[dgshtav]

I need some help with tool selection and wise words from the experienced as I will be starting with my first DIY speaker build and will be taking on the mighty LS-9s 

Though this is my first DIY speaker build, I am technically inclined and quite handy around the house. I have used power tools (miter saws, table saws, recip saws) before for various projects in the house though none of those projects involved precision work that speaker building would. But then I have also learnt to be patient with the tools.

I currently own the following (Items are URLs):
* 12 inch Makita Dual bevel compound sliding miter saw
* Dewalt Miter Saw Stand
* Dewalt table saw
* Freud 10? Blade (though I haven?t yet swapped out the default on the Dewalt)
* Porter Cable Palm sander
* Makita power drill
* Stanley Carpenter Square
* A Bosch Jigsaw

I believe I will need the following tools as well.
* Circular saw (Have this Milwaukee in mind but am open to recommendations)
* Guides/Fences for the circular saw - which ones?
* Plunge Router (Either this Hitachi or Milwaukee in mind but open )
* Router Bits ? Which ones? Size and body/edge material? I don't want to skimp here. I am also open to kits if the kits are a better value.
* Clamps (Planning on DIY wooden ones. Someone here had made these for relatively cheap)

If your experience recommends certain brands/models for the tools, please let me know.

At this point I am inclined to use the circular saw for the long cuts due to the limited table top area on the table saw. But that would mean buying a circular saw and any guides/fences. Should I even attempt using the table saw?

I would like to keep the budget for tools to about $300 to $500 between the circular saw, plunge router, guides and router bits.

Any other tools that I should be getting?

If anyone has a collection of links to DIY speaker build threads discussing tools and techniques, could you please share it with me?

Thanks,
Dinesh

[Christof]

Dinesh

Warning shameless plug follows.....

Where are you located?  You may or may not be interested but I have a Eureka Zone EZ Smart guide rail system with Porter Cable 724 Circ saw that I have replaced with a Festool system.  This guide rail has seen very little use.  If you are interested I will sell it very cheap...shoot me a PM.   

http://eurekazone.com/products/detail/sgs.html

[Voncarlos]

Hi Dinesh,

My opinion would be to forgo the Circular saw and make your rough cuts in the MDF with the Bosch Jigsaw. Bosch makes very good Jigsaws and if you set it to the aggressive cut option, it should cut through the MDF in very little time. Then run it through the Table saw to make your finish cut. I have a Bosch Jigsaw and it can produce cuts that don't even need to be cleaned up on the Jointer or T-saw.
Use good sharp blades, I use Bosch, but there are better more expensive ones out there.
I personally don't know any fine-woodworkers who use a Circular saw.
With all that said, I also realize that you may have limited space and that the size of the T-saw tabletop may limit your cuts. Can you add extension wings to the T-saw? Can you use the Miter saw stand as an infeed or outfeed stand?

I would suggest buying a long straight-edge or tool guide. The one I use, I bought 30 years ago from a flooring installers supply house. It's just a piece of flat steel 1/8th" by 4" by 6 feet. You could also just get something like that at a metal supply house, and then clean up the edges with a good bastard file. For me, I would never use a straight-edge and hand held saw for a finish cut, so my straight-edge doesn't need to be 100% true thru the entire length of the 6'.

You have a nice collection of tools to start with.

I wouldn't trust the Carpenter Square. It may be fine for construction work but I would run a series of truing tests to double check it.

The Freud Blade is a good all-around blade, just check it with a dial gauge to be sure it's true.
When a table saw is set-up correctly, it should produce a cut that is glass smooth and ready for glue up. I would also check the T-saw arbor to make sure it is true. I have yet to see a construction grade T-saw with an arbor that hasn't needed to be trued up a little.

I like your choice for the Hitachi router, I prefer more horsepower and the dual base. If your only buying to cut circles in MDF and general woodworking then the Milwaukee will do just fine. But if you'll be using it down-the-road on unknown projects then it never hurts to have that extra horsepower from the Hitachi. But as I said, the Milwaukee will do just fine and is a better price.
I cut my circles out with a 35 year old 1hp Black & Decker!

