[GHM]

Has anyone heard these? And if you have what type of cabinet was or is it used in.  I'm very intrigued by this driver and would like to use it in a MLTL designed cabinet using BSC circuit. I've asked Bob Brines what he thought of this idea. He says it is very doable. From his first plots, I should get bass output into the 20Hz range easily. Making this single drive speaker very close if not full range. I really like the TL bass and the overall fullness it gives the music. The plot simulation below is courtesy of Bob Brines.
I've read that the Seas is more articulate than my Fostex F200As. 

Any comments or ideas about this are welcomed.


TIA

[Mariusz]

I want to try it in my speakers but its cost is an issue. $1600 a pair is a little excessive if you ask me. But it might as well be one of those "perfect" drivers given the right enclosure. Including X1s in any commercial design would reflect in substantial price increase. DIY crowd might be the only clientele interested in implementing these drivers in appropriate designs.

New Omega Hemp drivers' spects look somewhat similar and cost a lot less but aren't available for obvious reasons.

I have heard from Johnk (speaker builder) from Agon about these drivers.
he seems to like these very much.

Mariusz

[Bemopti123]

Brother Gy:

Gosh, you are about to open a can of worms!  I think the biggest advantage of the Seas driver over the F200A is the sensitivity issue.

Nevertheless, when you put those BSC into the equation, sensitivity might be taken.

Although there are other drivers that are MUCH MUCH MUCH more expensive than the Seas, such as the PHY-HP which have increased from about $1100 to $1900 in a matter of a couple of years, the SEAS are not necessarily affordable. 

Most of the cabs I see are used with the SEAS seem to be sealed like that of JohnK or ugly towers like those prefabs that Madisound offers for them. 

If you want to experiment with MLTL on the easy way, why not try to do something like the Bazookas in the Bottlehead forum?  I have all the pieces for it, the concrete molds are about $50, I need to get myself some stuffing, and some marginal wood cutting, gluing and a rudimentary BSC, and it seems that you can achieve great results. 

I was thinking about doing this with my Lowther PM6CAs, hi efficiency and alnico, quite light. 

The Seas seems to be intriguing enough though.

[GHM]

Yes I agree guys the cost is my biggest caveat about trying them, but I can't help but dream of how a driver like this would sound in one of BBs cabs. He gave me the dimension on the cabinets. From his comments it will be about as wide and tall as the FTA-2000s , but 8 inches deeper!!   That would make it one brute of a speaker!!! lol

$1600 is a chunk for just drivers, though I'm aware of others that are quite a bit more. Sensitivity I believe will be around 92dB with BSC making them 3 more dB efficient over the F200As.

Can you imagine a single driver with TL bass doing 20hz to 20 khz? That would be AWESOME!! aa

JohnK was one of the first I've seen comment on these drivers. Nelson Pass also picked it as one of his favorites.
Tekton is using it in their top speaker http://www.tektondesign.com/seas.htm. He doesn't give specs though, it is more of BS advertising than any substantial measurements.

Thanks Paul for the heads up!

[Bob_Brines]

I need to explain that my proposal is not a TL but a cross between a BR and a MLTL, which is sort of an oxymoron since BR's and MLTL's are mathmatically identical.

The problem with the Seas X1 is that it has both a large Vas and a reasonably high Qts and additionally a rising frequency response. It is as if Seas didn't know what  kind of cabinet they were designing for. The rising response would indicate a horn, but the Qts is too high. The high Qts would indicate an OB, but the Qts is not quite high enough. The Vas demands a large box and this is counter to modern practice of improved WAF. All in all an interesting problem.

My solution is a reasonably large floor-standing BR with enough volume to do a strong EBS alignment. But a tall thin box is going to have strong internal standing waves. This dictates the unusual placement of the port half-way up the baffle. From the front, my speaker will look a lot like Texton's effort, but I suspect that mine will have twice the volume. There is no way to tell, since Texton's specifications are "Take a pair home for a month and give them a try".

Bob

[GHM]

Thank you Bob for shedding some light on the proposed design!
I remember reading on another forum where you and a few other designers discussed the differences and similarities of a BR, LT and MLTL design.

What is that gives your designs the smooth declining bass response verses a poorly designed BR's in general?
I read up on this a few years back, but need some refreshment in layman terms of the differences.

