24/88.2 or 24/176.4.  But as DSD it ain't "196/24 everytime" at all. 

Finally, the Steve Hoffman mastered CCR SACD's are available as individual discs, too.  My fave of the collection, both musically and sonically improved,  are "Willy and the Poor Boys" and "Cosmos Factory". 

[95Dyna]

First, I will say again:  Dunno why this SACD discussion is on a Bryston Circle and not over on (my  ) HiRez Circle.  We chat about SACD over there all the time.

Second, the above quote is inaccurate.  SACD (DSD) process is not 24/192k (and not referred to as the typo 196/24 as above...196k is not a sample rate) but a one-bit process that has a sample rate of about 2.822 megahertz (i.e about 15x of 192k) and is typically PCM-downsampled (when using players that have no DSD analog or HDMi 1.2 bitstream capability) to an even integer rate like 24/88.2 or 24/176.4.  But as DSD it ain't "196/24 everytime" at all. 

Finally, the Steve Hoffman mastered CCR SACD's are available as individual discs, too.  My fave of the collection, both musically and sonically improved,  are "Willy and the Poor Boys" and "Cosmos Factory".

Hi Ted,

Yes, the 196 was a typo as I realize 196 is not a sample rate.  I did correct it to 192 before you brought it to my attention.  I'm not as knowledgeable as you are on the nits and nats of DSD so I stand corrected on the 192/24 comment.  I will say, however, that the spirit of my comment was that I personally enjoy the SACD format tremendously and don't wish to get bogged down into the math and physics of how it works.  It's kind of like when my wife asks me why I don't give contacs a try I reply that I don't mind wearing glasses bad enough to put up with that process daily.  Again, just my personal preference as I certainly understand and appreciate that others might feel differently as even I might at some other time in the future.

The reason this thread is here is because James Tanner posted a lengthly article on the subject and it naturally spawned multiple discussions in its wake.  James is now the moderator of this circle so you could take it up with him.

I was going to modify my post with that very point that the CCR SACD's are available individually much like the Beatles remasters.  Cosmo's is one of my favs as well.  It's hard to pick just one though, isn't it.

Thanks for bringing my error to my attention, Ted.

Regards,

Bill

[Laundrew]

I managed to listen to the last SACD in my Dead Can Dance box set collection - what a wonderful experience and it was definitely worth the extra purchase price of this set.

Oh sweet bliss.

Be well… 

[95Dyna]

I managed to listen to the last SACD in my Dead Can Dance box set collection - what a wonderful experience and it was definitely worth the extra purchase price of this set.

Oh sweet bliss.

Be well…

Hi Andy,

Did you try switching between the SACD 2 Channel and the CD play areas to see if you could detect a difference.  It's quite easy to do on the X-05.  So far to me the SACD has better imaging, extends the high and low frequency and just sounds fuller.  I didn't have to strain to hear the differences.

Bill

[turkey]

best populated SACD genres.  I was in my mid 30's when the CD arrived en masse.  I'm now laughing as to how CD was presented and sold back then as the antidote for the miseries of vinyl.  The laws of physics tell me that was a crock in retrospect so I am going to buy all

It was a huge improvement over the LP record. What laws of physics are you referring to?

in with some FM radio as my sources for now.  I have to tell you that the sound of the SACD format on my Esoteric X-05 is just unbelievable especially in terms of imaging and frequency extension at both ends.  It is easy to tell the difference between the SACD and the CD layer on a hybrid disc and don't get me wrong, the CD layers sound quite good too.

I have listened to the same recording in both formats and heard no difference. I also still know a few people in the record biz, and they assure me that no greater care is taken with SACD than with CD.

The true promise of SACD was that it would allow for multi-channel recordings so we could have a more immersive experience with more of a sense of the original room. That really hasn't happened. Instead, they have been trying to sell SACD as an improved stereo medium over CD.

[turkey]

Hi Andy,

Did you try switching between the SACD 2 Channel and the CD play areas to see if you could detect a difference.  It's quite easy to do on the X-05.  So far to me the SACD has better imaging, extends the high and low frequency and just sounds fuller.  I didn't have to strain to hear the differences.

Bill

And you can do this without knowing which is which? In other words, during a double blind test.

[ted_b]

No offense, but if you can't hear the differences between a good SACD 2 channel layer and it's redbook layer then something else in your signal chain is bottlenecking it.  The differences in most 2 channel SACD is astounding; I would gladly take a $1000 double blind bet on my system.

[Laundrew]

Hi Andy,

Did you try switching between the SACD 2 Channel and the CD play areas to see if you could detect a difference.  It's quite easy to do on the X-05.  So far to me the SACD has better imaging, extends the high and low frequency and just sounds fuller.  I didn't have to strain to hear the differences.

Bill

Hello Bill,

What function did you use to do this?

Thanks.

Be well...

[95Dyna]

And you can do this without knowing which is which? In other words, during a double blind test.

I haven't done a blind test.  It doesn't seem necessary to me.