As far as router bits go, I don't like the kits, I never end up using most of the bits because they're too small. I buy them one at a time and have been very pleased with the ones I got from http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/.

Grizzly also has a very good selection of clamps. Check all the various woodworking suppliers for clamps, someone is bound to have a sale going on. Rockler, Peachtree, Grizzly, etc.

The one tool I would also suggest getting is a drafting triangle, similar to this http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=5384 or this http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=9402. I just pulled these up online to show an image and don't know anything about the mfg. It is invaluable for truing up your saw blades and cuts and drawings. But don't buy an inking one, an inking one has a bevel all around the edge and can allow a slight amount of wobble when using a pencil.

Keep your joints accurate. Any inaccuracy in the beginning will only be amplified as you work thru the box.

I think your on the right track when you said "I have also learnt to be patient with the tools".
Take your time, think it out, and be patient, and above all, be safe.

Good luck,

PS, I almost forgot, measure twice, and I'm not kidding!

Carlos

[fcraven]

If you intend to cut your own holes for the speakers, then you will benefit from a router, Plunge is quite useful. If you go for a Festool router, you will be giggling like a little girl. I have the very powerful, the now unavailable Fein router (3.something horsepower), but it's a little large for most speaker stuff, but it can do a 3/4" radius without a hickup.

You don't have to get a circular saw to rough cut, nor do you need a straight edge, a jig saw wil work if you clean up on the table saw.

But I have The Festool saw with which you can make finish cuts (with its guide), but more importantly, the dust collection will make you giggle like a little girl.

You will be building boxes, so all things square is good.
Make sure your table saw is square. if not then square it up.
A sharp blade is good, very good.

Dust collection is Real nice without it you may be coughing like a coal miner.

Buy Clamps
Then some more clamps
Oh, and don't forget the clamps
Then some clamps would be nice

Don't forget a soldering iron and a heat gun

[Danny Richie]

Hey Chris, What are you wanting for that thing?

[seaverd]

I bought the Eurekazone EZ circular saw guide, smart square and smart table a couple of weeks ago and used them on a paneling project at camp.  The system was great and I was most impressed with the antichip cut. I am anxious to use this system for other projects.  I am considering using this setup to make a pair of Neo 3 speakers.  I haven't tried cutting MDF yet with this system - has anyone else?

[Christof]

Hey Chris, What are you wanting for that thing?

$225 for the 100" guide rail kit with Porter Cable 324Mag saw.  The saw has only been used with the guide rail and maybe run for 30 minutes tops...always with a vac hooked to it.

Insert Quote
I bought the Eurekazone EZ circular saw guide, smart square and smart table a couple of weeks ago and used them on a paneling project at camp.  The system was great and I was most impressed with the antichip cut. I am anxious to use this system for other projects.  I am considering using this setup to make a pair of Neo 3 speakers.  I haven't tried cutting MDF yet with this system - has anyone else?

I've not used the table (bridge) system that Eureka has, it looks pretty well thought out, but the guide rail alone works great for breaking down mdf....I made one cut with my Dewalt circ saw and immediately went out and purchased a Porter Cable 324 with a dust collection port built in.  I hate coughing up MDF.

[sl_1800]

A couple of years ago I bought a Festool model 55 plunge circular saw with guide rails.  It is not cheap but it is an amazing saw, I can't image doing with out for speaker building.  It's like having a portable panel saw.

[Christof]

Clamp sale at Woodpecker

[Bob in St. Louis]

$225 for the 100" guide rail kit with Porter Cable 324Mag saw.  The saw has only been used with the guide rail and maybe run for 30 minutes tops...always with a vac hooked to it.

Although I don't own that particular guide, I do own the same model number saw.
Awesome, awesome, awesome piece of equipment. Of the woodworking tools I own, it's in the top three of my favorites.

I've got a cheapy $20 clamp on guide rail (8' long) from Home Depot that works great.
But the package together, the saw and the guide, sounds like a match made in heaven.

Regarding 7.25" circular saw blades, I get the $5 one's. When they show the first sign of wear, I toss them. They cut straight, true, don't burn the wood and are "light" with regard to leaving blade marks in the wood.

