[PhilNYC]

DH is the ultimate form of mt. biking, IMO.    It makes xc riding seem like a walk in the park.

Also, it's not nearly as expensive as auto racing, so there is that...

If you're in CO send me an email. I know of few fun places to take the DH bike nearly year-round.

It's not "real mountain biking" if it doesn't include an uphill climb...

[DaveC113]

It's not "real mountain biking" if it doesn't include an uphill climb...

It's not called "uphilling" for a reason

DH requires a high level of physical conditioning just to be able to ride a dh bike on a dh trail. It takes a really strong and skilled rider to stay on the bike for more than 2-3 minutes at a time. It's the most demanding thing, both physically and mentally that I've ever done.

I love trail riding too, but for different reasons. 

[drphoto]

Dave, Really? 'dales were known to fail? I rode the crap out of this thing for at least 3 seasons w/ no problems. I'm NOT arguing w/ you, I'd just never heard there was an issue. Sure hate to scrap it, as it is full XT w/ a lot of upgrade parts. But of course, I don't want to end up in the hospital, especially as I work in one!

[DaveC113]

Dave, Really? 'dales were known to fail? I rode the crap out of this thing for at least 3 seasons w/ no problems. I'm NOT arguing w/ you, I'd just never heard there was an issue. Sure hate to scrap it, as it is full XT w/ a lot of upgrade parts. But of course, I don't want to end up in the hospital, especially as I work in one!

They did have some issues, some of their frames were pushing the limit of lightness. I don't know which frames in particular had issues, but I know it began somewhere around the early-mid 90's. The other issue with old alum. frames is that alum. has a finite fatigue life, so it will fail eventually, but the lifespan can vary greatly depending on how much it's stressed and how often. Putting a modern fork on an old, lightweight aluminum frame regardless of who made it isn't a good idea because it increases stress on the headtube, likely past what the mfg. originally designed it for. I'd save it for riding around town, and buy a newer bike for off road.

[James Romeyn]

Can't wait for the snow to melt on my trail (Bonneville Shoreline) in Cache Valley, north Utah...runs N-S about 1/3rd up from the base of the Wasatch Range, the northernmost range of the Rocky Mtns.

View of the trail from my backyard
 

View of Cache Valley and the Wellsville Mtns westward, from the trail, through the wildlife fence (actual view spans about 180 degrees N-S, my house is a bit N, Duke & Lori LeJeune live about 25 mins further N in ID)...wildlife are usually stuck on the canyon side E of the fence, but late last year a herd of about six deer including a few bucks with good points were on the W side of the fence (the city side) when I came barreling down the trail on the opposite/E/wildlife side of the fence...at first the deer ran anxiously just a few feet away on the other side of the fence, looking for an opening to get on my side and run up the canyon...not finding an opening they ran down the hill away from me...the sound was huge, the earth rumbling from their combined mass.  A real treat! 

 


Sold the full susp 26 for a nice Fuji HT 29er and will never go back to a 26 again (6-3, 235)

[PhilNYC]

It's not called "uphilling" for a reason

DH requires a high level of physical conditioning just to be able to ride a dh bike on a dh trail. It takes a really strong and skilled rider to stay on the bike for more than 2-3 minutes at a time. It's the most demanding thing, both physically and mentally that I've ever done.

I love trail riding too, but for different reasons.

I know DH is very demanding.  But imho, the "ultimate" form of mountain biking has to include the uphill....otherwise, how are you getting to the starting line of a downhill run? 

[Levi]

I am not sure about the skill set needed for DH.  90% the bike doing all the work for you. 

[jackman]

They did have some issues, some of their frames were pushing the limit of lightness. I don't know which frames in particular had issues, but I know it began somewhere around the early-mid 90's. The other issue with old alum. frames is that alum. has a finite fatigue life, so it will fail eventually, but the lifespan can vary greatly depending on how much it's stressed and how often. Putting a modern fork on an old, lightweight aluminum frame regardless of who made it isn't a good idea because it increases stress on the headtube, likely past what the mfg. originally designed it for. I'd save it for riding around town, and buy a newer bike for off road.

Hi Joe,

Dave's advice is very good.  They make headset adapters that will alow you to use a new fork on your old Cannondale (assuming you have one of those fat 1.5 headtubes) but the cost of a new fork and headset adapter will set you back about as much as you would pay for a decent bike on Craigslist or a good tradein at your LBS.  Plus you would be left with a new fork on an old frame made of aluminum which is known to crack after years of use.  Since you have decent parts, why not look for a good frame and fork and swap your parts?  You could probably sell your Cannondale frame and put the money towards the upgrade.  I saw a Gunnar (Waterford) steel frame on my local CL for under $300, with a decent fork. A good steel frame will last you a long time if you take steps to prevent rust. 

