Smallest Sealed Enclosure for Rhythmik 370PEQ + SW-12-04 (?)

rupnok · « **on:** 25 Jul 2009, 11:55 pm »

Gentlemen,

I've decided (thanks to all of your help, most notably Brian & Danny) to take the plunge to on a sealed servo-controlled sub. I am going to go single SW-12-04 mated with the 370PEQ.

I have an all satin-black system (X-Statik & X-Voce), and am not a huge fan of the black ash vinyl veneer of the finished Rythmik F12G. Additionally, I am hoping to squeeze a couple of inches off the depth of the sub (apartment living and all). I would love some assistance on thinking about the size of an enclosure that could be more in line with same the Epik Vanquish... or a little bit bigger than my current ULW-10 (driver goes ::right:: up to edge of enclosure).

(1) Is it possible to shave a few inches off the enclosure size and who would you recommend as a good enclosure builder that could do a smaller enclosure?

(2) What do I :lose: in terms of warranty going the kitted route vs. Brian's finished subs?

(3) If I do go the finished F12G route, could I feasibly sand the vinyl finishing and get it to look satin black?

BTW... for those that care - I decided to get a used set of X-Omnis for my rears... they are AWESOME!

laserman · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jul 2009, 02:14 pm »

Dear Gentleperson Rupnok,

Have you seen the Rythmik vinyl cabinet up close and personal. When I purchased my GR-Rythmik sub, I got the cabinet because I was having a GTG and needed something quick. Brain sent it as a loaner show piece. Well, I ended up purchasing it because it looks very good and my sub is somewhat hidden behind one of my Neo 2X speaker stands. YMMV, but you may want to see if anyone lives close to you...I'm in Pittsburgh and you are welcome any time.

Lou

rupnok · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jul 2009, 09:58 pm »

Quote from: laserman on 26 Jul 2009, 02:14 pm

Dear Gentleperson Rupnok,

Have you seen the Rythmik vinyl cabinet up close and personal. When I purchased my GR-Rythmik sub, I got the cabinet because I was having a GTG and needed something quick. Brain sent it as a loaner show piece. Well, I ended up purchasing it because it looks very good and my sub is somewhat hidden behind one of my Neo 2X speaker stands. YMMV, but you may want to see if anyone lives close to you...I'm in Pittsburgh and you are welcome any time.

Lou

Lou,

Thanks for the response - I have only seen the finish in photos - but have seen a lot of vinyl covered black ash finishes on other speakers/subs. I know I'm being a stickler here - but just exploring my options for more of a satin black finish. I just like the neutrality of satin black (don't even like piano/gloss black!)

If you wouldn't mind, would love to see pics of your unit (live in Cambridge, so Pittsburgh is a little far...)! Do you have the 370PEQ amp? What are your impressions of the unit?

I'm pretty jazzed about all the adjustments - low pass, extension, and rumble filter mean I can change the characteristics of the sub depending on use (music or movies) and time of day/day of week (weeknights vs. weekend days).

rupnok · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 01:01 pm »

... Sorry to be posting so many times on my own post...

Is the A300 amp set to EXT/12 with rumble filter on? I am using a Denon 1909 w/ Audyssey for my amp, and think I could give up the single band PEQ and 70 extra watts. Just wondering about the difference in the extension/rumble filter.

Also - are Brian's pre-built A300 subs larger than the A370PEQs?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 02:46 pm »

I wouldn't go any smaller than 1.5 cubic feet. Going smaller demands more from the amp as the servo system tries to maintain a linear output, and the smaller box fights harder against it to doing that.

That is why with less power then box can be bigger and with more power the box can be smaller.

The A300 does not have the rumble filter or the additional 12db per octave selectable slopes at 50Hz and 80Hz.

laserman · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 06:53 pm »

Rupnok,

I have the 370PEQ amp and love the PEQ. I used a RS Sound level meter and a test tone cd to calibrate the sub to the room. You can play with the settings to see which gets you the best results. It was like using a surgical knife on the frequency levels I was achieving. Yes, this will take a while if you want to do it correctly, but well worth it. There was one that I changed due to personal preference and not the reading I was getting. I could give you my settings, but they would certainly not apply to your "room gain" for sure. OBTW, lesson learned - if you start testing with just yourself in the room, don't compromise it by testing if someone else enters the room, because that person's presence will through off the findings somewhat...damn human bodies are made up of too much water but they do make great low frequency absorbers.

I did turn off the rumble filter and did so because I have been transferring some OOP vinyl to cdR and noticed (with grill cover off) that the subwoofer driver was moving in and out when very little low frequency was recorded. I figured out it must be from the TT when I recorded...I turned it off and all was right in the audio universe again.

Here is a picture of how I have the sub sitting behind the Neo 2X.

