[DizzyT]

This past weekend, I had the chance to visit emac and listen to his various superb sound systems.  Out of all of them, I was thoroughly blown away by the O-3's.  I loved the room-filling sound, the clarity and imaging, and off-axis response.  The only other set of speakers that I have enough experience to compare them to are my MMGWs.  I love my Maggies, but the sweet spot is so extremely small that in practicality they are physically fatiguing to listen to without the use of a surgical halo.  My only comment about the O-3's was "Where can I get one?"

emac's response was, "There's a kit."  The DIYer in me was intrigued by the possibility of building my own set of O-3's.  After some reading, the pragmatist in me suggested that my lack of woodworking skills and tools was a large limiting factor.  I could buy a set pre-built or buy the cabinets, but the cheapskate in me was looking for some sort of compromise.

I understand that the O-3's don't necessarily need tower enclosures.  But what is the minimum size?  I see on the webpage for the M-130/16 woofer: "In an optimal ported enclosure for a pair is 1.15 cubic feet."  Would this also be the minimum recommended size for the O-3's?

This may be blasphemous, but I saw that PE sells cabinets, including a 1.0 cubic ft 22"H x 9"W x 13.5"D cabinet.  It looks like the drivers could be shoehorned into this enclosure.  It's smaller than 1.15 cubic ft though.  I'm not worried about sacrificing low end response, as I'll need a sub anyway, maybe a servo sub.   Another benefit is the cost.  If the cabinets work, great.  If not, they aren't that expensive.  I could scrap them and get a better enclosure when I have the means.  Any thoughts?

Second question.  Did anyone ever try the M-130X in the O-3's?  I saw in a previous posting:

When the shipment of the new M-130X with (XBL^ motor) gets here in a few weeks then I will try them as the rear woofer in the O-3 and see if there is a benefit.

I searched through the forum, but I didn't see any further mention of it.  I also don't see them offered as an option in the kit, so maybe there is no benefit to using them in the O-3's?

Thanks!

[Danny Richie]

First of all they don't use the 165 ohm woofers. If they did then one would cancel out the other in the off axis listening angle.

They use a pair of the M-130's in a very low crossover point three way design.

You can drop the M-130X in with no other modifications.

You can't use any of the PE boxes that I know of.

There are several here that will build you custom enclosures though.

[emac]

Ah, a convert.     Anyway, good to have you over this past weekend, Dizzy. 

Danny, what are your feelings about the M-130's vs the M-130X's in the O-3 design?  Pluses and minuses?  AKA is this a change that I should be considering? 

Thanks.

[Danny Richie]

It gives a little cleaner bottom end going with the X series woofers.

The only negative is that they cost a little more.

[DizzyT]

Danny, thank you so very much for the information and quick response.

First of all they don't use the 165 ohm woofers. If they did then one would cancel out the other in the off axis listening angle.

Right, right.  Sorry about the confusion.  I knew they were different drivers.  I was just trying make an extrapolation/comparison where it was inappropriate to do so.

It would be easier for me to construct and find a good location for a smaller cabinet.  I'm not sure if I'm doing the calculation correctly, but I come up with 1.158 cubic ft as the minimum volume for two M-130's in a ported cabinet.  Would this also be the smallest enclosure size for an O-3?

From what I've read, if the enclosure is too small then the cutoff frequency increases (F3) and low end performance is adversely affected.

They use a pair of the M-130's in a very low crossover point three way design.

I really appreciate the apparent simplicity and elegance of the design.  Each driver blends very well with the others, and they are very unassuming speakers that have a highly satisfying presence.

You can drop the M-130X in with no other modifications.

Okay, great!

You can't use any of the PE boxes that I know of.

There are several here that will build you custom enclosures though.

I'll have to think about the enclosure further.  May have to save my pennies or learn some woodworking.  Thank you very much for all of the information.  Very helpful!

Ah, a convert.     Anyway, good to have you over this past weekend, Dizzy.

emac, good seeing you as well.  Thanks for having me over!

Sorry about bringing up the M-130X drop-in replacement.  I suspect you may have another upgrade in your future.

[dvenardos]

emac's response was, "There's a kit."  The DIYer in me was intrigued by the possibility of building my own set of O-3's.  After some reading, the pragmatist in me suggested that my lack of woodworking skills and tools was a large limiting factor.  I could buy a set pre-built or buy the cabinets, but the cheapskate in me was looking for some sort of compromise.

There is a compromise, a flat pack. All the cuts are done for you and you glue it together and finish it. That way you save on construction costs and finishing. There are several guys around here that do flat packs, as well as elemental designs if you ask them.

It gives a little cleaner bottom end going with the X series woofers.

The only negative is that they cost a little more.

You just told emac he had another upgrade option. That wasn't very nice. 

[emac]

It gives a little cleaner bottom end going with the X series woofers.

The only negative is that they cost a little more.

You just told emac he had another upgrade option. That wasn't very nice. 

Wasn't very nice?  You kidding me?  That's completely sweet!  A completely pimped out pair of O-3's sounds right up my alley.  Danny, I'll be calling you on Thursday or Friday about the new woofers. 

[DizzyT]

There is a compromise, a flat pack. All the cuts are done for you and you glue it together and finish it. That way you save on construction costs and finishing. There are several guys around here that do flat packs, as well as elemental designs if you ask them.

Thanks for letting me know about the flat packs and Elemental Designs.  All of this is going to be tough on a shoestring budget.  I was thinking that even if I get any speaker or sub cabinets from PE, I'm still going to have to cut holes.  I saw that a good router and jig costs $200+.  Maybe I can pawn my MMGC for a few bucks.

You just told emac he had another upgrade option. That wasn't very nice. 

It's only fair.  He got me hooked on the O-3's, so it's the least I could do.  It doesn't seem too expensive an upgrade.  Plus, with the two spare woofers, a Neo3pdr, and crossover, he could build a center!

Wasn't very nice?  You kidding me?  That's completely sweet!  A completely pimped out pair of O-3's sounds right up my alley.

Glad to hear you're taking this well.  You'll have to let us all know how it sounds!

[corndog71]

Well, if I could throw in any advice for us shoe-string budget types it would be this:

Your patience and determination will pay off.

I'm right there with you.  I want a set of either AV123 X-statiks or GR OB-5s.  I fell for the Statiks the first time I heard them and I'm not giving up on that dream!
I really do enjoy my SLS towers but open baffle is just so much better.

I'd love to hear these Omni's but there's no way I could fit them in my dinky little apartment.

Go for the flat pack.  It's the smartest way I think for you to get what you want.  If it takes a few months, so be it.  You can do it!

[HT cOz]

Give http://www.meniscusaudio.com/ a try.

I just got an email from them yesterday about a flat pack I bought in May... If thats not customer service, I don't know what is?  Here is the email.  Very Nice!  Now too bad I'm in the middle of selling my house and building a new one and have no time to do anything.  Maybe I should have had them build the cabs??? Hum, dang hindsight.

"Robert,

How did the cabinets go together?  That was a big project for your first
attempt!

Let me know if we can help.

Regards,
Mark
"

[DizzyT]

Well, if I could throw in any advice for us shoe-string budget types it would be this:

Your patience and determination will pay off. ... If it takes a few months, so be it.  You can do it!

Thanks for your words of encouragement.  No worries, I'll get this all together somehow in time.  Thanks!

BTW, your sub looks really cool!

Give http://www.meniscusaudio.com/ a try.

Now too bad I'm in the middle of selling my house and building a new one and have no time to do anything.  Maybe I should have had them build the cabs??? Hum, dang hindsight.

Thanks for the tip!  Good luck with the new and current home!  I hope that Neo3 HT setup comes together for you soon.

[DizzyT]

So a few more thoughts.  I initially started this post with two questions.  One was easily answered, and I greatly appreciate Danny's response.  Thank you so very much.  I also appreciate everyone's words of encouragement.

The other was about minimum enclosure volume, which I'm still puzzled about.  I'd like to build a smaller cabinet for various reasons, including ease of moving around the house to 4-5 different rooms for testing, the possibility of making a center channel, and being easier to obtain/construct enclosures.

I had used an online calculator previously to reach the figure of 1.158 cu ft.  However, I've been doing more reading and downloaded WinISD.  Two M-130's in a ported enclosure gives a recommended volume size of 29.2 L (1.03 cu ft) with a -3db at about 51.4Hz.  So the minimum enclosure volume needs to be at least 1 cubic ft.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[Danny Richie]

You could easily go as small as .8 cubic feet and hit a -3db of 55hz.

You could even go sealed and .5 cubic feet.

[DizzyT]

You could easily go as small as .8 cubic feet and hit a -3db of 55hz.
You could even go sealed and .5 cubic feet.

Thanks!  Very helpful!

You can't use any of the PE boxes that I know of.

What I may try to do with the O-3 is use the PE 1.0 cu ft rectangular box.  I believe there's enough room on the top of the box to mount two M-130's.  The Neo3pdr should fit on the baffle okay.  The wide of the box is 9" whereas your design calls for 7".  As I understand from another one of your posts regarding a different speaker, the extra width can create surface reflections.

Most of the prefab 1.0 cubic foot enclosures start to get a little wide though.

That will add surface reflections which will disrupt the response and restrict imaging.

It will be a compromise, but one I can live with while I play with the speakers in various rooms in my home.  I'm thinking I can always toss the PE box and get appropriate enclosures for the components, in the future.

There are several here that will build you custom enclosures though.

I probably should get someone to build enclosures for me.  I'd really like to build them myself, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable, unless I was able to purchase a SawStop.  I've seen too many of those ER medical shows where people are lopping off fingers.  But then again, I have a chainsaw, and those things are dangerous too.

With regard to outfitting the rest of the home, I'll probably try Neo1's or ported Neo2x's.  I've got a job interview coming up.  If all goes well, then I can start ordering kits and building within the next few months, maybe a Christmas present for myself!

Thank you, Danny, and everyone else, for all of your help!

[emac]

With regard to outfitting the rest of the home, I'll probably try Neo1's or ported Neo2x's.  I've got a job interview coming up.  If all goes well, then I can start ordering kits and building within the next few months, maybe a Christmas present for myself!

Good luck with the job interview, Dizzy.  Keep our fingers crossed. 

You should also consider the N3's as well.  While I haven't heard them, I'm sure they are outstanding.

[DizzyT]

Good luck with the job interview, Dizzy.  Keep our fingers crossed. 

You should also consider the N3's as well.  While I haven't heard them, I'm sure they are outstanding.

emac, thanks for the well wishes.  I'll keep you posted.

By the way, as you may know, those N3's are a transmission line design.  Vastly more complex than anything I could build or adapt to a PE box.  Thanks for the suggestion though! 

[HT cOz]

You can use the .75 MTM PE box with the NEO3, they just won't play as low as the transmission line. 

I have 3 PE baffles cut for the NEO3 that I am not going to use.  Let me know if you would like a great deal on them. 

Thanks,
Robert

[DizzyT]

You can use the .75 MTM PE box with the NEO3, they just won't play as low as the transmission line. 

Sealed 0.75 box, didn't think of that.  Thanks for the info!  My apologies to emac!

I have 3 PE baffles cut for the NEO3 that I am not going to use.  Let me know if you would like a great deal on them. 

I probably won't have a sub in every room, so I think I'll probably go with the N1's and ported N2X's.  But first the job interview, then O3's, then the Neo's.  Thanks for the offer!