[mountaineagle]

Dear Folks,

I am considering the above cartridge for the above deck and I keep reading conflicting opinions as to not only whether they create a good sound together but even whether the mass of the cartridge can work at all on the stock arm?

I have read that it will work on the technics cartridge shell ...I have read that it should be paired with a sumiko headshell ....and even a 18g Audio Technica AT-LH18? Whilst others say using such a cartridge on a technics stock arm will, in any event, gouge the records!

Can it work with a stock arm and shell, and if so, does it require the second counterweight that comes with a SL1210?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions ...most of all whether the cartridge and the stock arm work together as some say it is the best combination whilst others say it dosent work at all? 

[BikeWNC]

I'm currently using a Denon 103R on a SL1200 mkII.  I use the Sumiko headshell.  I think the extra weight makes a difference.  It does require the use of the extra counterweight to balance the weight of the cartridge itself.  I have no experience with the stylus gouging my records.  I have considered getting it re-tipped by SoundSmith but I might put that money towards a different cartridge instead. 

[mountaineagle]

BikeWNC,

How do you rate the sound with the 103R on the SL1210?

[BikeWNC]

I like it better than the Grado Gold I have but the phonostage will make the difference I think.  The Denon 103R requires a low load, I think I run it at 20 ohms?  Basically the lowest my pre will go.  I guess I could go with a step-up tranny and have considered that, but I'm not that great at soldering.  It tracks great on the SL1200 with the damper and stock arm.  I have it set at 58.8 and 113.5 null points.  I always had problems with the Grado Gold and tracking towards the end of the record. 

[Wayner]

Good you have it set to those null point's as they are the only null points a Technics can be set to and be corret.  aa

Wayner

[BikeWNC]

Good you have it set to those null point's as they are the only null points a Technics can be set to and be corret.  aa

Wayner

Yeah, I tried some other null points like 66 and 118 ?? I believe and never could get them to work.  The Denon tracks very well at the standard null points.

[chriss]

If you have not seen this already here is a link to a TNT review of the 1200 and one of the carts he uses is the Denon

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_e.html

[mountaineagle]

Thanks Chriss  ...I have read the article. I am a bit mixed up at the moment  ...as I want to buy a more expensive deck but there appears to be so much bull and I dont have the knowledge of TheChairGuy and Wayner et al to buy 2nd hand with confidence.

I am veering towards a Linn... ...who will save me?

[chriss]

Well, this may or may not help but I just bought a used 1200 mkII. It had been used in the mastering department at a duplicating company (no DJ nonsense)

I put the Benz Micro Glider from my VPI mark III on it.

Result?   Want buy my VPI

Yes I suppose the VPI is a bit more refined and yes may goal is to play music and not be a coinsure so this may not work for everyone.

Also, I have an 800.00 cart and it's running through an expensive pre (Bluenote Phono 1) so that's part of it.

Also, it is consistent with the rest of my system(NAD BEE 325 and Acoustic Energy Aegiss 2 speakers)

A lot of factors to consider but that is my recent experience. Please know also that I am not just jumping on the Giant Killer band wagon. I've seen to much of that. What the 1200 offers is competant reproduction, ease of use and durability.

Just a hint, if you go with the Techics, Guitar Center usually has 10 ? 15% coupons and you can order on line, or if your near one you could buy and try. If it doesn?t suit you return it.

[mountaineagle]

Thanks Chriss...I live in the Peak District of the north of England and, regrettably, audio dealers in the UK dont offer the competitive service you guys get in the States ..you wont see a coupon over here and a lot of dealers, in the Uk, I am sure liaise with each other to makes sure no-one undercuts each other.

A black Technics SL1210 Mk2 will cost you, best price new, over hear four hundred and fifty pounds. 

[AudioSoul]

   Lets see, How many posts do you have now concerning TT's and carts? Just buy something already. I have read what your other equipment is and the Technics will out class the rest of your system. At least get the SL 1200 and an inexpensive cart. You can always get a better one later. Start collecting vinyl and get use to the process first. You may not even like it........

[analognut]

Mountaineagle-
Keep on asking questions. This forum is here so that everyone may ask and learn! I know you're not wasting my time!

[mountaineagle]

Your both right! I am considering my options guys.

[AudioSoul]

   Lets see, How many posts do you have now concerning TT's and carts? Just buy something already. I have read what your other equipment is and the Technics will out class the rest of your system. At least get the SL 1200 and an inexpensive cart. You can always get a better one later. Start collecting vinyl and get use to the process first. You may not even like it........

My appologies Mountain Eagle for my above comments. I am a bit compulsive in my own decisions. Perhaps if I was like you I would'nt be buying and selling all of the time. I would get it right the first time

[directdriver]

I like it better than the Grado Gold I have but the phonostage will make the difference I think.  The Denon 103R requires a low load, I think I run it at 20 ohms?  Basically the lowest my pre will go.

What made you think you have to load the Denon THAT low?!  The internal impedance of the Denon is 40 ohms, typically you want to load it approximately 4 times or higher than that, preferably ten times. So anything between 100 ohms to 1000 ohm will be fine.  Some people plug straight into 47K and still get good result.  Just experiment.  But personally I think 20 ohm loading for the Denon is too low and will waste all the signal energy on driving the resistor. 

[BikeWNC]

I like it better than the Grado Gold I have but the phonostage will make the difference I think.  The Denon 103R requires a low load, I think I run it at 20 ohms?  Basically the lowest my pre will go.

What made you think you have to load the Denon THAT low?!  The internal impedance of the Denon is 40 ohms, typically you want to load it approximately 4 times or higher than that, preferably ten times. So anything between 100 ohms to 1000 ohm will be fine.  Some people plug straight into 47K and still get good result.  Just experiment.  But personally I think 20 ohm loading for the Denon is too low and will waste all the signal energy on driving the resistor.

I've tried all combination of loads for the 103R and found the lowest I have, 20 ohms works best in my system.  From what I've read, others seem to run this cartridge about the same.  The internal impedance of the 103R is 14 ohms while the standard 103 is 40 ohms.

Edit.  I'll take a look at the coding on the resistors again before I swear they are 20 ohms.  I'll get back on this.

[analognut]

Actually the DL-103R operating instructions state the load impedance should be 100 ohms minimum (40ohms if using a transformer).

I ran it at 100ohm on my Sota Star/SME V and the sound was just right to me. Others I know of also use 100ohms for this cart.   

[BikeWNC]

Ok, I took a flashlight to the dip switches inside the preamp and with my fading vision realized that I am running the 103R at 100 ohms.  My pre has 3 pairs of dip switches each tied to resistors of different values.  I can use any of the 3 in combination but I've found the 100 ohm works well by itself.  Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.