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 07:42 pm »

Like your stands! Are they DIY? looks like you could get quite a bit of sand in them....

-Tony

rupnok · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 07:58 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 27 Jul 2009, 02:46 pm

I wouldn't go any smaller than 1.5 cubic feet. Going smaller demands more from the amp as the servo system tries to maintain a linear output, and the smaller box fights harder against it to doing that.

That is why with less power then box can be bigger and with more power the box can be smaller.

The A300 does not have the rumble filter or the additional 12db per octave selectable slopes at 50Hz and 80Hz.

Danny,

Totally understand the point around power/volume ratio (and get why something like the ULW-10 had a 650W amp...)

From what you are saying, I'd be better off going with the 370PEQ in a smaller enclosure. When you say 1.5 ft^3, do you mean internal volume. I take it that you wouldn't take any more off of Brian's cabinets (15.75x15.75x17).

I have the opportunity to possibly buy a used F12G w/ an A300 amp - which is why I asked. Price is going to have be pretty good for me to jump on it vs. going the a370PEQ route...

I am a little confused by the selective slope and rumble filter. If I am using bass management from the Denon 1909, and am looking for a sharp slope after 20hz (don't want to be producing subsonic sound in an apartment), I am under the idea that I don't lose anything going with the A300 amp...

laserman · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 09:01 pm »

Quote from: TRADERXFAN on 27 Jul 2009, 07:42 pm

Like your stands! Are they DIY? looks like you could get quite a bit of sand in them....

-Tony

Hey Tony,

Yes, DIYer stands. The are filled with a mix of lead shot and sand, which makes them an extremely good stand for monitors. As you can see from my photo, I have a sack on top of the sub to mass load it...it's 100% let shot.

I wrote up plans for the speaker stands and have it on a Word file. If you want it, please PM or email me and I will be glad to assist.

Lou

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 09:08 pm »

Quote

I am under the idea that I don't lose anything going with the A300 amp...

You loose the 1 band PEQ.

cleestedwood · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 09:32 pm »

Lou, does that mass loading on the top of the sub help even if its lined with No-Rez? Paul

laserman · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 10:43 pm »

Paul,

I think it does, because even with NoRez or even BlackHole 5 (which I have in another sub) I still feel vibrations in the lead shot. So, I feel this is probably helping to ensure the driver repoduces as tight a wavelength signal as possible. What you can't see very well is that I have the sub sitting on a sandwiched plateform that decouples it from the floor. It just seems to work very well in this configuration.

Lou

dvenardos · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Jul 2009, 10:55 pm »

Quote from: rupnok on 27 Jul 2009, 07:58 pm

I take it that you wouldn't take any more off of Brian's cabinets (15.75x15.75x17).

I don't know the dimensions of the driver, but if it is depth you are worried about you could have the enclosure made taller and less deep if the driver will still fit. Also, you can put the amp in a separate box.

I like elemental designs for custom enclosures.

rupnok · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jul 2009, 08:35 pm »

Ideally I'd like to get the F12G to be something similar in shape, size, and color to the SVS SB12 Plus (14x14x15):

Svelte & sexy, in satin/glossy black (not piano). Driver comes right up to the edge, and is not very deep at all...

Danny Richie · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jul 2009, 09:50 pm »

You could make it that small, but it will be tougher on the amp as it will require more power to get it to reach the same output as it would if the box were larger.

The 1.5 cubic foot box has externals of only 15.75" by 15.75" by 17.25" deep. That is still pretty small.

http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/singleservo.pdf

dvenardos · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Jul 2009, 12:32 am »

What happened to the 600 watt servo amp that Rythmik was selling?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Jul 2009, 12:37 am »

Nothing "happened" to it. It is still available.

That's too much amp for one of our woofers though. It was designed to power a pair of our SW-12-08 woofers.

dvenardos · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jul 2009, 06:47 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 29 Jul 2009, 12:37 am

Nothing "happened" to it. It is still available.

That's too much amp for one of our woofers though. It was designed to power a pair of our SW-12-08 woofers.

Ah, I was trying to find it on your site and rythmik site and couldn't find it anywhere.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Jul 2009, 06:53 pm »

Quote

Ah, I was trying to find it on your site and rythmik site and couldn't find it anywhere.

It is under Electronics:

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=12

rupnok · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Aug 2009, 02:58 pm »

Two quick hits before I pull the trigger:

(1) Recommended custom enclosure manufacturers? I know elemental designs does well by folks, but don't know who in this Circle still does custom enclosures. I think I could handle a flat pack if all I needed to do was glue, but with no router or circle jig saw, I can't even do the PE box (which I know are very resonant)

(2) Anyone use black melamine or vinyl on a sub before? I may be able to pick up a honey oak enclosure at a slight discount - and was wondering if folks have refinished using the vinyl stuff?