Lastly, do you have a 1 inch steerer or a 1.5"?  The 1 inch is old-school and you may be able to find a used fork that will work.  It will be short travel (which isn't a bad thing for your bike) and not modern but you may be able to find a decent replacement for cheap.  If it's 1.5 inch it's a different story.  Either way, I'd search for a good frame and fork and swap your parts (if your wheels, brakes, etc.) are in good shape and high quality.  I have an old Cannondale from the mid-90's with a Headshok and when it goes will probably switch to a 29'er. 

Cheers,

J

[PhilNYC]

Lastly, do you have a 1 inch steerer or a 1.5"?  The 1 inch is old-school and you may be able to find a used fork that will work.  It will be short travel (which isn't a bad thing for your bike) and not modern but you may be able to find a decent replacement for cheap.  If it's 1.5 inch it's a different story.  Either way, I'd search for a good frame and fork and swap your parts (if your wheels, brakes, etc.) are in good shape and high quality.  I have an old Cannondale from the mid-90's with a Headshok and when it goes will probably switch to a 29'er. 

Cheers,

J

FYI - my mtb is from the early 90s and needs a 1" steerer for the fork.  Have trolled around eBay and have found the occassional used fork with 1" steerer, but it has been a challenge to find one in good shape.  In addition to the 1" diameter, I have also needed it to be threaded, and support caliper brakes (it needs a cable-hanger). 

White Brothers offers all of its forks with 1" steerers, but not with a cable-hanger...so if you have V-brakes or disc brakes, they will work for you...

http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/

[jackman]

FYI - my mtb is from the early 90s and needs a 1" steerer for the fork.  Have trolled around eBay and have found the occassional used fork with 1" steerer, but it has been a challenge to find one in good shape.  In addition to the 1" diameter, I have also needed it to be threaded, and support caliper brakes (it needs a cable-hanger). 

White Brothers offers all of its forks with 1" steerers, but not with a cable-hanger...so if you have V-brakes or disc brakes, they will work for you...

http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/

Hi Phil, I love White Brothers gear, but, unless he finds a great deal on a used fork, don't know if it's worth putting a high $$$ fork on an old Cannondale.  I'd probably try to get someone to repair the old fork to squeeze a couple years out of it or buy a used bike.  There are lots of great used deals.  Maybe get a frame and fork and use his old components.  I'm on the lookout for something similar but may just get a cross bike instead.  I passed on some great cross bike deals (Lemond Poprad) and all of the ones I've seen recently are too high priced. 

Cheers,

J

PS - Can't wait until the weather gets warmer so I can start riding.  I'm going to ride a lot this year and may even get some custom wheels and a Powertap. 

[DaveC113]

Phil and Levi, go rent a dh bike and ride at a ski resort for a couple days and get back to me.     I can guarantee you a dh bike does not ride itsself. Trying to explain it is like trying to explain the difference between a Bose Lifestyle sub/sat system and a true hifi system to someone who has never heard anything better than Bose.

How to get to the top? Pedal, chairlift or shuttle vehicle (yes, you can pedal a dh bike uphill, it just takes more effort). Same way skiers and snowboarders get to the top...

[Rocket_Ronny]

I am not sure about the skill set needed for DH.  90% the bike doing all the work for you. 

Levi:

Did you watch the video clip? There is a tremendous amount of skill shown there. The rider is so talented and fluid that it looks easy.

Not to mention that at any time he could bite it hard. So now you have to factor in the mental component of conquering fear and building confidence, etc.

I would say that regular mountain biking can certainly be more cardio involved, esp. on big up hills, but make no mistake, when going hard core downhill, it's a work out, and not a small one. It's kind of like mogul skiing, or skate boarding in a bowl. A tremendous amount of leg compression and decompression.

Best of all, it's just such a blast. Well, until you smack a tree, or some rock. 

Pain is the initiation rite for DH.   

Even so, I still love cross country biking. Getting out in the bush on a bike. Love it. Riding a bike on pavement however, feels like being a city. And I don't like cities.


Rocket_Ronny

[Levi]

It is just like my XC video.  Those logs looks smooth isn't it.    I started as a BMX rider so I know to execute a big jump, skinnies, log rolls and such.

I saw the clip.  Not everyone has skill set and smooth as the guy on the clip.  You can enjoy DH without having such skills.  Just let the bike do 90% of the work.  For me, walking a DH bike is hard work.  Period.

[jackman]

Downhill riding is an absolute blast.  Unfortunately, being from IL doesn't afford any downhill runs unless I'm willing to get on a plane.  Years ago, I rented a bike in Colorado and did some downhill biking in Keystone.  The mid-level runs were nighmare scary for me and my group and extremely technically challenging.  Everyone in my group crashed but only one guy had to be taken to the hospital for broken ribs.  He was an inexperienced rider and had no business on the hill anyway!  Also, I still remember the pain of removing my bloody jersey after taking an endo on my first steep switchback!  Skidding down the steep rocky hill on my back.  Downhill provides lots of incentive to improve your technical riding ability. 

In my limited experience, downhill biking is not the best cardio workout but was the most technical, frightening and exciting biking I have ever done.  Like riding a dirtbike all day, you get a good workout-beating. I've gotten my road bike up to over 40+ mph but that was tame compared to flying down a steep mountain switchback on a DH specific bike.  You guys who live in areas where you can do this kind of biking are so lucky! 

All this bike talk is making me crazy.  Road cycling is a better workout than DH, and I'm getting too old for the beating I took rinding MTB crosscountry, but I really enjoy all kinds of biking and hope to do more of each kind this summer.  I can't wait until it's 40F (or at least high 30's) so I can get back out!  Riding a trainer is making me lose my mind.   

[ctviggen]

Even so, I still love cross country biking. Getting out in the bush on a bike. Love it. Riding a bike on pavement however, feels like being a city. And I don't like cities.


Rocket_Ronny

I used to mountain bike (cross country), but no longer.  It simply takes too long to find a suitable place to go in CT.  By the time I drive somewhere fun to go and drive back (not to mention pack, unpack, etc.), I can be done riding my racing bike on the pavement.  Typically, racing biking is as hard or harder (since I'm in a hilly area), but mountain biking is more fun.  Alas, I likely won't go mountain biking this year, as I have too much to do and can't take the extra time it takes.

[TomW16]

I am forced to be a cross country rider now that I live in Nebraska, which is not known for its mountains but I love to go downhill.  I suffer through the uphill climbs so that I can enjoy the downhill.  When I lived in Phoenix, I rode a trail called "National" and thought that there was no way that anyone could ride sections of it and then I saw some downhillers ride it.  I was in complete awe.

Does downhilling take skill to ride steep technical terrain?  I think so but what is required even more than skill, in my opinion, is guts.  I used to have it when I was younger but now I'll admire those who think that they are indestructable.

I ride a full suspension Special 98 Tomac and can't justify any more suspension than what I have.

Cheers,
Tom

[DaveC113]

Does downhilling take skill to ride steep technical terrain?  I think so but what is required even more than skill, in my opinion, is guts.  I used to have it when I was younger but now I'll admire those who think that they are indestructable.


Cheers,
Tom

There's typically only 3 degrees difference in head angle between a dh and trail bike, 1" lower bottom bracket, .5" longer chainstays, and 2-3" more suspension travel. This makes it more forgiving on steep terrain, but it's not going to ride its self down the hill. You still need the same skills and technique as any other mt. bike. Confidence comes from experience, and to ride a difficult dh trail you need a lot of practice, and need to progress from easier to more difficult riding gradually. To be able to ride terrain like that safely, you need to have a mental picture of exactly how your bike will behave and what path it will take well in advance of actually riding it. If you can't see the line and how to ride it, it's best to stop and scope it out until you feel confident you can pull it off, or you need to walk it.

Some of the more difficult dh trails will max out your heart rate and send large amounts of muscle mass into the anerobic realm within a couple minutes. More skills make it physically easier, but a difficult dh course at race speed is very physically demanding. We have some hills in CO that make the double diamond runs at Keystone seem easy, and will challenge your physical ability, skills, and mental toughness.

[ooheadsoo]

Somewhat OT but I didn't want to create a new thread.

I swapped out my mtb stubbies on my rockhopper 29er for some 1.5" semi-slicks.  Now, my bottom bracket is so low that I scrape my pedals going over speed bumps and I can only slightly turn before I need to raise my inside pedal.  I didn't expect this and it has really disappointed me.  I was really hoping to be able to use the super cheap $7 WTB semi-slicks.  Is there no decent way around this?  I originally wanted to outfit the bike with Schwalbe Big Apples but was turned off because of the price.  Do you guys think I could get away with using just one Big Apple on the rear?  Since the bottom bracket is much closer to the rear wheel, maybe that would provide enough clearance.

[PhilNYC]

Somewhat OT but I didn't want to create a new thread.

I swapped out my mtb stubbies on my rockhopper 29er for some 1.5" semi-slicks.  Now, my bottom bracket is so low that I scrape my pedals going over speed bumps and I can only slightly turn before I need to raise my inside pedal.  I didn't expect this and it has really disappointed me.  I was really hoping to be able to use the super cheap $7 WTB semi-slicks.  Is there no decent way around this?  I originally wanted to outfit the bike with Schwalbe Big Apples but was turned off because of the price.  Do you guys think I could get away with using just one Big Apple on the rear?  Since the bottom bracket is much closer to the rear wheel, maybe that would provide enough clearance.

That's really surprising...what kind of tires were you using before?  I'm very surprised that the profiles of the tires would be so different, and moreso that it would result in clearance issues.  How long are your cranks?  Are they the ones that came with the bike?

Using a tire with a taller profile in the back than in the front will change your geometry (ie. it will raise your seat and steepen your head and seat angles)...in essence, you might feel a little "leaned forward", especially if the difference in tire profile is as large as it sounds.

[Levi]

Something is really odd here with your clearance problem.  Make sure you have enough air in your shocks.  Decreasing the sag on your shocks will enable you to have higher bb height.  Changing your pedals proves helpfull.