My Singlepower Supra Experience - Why mine almost blew up like a Hand Grenade (and yours might too)

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Tyson

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I've had the Supra SE for a while now, and have quite a collection of 6sn7, 7n7, 12sn7, 2c51, vt-231's, 12at7's, 12au7's, 6922's, ecc99's, 6bl7's, etc... to "tube roll" in the amp.  I also use Lawton Audio (Denon) LA-2000's, which are a pretty difficult load, being down in the 25ohm area. 

I was never super happy with the sound I was getting.  Hence the purchase of all the various tubes.

But, no matter what tubes I used, it always sounded a bit weak and there was that intermittant noise (faint, but noticeable during quiet passages). 

I figured it was just a poor match with the very difficult Denon's, even when using the 6bl7's and the high voltage setting on the amp. 

Finally, I decided I'd just go ahead and sell the amp and get the Zana Deux Transformer amp instead.  But I wanted to give the Supra a check-up with a good tech before selling it to anyone. 

So, I called someone I trusted, Wayne Waananan at Bolder Cables - Store for The Bolder Cable Company - to have a look at it.  He worked with Kevin Gilmore and Mike Galusha (a couple of genuine tube circuit guru's).  They asked me to take some pics and send them to him.  Pics below:















As can be seen, those are not premium quality parts, far from it.  But here's the rub - those 2 big @ss soup can sized capacitors?  They are rated for 450v.  Not bad, except the voltage from the transformer is 530 Volts!  Now, even though they are connected in series, there is not a leveling resistor(s) in place between them.  That means there is a high degree of danger that they will blow up, Yes, BLOW UP LIKE HAND GRENADES!!!!.

So, obviously this thing needs extensive repairs to get fixed.  The power transformer is putting out WAY TOO MUCH voltage for this circuit. And the (cheap) parts in there are not rated to handle anywhere near this level of voltage. And because of the way voltage, current, and low impedance loads work, that means it's putting out 2.5mW of power to the Denon's (and only 1.2mW in Class A). That's pathetic. And there's 500v in the case just waiting to escape and kill your @ss. Grrrr. When I think about the fact that my 2 year old daughter likes to listen to my headphones it enrages me.

Back on topic - the changes needed are 3 fold - 1) Get a new input Power Transformer that's better quality and is half the voltage of the current one. 2) Replace the cheap, incorrectly spec'd parts in the power supply with better, appropriately spec'd ones (ie, get some HEXFRED diodes, and some Solen Film caps to replace the cheap electrolytics). 3) Optimize the output to be transformer coupled and use much better quality caps in the output circuit (ie, Obbligato film in oil caps and Sowter & Lundhal transformers).

The cost in parts alone adds up very, very quickly.


In the meantime, I suggest ANYONE that owns a Single Power amp to contact Wayne at Bolder Cables to see about getting it checked up. These amps ARE NOT SAFE. 


Wayne was able to identify several major problems on mine just from an understanding of the circuit, combined with hi-rez pics I sent of the internals, and telling him the values of various parts on the board.

Nels Ferre

Did Cheech and Chong build that thing?   :scratch:

Hopefully the wiring and layout will be straightened out as well.

mgalusha

yeah.. that should be on the list of electrical safety, put the bong down before soldering.  aa

I'm sure Wayne will tidy it up nicely. Nothing like floating parts with high voltage on them.  :nono:

Did Cheech and Chong build that thing?   :scratch:

Hopefully the wiring and layout will be straightened out as well.

ecramer

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I'm going to leave this for right now. Singlepower been around for a long time and has a good rep In the headphone amp line. As far as what they use for part :nono: They certainly don't have a rep for blowing up.

ED

mbakes

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Singlepower's rep is down the toilet.  He has screwed a bunch of people over to the tune of thousands of dollars.  There are threads over at Head-Fi that discuss it.  He owes people money and amps.  There is little chance if any that any of them will get either.  It is a huge mess.  There are a number of amps that are having problems and people are scrambling to find people to fix them.

ecramer

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  • In time whats deserved always get served.


Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I Haven't been spending a lot of time over at head-fi. I stand corrected. That's a shame. They always were great amps.

 As i stated before i let this go for a little while but AC does have a policy about threads like this

Ed

Singlepower's rep is down the toilet.  He has screwed a bunch of people over to the tune of thousands of dollars.  There are threads over at Head-Fi that discuss it.  He owes people money and amps.  There is little chance if any that any of them will get either.  It is a huge mess.  There are a number of amps that are having problems and people are scrambling to find people to fix them.