Thanks!

[Bob_Brines]

As you note, my designs roll off gradually rather than the flat to cut-off then fall off of the table response you get with QB3 alignments. When room lift is added to the gradual roll-off of an EBS alignment, you get ~flat in-room. With a QB3, you get a rising response with falling frequency that is anything but flat in-room. QB3 is what gives BR's the reputation of boomy bass. It doesn't have to be. I have a BR for the 207E that gives reasonably tight bass into the low 30's because it matches a "normal" sized room. Most people are insensitive to the increasing group delay at low frequencies (the driver and port are in quadrature at box resonance). I don't think that group delay is the issue with BR's -- it's proper shaping of the roll-off. BTW a QB3 for the X1 would be ~200 liters. My proposal is ~125 liters.

When designing BR's, I have learned from experience and imitation that as long as Vas is large enough to support it, start with a volume of ~85% of a QB3 alignment, then tune as low as you can without getting an obvious bass shelf. If Vas is too low to support this, then go with a volume of 150% of QB3 and again tune as low as you can. There is a bit of black art here, but it is easy to learn.

Bob

[hobbyhands]

Tekton is using it in their top speaker http://www.tektondesign.com/seas.htm. He doesn't give specs though, it is more of BS advertising than any substantial measurements.

Thanks Paul for the heads up!

I've found that many speaker companies don't post a lot of detail. Probably because it is jibberish to most folks. For instance when buying a car. I not knowing very much about cars rely on what others have said or reviews. I've also found that most companies that believe in their products do have a good return policy.

I'm sure more info could be had if one were to ask. Just a thought.

[GHM]

Tekton is using it in their top speaker http://www.tektondesign.com/seas.htm. He doesn't give specs though, it is more of BS advertising than any substantial measurements.

Thanks Paul for the heads up!

I've found that many speaker companies don't post a lot of detail. Probably because it is jibberish to most folks. For instance when buying a car. I not knowing very much about cars rely on what others have said or reviews. I've also found that most companies that believe in their products do have a good return policy.

I'm sure more info could be had if one were to ask. Just a thought.

Many? Who are they? In my experience it is just the opposite.
I suppose I like seeing some technical data to back up the claims.

[hobbyhands]

I guess it depends on how detailed you want the specs to be? And specs can only tell so much.  And you are right many companies do post detailed specs. But many don't.

What kind of specs are you taking about? Are you looking for actual screen shots of an impedance curve,  or a plot of the frequency reponse. Stuff like that? I agree that would be neat.

I looked at a few of the speakers and they do seem to have dimensions, frequency response(not a graph) and db and watts? Did you see the specifications button?

As a diy person I can see how you might want the heavy details. Again, I'm sure for those interested many companies would be glad to answer questions.

And again the money back guarantee is big thing for me. I would also say how many of us would have the guts to start his/her own speaker company. I would bet many of the small speaker companies really do put their honest heart and hard work into what they do.

I think we can both agree that making speakers for yourself is the most fun.

[GHM]

Agreed!
I really enjoy finding small companies with great products as well. I'm not a real fan of the larger companies. I once believed specs or unfudged specs weren't important. That's until I came across the Brines speakers. 

[hobbyhands]

. I love good conversation .

I have some small speakers I built about 6 months. Kind of temorary. I'm finishing my upstairs. Never finished. Making a speaker / theater room, and am excited to building some great sounding speakers when I'm done.

I can wait to have a dedicated area to listen to stuff

[GHM]

Check out these, I talked to the builder. Very nice guy! My biggest problem with his designs is no real specs. I think his work is beautiful though.

[hobbyhands]

Wow! I like the design. Very unique. And it's cool to see the tl under the acrlyic. Acrylic scratches though. That is unless it is treated. But that is way expensive to do.

It looks like a 3d graphc render not an actual picture? Does he have a real one done?

[GHM]

Those C horns weigh about 140 lbs a piece!
Yes he has definitely built them.

[hobbyhands]

I would love to see some shots of the real thing! I love the acrylic look!

[GHM]

Here's a pic of an unfinished C horn.

[hobbyhands]

Very, very nice, and different. Good Job!

[rjbond3rd]

That C-horn is from the future.

[GHM]

Yes amazing isn't it. 
Actually this builder is out of Australia. So the speaker is from down under.