Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2380 times.

Ralph Glasgal

Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable
« on: 21 Jul 2009, 12:57 am »
I am not one of those who believes vinyl is inherently superior to CDs, but I have enjoyed the use of a laser turntable (called Finial originally) for a number of years.  In response to an offer of an upgrade from ELP in Japan I sent my turtable to Japan and a few weeks ago I got it back.

It is like a miracle.  It produces almost no clicks and pops or certainly no more than any cartridge.  I used to have to clean records ad infinitum to optically play them and sometimes there were skipped grooves or discs that just would not play.  Now I have played almost one hundred discs, all classical and even without washing them there is little noise.  I use a tick and pop eliminator but now even with this bypassed this laser groove reader performs better than my normal turntables ever did and I don't have to worry about record wear or needle replacement not to mention hum, or dust since the ELP has a high level output and is almost airtight while playing.  Talk about perfect sound forever.  My measurements with test records show a normal flat frequency response although the RIAA curve is fixed.  It also works a lot faster and the remote control is like a CD player's. 

Of course, this acomplishment is thirty years too late and I doubt ELP will be in business much longer.  I also appreciate that this unit is not affordable for most on this or any list.

Again, I have no problem with CDs.  But I have perhaps 1000 LPs, all classical, mostly baroque, and most not available on CD.  This ELP unit also plays 78s, some one hundred years old, without wearing them and you can pick the best groove wall and depth to avoid the worst wear.

Now for the technical part.  Listening on the ELP to LPs of large ensembles like opera, organ, or a symphony, I obtained a stage of up to 180 degrees wide from almost every LP I tried which could logically have such a wide stage.  CDs can also produce a similarly wide stage but not as consistently.  Of course, I always listen to recordings using Ambiophonics rather than stereophonics so if a recording has captured the Interaural Level Difference and the Interaural Time Difference of the original live sound and this has been impressed on the medium (LP or CD) without loss, then I can hear such a wide and deeper soundstage using this or similar binaurally correct reproduction method.  The moral of this is that in the LP era, the recording engineers did not have humongous digital pan potting consoles at their disposal, used fewer spot mics, and so, in general, delivered the ILD and ITD picked up by the mic's undisturbed to the record cutting lathe.  I believe the fondness for LPs over CDs is really related to this lower level of mixer processing and simpler mic usage than any inherent difference in media or analog versus digital storage.

But why does laser playback seem to provide a stage with such enhanced width, depth and ease of localization compared to cartridge playback.  I believe the answer is that each wall of the disc is read independently by its own laser and so there is no interaction between each channel and both the separation and the timing are almost ideal.  In a cartridge the needle essentially combines both grooves and then the moving end of the cantilever undoes this addition via coils and magnets.  If the groove walls are truly orthogonal and likewise the coils and magnets, and the cantilever does not bend, and the needle tip is symmetric, then the ILD and ITD are well preserved.  Also if the cutter did not really have a 45 degree angle or the needle is too low or too high there will be error. In contrast, the optical reading method does not care about the original cutting angle.  It still reads each groove wall regardless.  Thus in a high resolution system, where small differences in ILD and ITD are audible as changes in stage width or realism, the ELP has an advantage.  Another interesting phenomena is that when a tick does occur, it sounds way off to the side.  This is because the ticks are usually only picked up by one laser and so being all left or all right they reproduce at the far side and not on top of the soloist.

But if you stick to CDs/SACDs, etc. or your LP collection is all one voice with a guitar or small combo then all this is of no concern.

Ralph Glasgal
       

   

Daverz

Re: Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jul 2009, 10:33 am »
Really interesting.  Do you know what particular part of the upgrade was responsible for getting the quieter playback?  Are they using built-in DSP-based click and pop removal?

I can't say this is something I'll be putting money down on soon, but I do hope they stay in business and keep perfecting the technology. 

Ralph Glasgal

Re: Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jul 2009, 01:44 pm »
Really interesting.  Do you know what particular part of the upgrade was responsible for getting the quieter playback?  Are they using built-in DSP-based click and pop removal?

I can't say this is something I'll be putting money down on soon, but I do hope they stay in business and keep perfecting the technology.

There has always been a built-in tick and pop removal option in the ELP but it never did work well or at all as far as I could tell.  But you always had to turn it on.  Normally it is off.  ELP used to push the Cedar declicker and this worked rather well.  Now they offer their own little box which appears to be extracted from the Cedar original.  I don't have any idea what the software changes are.  The processor certainly is a lot faster so you hear music in about half the time and the remote control also responds faster, etc.  As far as the ticks and pops it is likely that the size of the laser beam or some other similar adjustment may be responsible.  After all the extra ticks and pops were really a tribute to the high resolution of the system.  It played back absolutely everything in the groove.  Perhaps ELP decided that reading more of the groove wall like a needle does was a better idea or perhaps there was some reflection from the groove bottom that they have managed now to avoid with better optics.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org

orthobiz

Re: Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable
« Reply #3 on: 21 Jul 2009, 02:29 pm »
I have a Loricraft cleaner, marketed in the US by the same people as the ELP. But if you go to the website (at least last year) they had nothing but bad things to say about the Japanese distributor/manufacturer. I assume that's why you had to send it to Japan. Quite frankly, I would have been worried that it somehow wouldn't make its way back to the States!

Anyway, do the upgrades allow it to play colored vinyl or is it still black only?

Paul

Ralph Glasgal

Re: Upgraded ELP Laser Turntable
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jul 2009, 06:42 pm »
I have a Loricraft cleaner, marketed in the US by the same people as the ELP. But if you go to the website (at least last year) they had nothing but bad things to say about the Japanese distributor/manufacturer. I assume that's why you had to send it to Japan. Quite frankly, I would have been worried that it somehow wouldn't make its way back to the States!

Anyway, do the upgrades allow it to play colored vinyl or is it still black only?

Paul

ELP is obviously a very very small company and really cannot afford a payroll in the US.  They say they have 64 upgrades in the pipeline for units already shipped and sitting in Japan.  These days with Federal Express making it easy to ship internationally and no customs hassle it is really sensible to get repairs or upgrades done where they can be done properly.

Again the ELP is only for very rich technically skilled hobbyists, institutions, archives, etc.  I would be surprised if even 1000 have been sold worldwide.

I have no colored vinyl here to try it with.  I doubt it will work with light colored discs.  It does show an HSAT alarm which means too bright even with some old black 78s.  The ELP is not perfect by any means,but that it works at all with the overwhelming majority of LPs and 78s is some kind of triumph.

Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org