As far as clamps go, you can DIY the iron pipe version, or try the orange bar clamps like Home Depot sells. The only clamp I would NOT recommend, are the bar type that Sears sells, they suck badly. The one's with the big fat red handle. bad, bad....
For a super cheap clamp idea, you can buy a length of 4" PVC pipe. Cut it into various widths ranging from 1" to 4" wide. Then cut a slit in the piece with a jigsaw or miter saw. You can install the "C" shaped pieces all the way around a project for just a few dollars worth of pipe.

Don't forget, you'll like to have a small pneumatic brad nailer. Comes in real handy for speaker building. I've got a "Rigid" brand, again, from Home Depot.

How about an air compressor? Those will come in more handy than you could imagine. Of course, you'd need one if you get the pneumatic brad nailer I mentioned above.

A good plunge router with a Jasper circle cutting jig is a necessity for speaker building. About the only router bits you'll need for basic speaker building would be a 1/4" straight bit, and a flush trim bit. When it's time to get a little fancier, you can get the roundover and chamfer bits. Freud make good bits. But if you're new to the work of 'routing', you might want to have a surplus of cheap crappy bits. That way when you destroy one, you've lost $5 instead of $40.

That's about all I can think of right now. Hope that helps.
Bob

p.s. You'll need a decent camera to take pictures of all the speakers you build. 

[dgshtav]

Thanks for the tips and pointers everyone. Will check those out.

Keep them coming. 

[newportcycle]

I have a rather modest range of wood working tools but have found that quite satisfactory work can be done with them if I take my time and plan my steps.  I use an inexpensive Craftsman circular saw and a steel straight edge to cut all my panels, the first one I take extreme caution to cut to exact size, subsequent panels, I will cut 1/8 or a little more over size.  I then put them together with double sided tape and size them with a flush trim router bit, making them exact duplicates and squaring the edges nicely.  For baffles I use 1/4" mdf and make router templates, rough cutting the circles with a jig saw, then attach the router template and square up with my Craftsman "El Cheapo" with the flush trim bit, again taking the time to make the template as perfect as possible.  I also cut panels which "lap over" other panels, slightly over size, and trim them flush with the router, makes for the perfect edge.

Carlos is exactly right, MEASURE TWICE, this last weekend I spent quite a few hours puttng together a base cabinet for a pair of OB-7's, I cut a series of spacer blocs to aid with the installaition of the internal stiffeners, I negelicted to double check them after cutting and proceeded to glue up, patting myself on the back for being such a clever chap.  Next morning I clamped the front baffle router template to my perfectly square and very nice looking cabinet to find all the stiffeners in the wrong location, with the top stiffener only 1/4" from the bottom of the top woofer opening.  I did seek the advice of the designer who was nice enough to advise me it would probably be ok, but I believe I will do the cabinet over and make it right.

Good luck, post so photos when you get started, Im sure we all would like to see your work.

[dgshtav]

Question on clamps  -

Between the following, which ones are better -
http://www.grizzly.com/products/36-Heavy-Duty-F-Clamps/H2621
or
http://www.woodpeck.com/slidingarmclamp.html#1328

How do these work?
http://www.woodpeck.com/gs12pipeclamp.html

Do I get any 1/2" pipe (cut to desired length) from HD/Lowes and these slide over? Do the pipes need threads (I would think so at least on the locked end but not sure, may be tilt/lock in place)?

Any links to DIY pipe clamps?

- D

[Nick77]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37056

Good cheap pipe clamps, you just pick up threaded pipe at lumber store.

[Christof]

Question on clamps  -

Between the following, which ones are better -
http://www.grizzly.com/products/36-Heavy-Duty-F-Clamps/H2621
or
http://www.woodpeck.com/slidingarmclamp.html#1328

The German ones by a long shot.

[Voncarlos]

Hi Again Dinesh,
The questions you ask could have several answers depending on many variables. Are you buying these items for just this one project, a couple or many down-the-road? Are you trying to keep costs down a lot, a little, or $$$?

With regard to clamps, I like the F-style ones because of their greater throat depth. Pipeclamps are okay for gluing up large panels of stock but they are usually the last ones I grab. If your glue comes into contact with the iron pipe, it will leave permanent black stains on your wood. I also find them a bit heavy and unwieldy. You are correct with regards to how the pipeclamps work, one end has to be threaded for the screw, and the other just slips over the other end. As pressure is applied the slip-over piece wedges against the pipe. Most stores have pipe prethreaded in various sizes from 1" to several feet.

I also looked up the EurekaZone EZ systems that are mentioned in this thread and I was impressed. I knew about these various guide systems but had never investigated them thoroughly. I think that if I was just starting to collect tools, I would seriously consider this avenue, especially if one had limited space.
Something to remember, is that some of the finest furniture, musical instruments and general woodworkings where made hundreds of years ago long before motors or electricity. You could essentially build these boxes with just a hand saw, plane and drilling device. I love to work by hand alone, it's very peaceful and as I've said before,"almost Zen". Of course, it does take more time.

Carlos

[dgshtav]

Hi Again Dinesh,
The questions you ask could have several answers depending on many variables. Are you buying these items for just this one project, a couple or many down-the-road? Are you trying to keep costs down a lot, a little, or $$$?

Multiple projects (possibly beyond just speakers) over medium to long term. Personal as well as for friends.

Thoguh I would like to set and work within an appropriate budget, I am open to spend a bit more for quality. I would rather buy a good product once than buying cheap ones over and over. That said I would like to be just under that point of diminishing returns, that reference being left to the judgement of the experienced here.

With regard to clamps, I like the F-style ones because of their greater throat depth. Pipeclamps are okay for gluing up large panels of stock but they are usually the last ones I grab.

I guess I will get a mix.

For most average furniture projects, how good is the 2.5? throat size of the Besseys? coz. the F-clamps are a good 4.5, but many refer the Besseys.

I also looked up the EurekaZone EZ systems that are mentioned in this thread and I was impressed. I knew about these various guide systems but had never investigated them thoroughly. I think that if I was just starting to collect tools, I would seriously consider this avenue, especially if one had limited space.

I am seriously thinking of the rails (and buying Christof?s combo as his pricing has VALUE, STEAL written all over it). I guess I will see how much of a drain the other items are and then take it from there. Otherwise, I will just start with a guide and then finish on the T-saw.

Something to remember, is that some of the finest furniture, musical instruments and general woodworkings where made hundreds of years ago long before motors or electricity.

I agree 100%. It always amazes me. 

[dgshtav]

Anyone knows where to source Medite / Medite II or Rangerboard MDF in San Francisco Bay Area?

Was working with a Sierrapine distrbutor on getting a quote and after spending some time and effort with them, turns out that what they were quoting as Medite was really "basic" MDF.

Thought I will check here if anyone has experience in sourcing these in San Francisco bay area. Would save me time in chasing down the distributors (I have gotten smarter and have pinged the other 3 listed on SP's website simultaneously)

I'm open to other premium MDF recommendations as well. Any pointers welcome.

Doesn't have to be NAF MDF though NAF is preferred.

Thanks,
Dinesh

[BrianH]

I have used a lot of different clamps, this style is my favorite however.

http://www.justclamps.com/bar_clamps.htm#3083

Brand makes very little difference, I have  3 diff brands I think.

Something to consider anyway. Also keep in mind pretty much all long clamps will handle shorter pieces, the reverse is definitely not true. Whatever you get, get it long enough.

San Francisco area for wood of pretty much any sort find the nearest MacBeath Hardwoods they are a distribuitor for Medite as well as most everything else you could want.

Brian

[Hank]

dg, you're getting lots of good advice here.  I would advise you to forget pipe clamps and invest in what Brian advised:  parallel pro clamps - as he stated, there are several brands.  Truism:  a man can NEVER, EVER have too many clamps!  I would add band clamps to the list.  My favorite that I've been using for years is the Merle band clamp from MLCS Woodworking (also my router bit source):
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/merle_clamp.html
I use these on all cabinets - they help force a cabinet into square after glue application.  Also, don't waste time and money on screws or nails.  Accurate saw cuts will result in close mating surfaces and proper gluing will result in glue joints that are stronger than the wood.  For large cabinets, I do use a brad nailer to hold braces and panels in place while I apply clamps.

Quiz:  how many clamps are enough?