Nels Ferre

Please accept my sincere apology. I did not mean to break any rules, I was just making an observation.

mbakes

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What is the policy?  I guess I can find I can look for it in the rules.  It seems to me, people should be aware of this kind of stuff so others don't fall into the trap.



Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I Haven't been spending a lot of time over at head-fi. I stand corrected. That's a shame. They always were great amps.

 As i stated before i let this go for a little while but AC does have a policy about threads like this

Ed

Singlepower's rep is down the toilet.  He has screwed a bunch of people over to the tune of thousands of dollars.  There are threads over at Head-Fi that discuss it.  He owes people money and amps.  There is little chance if any that any of them will get either.  It is a huge mess.  There are a number of amps that are having problems and people are scrambling to find people to fix them.

mgalusha

Please accept my sincere apology. I did not mean to break any rules, I was just making an observation.

+1 - I wasn't trying to fan the flames but I did find Nels comment funny. :)

Tyson

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  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
I did not post this to sully Singlepower's rep.  These amps are dangerous and my post was only an attempt to protect people that might have one of these ticking time bombs in their home.

JohnR

Factual information about a product's quality is not in contravention of the no dirty laundry policy.

Mr Content

Looks like under the hood of a lot of the Chinese amps., how they can sell things like this is beyond me. :evil:

Mr C :)

minimus

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Yes, Mikhail seems to be the most hated vendo at Head-fi.

I have owned a Singlepower Extreme Platinum for about three years and (knock on wood) it has worked perfectly for me and gets a lot of use.  My understanding is that the Supra (a more expensive Singlepower amp) is a design mess, but the lower priced Singlepower amps have more simple circuit designs.  These amps (the Extreme and MPX) are well-regarded and generally seem reliable. At least I don't hear a lot of complaints that these amps fail frequently, let alone "blow up like a hand grenade."

That said, I would not buy from Singlepower again, as much as I enjoy my Extreme.  Mikhail does not seem to be delivering amps once they are paid for -- so buying is not really an option anyway.  Moreover, the apparent death spiral of his business that is a result of an increasingly bad reputation means that his amps will not sell easily in the used market and will not be easy to repair.

Wayne1

At least I don't hear a lot of complaints that these amps fail frequently

Here is a photo of a power transformer pulled from a Singlepower Extreme by Dr. Kevin Gilmore.

Singlepower Extreme Transformer

The filaments of the output tubes can easily draw more current the the transformer is spec'ed to deliver. You may want to check with Dr. Gilmore to make certain. I know he recently received an Extreme that had the transformer replaced with a custom built one.

Extreme Upgraded Transformer

Here is a schematic of a stock Extreme drawn by Dr. Gilmore. Please note how the B+ is pulled from the primary side of the transformer.

Extreme Schematic

M3NTAL

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These threads worry me a bit. I have a Supra XLR which is the balanced version of Tyson's amplifier.

I tried getting into mine to photograph, but the SS screws in the Aluminum chassis with tiny allen heads stripped and I don't own an extractor set.

Wayne, how much would it cost to diagnose one of these amplifiers?

Wayne1

The initial cost would just be the shipping charges to and from Colorado. Once I go through the amp I can let you know what I find, take pictures and give you a rough idea of any costs to repair/rebuild the unit.

Wayne1

The amplifier that Tyson gave me to repair/rebuild has a switch on the back panel to change between "High" voltage and "Low" voltage. The HV is actually 530 V and the low is 260 V.

After careful examination of the other parts used in this amp, I was curious about the ratings of this switch. The numbers were covered by a blue decal. I peeled the decal off and cleaned up the switch.

This is what I found



It is an Electroswitch C4D0206N sold by Digi-Key for $16.00.

Here is the pdf of the spec sheet for the switch.

It is rated for use to 0.5 amp at 25 volts DC. The switch is only being fed 21 times what it is rated for.

I would be very careful if I owned one of these amps with this switch.

Mr Content

Well this is more serious than just bad wiring. these could indeed kill you. Or they may catch on fire as well. If I had one of these, I would unplug it immediately. :duh:

Mr C :o

Bemopti123

For sure these amps would not pass the CE labs label and be sold in Europe.  This makes me think whether he really knew what he was doing with his designs.  I once thought his amps were quite snazzy and interesting.  I wonder what exactly made SinglePower go down the drain as of late.

SET Man

...
It is rated for use to 0.5 amp at 25 volts DC. The switch is only being fed 21 times what it is rated for.

I would be very careful if I owned one of these amps with this switch.

Hey!

   Whoa! What the hell was he thinking? :evil:

   I could over look the messy wiring somewhat but using parts rated below needed is just plain stupid  :nono:


Take care,
Buddy :thumb: