[kenreau]

Looking for a preowned Graham 2.2 or SME IV.Vi tonearm or SME 309.

I have a cartridge and tt ready to roll, just looking for a tonearm to complete the kit.

Thanks
Kenreau

[toobluvr]

Looking for a preowned Graham 2.2 or SME IV.Vi tonearm.

I have a cartridge and tt ready to roll, just looking for a tonearm to complete the kit.

Thanks
Kenreau

Pardon me for budding in, but.....

Kuzma Stogi Reference!!

Nice one here:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1252253464&/Kuzma-Stogi-Reference-with-fin

A lesser known and somewhat under-appreciated piece of kit, in my estimation.  Overlook it at your own peril!  I own it.  I love it.  I have also owned SME V, and Graham 1.5 t/c.  All are now sold, except the Kuzma.  I suppose that tells ya all you need to know....at least in my opinion.  Of course,  YMMV.
 

Do the research.  Lots of folks who have owned both think the Stogi Ref.  gives up nothing to the V (and other reference quality arms), and many feel it surpasses it.

The Graham was my least favorite...by a wide margin.

John

[kenreau]

John,

Thanks for the recommendation.  I have seriously looked at the Kuzma and may go that route if this quest takes some time.  My only concern is it is a little on the esoteric fringe and potentially difficult to get serviced or re-sell if needed in the future. 

I am suprised about the comment on the Graham arm.    I've not heard one and only read good things about them.

And - Congratulations on the sale of your SME V !

Thx,
Kenreau

[toobluvr]

John,

Thanks for the recommendation.  I have seriously looked at the Kuzma and my go that route if this quest takes some time.  My only concern is it is a little on the esoteric fringe and potentially difficult to get serviced or re-sell if needed in the future. 

I am suprised about the comment on the Graham arm.    I've not heard one and only read good things about them.

And - Congratulations on the sale of your SME V !

Thx,
Kenreau

Yeah.....for the most part you will read good things about Graham arms.  I found mine to be dry, thin, sterile, and "hi-fiish" sounding.  Not my cuppa tea.  Mine was the 1.5 t/c, and I have no idea how it compares to the 2.2.  After my experience with it, I have no desire to re-visit the Graham well.

There aren't many, but I have come across similar comments from others over the years about the Graham arms.   I owned it at same time as the SME...which I much prefered.  Maybe just a synergy thing, or bad match w my cartridge or table.    Who knows?        This stuff is tricky. 

I had the same experience with a pair of Ref 3A MM deCappo "i" monitors that I once owned.  Almost universal praise all around, except for a few dissenters that heard the same anomaly/artifact that I did:  a lean and peaky quality in the upper mids.  I found it aggressive and fatiguing, but I never read about it in any pro reviews.  However, I did come across a few similar comments from fellow owners. 

The Stogi is at least as good as the V.......maybe better...it is close.  I am not alone in this opinion.  If you search the audio boards, you will see similar comments from others that have owned or heard both.  And I hear that the SME IV and V are very close.  Extrapolating out then, the Stogi Ref s/b competive w the IV also.

No doubt that Kuzma does not have the "name recognition" of other arms, and hence might be a tougher resell than SME......as is evidenced by the fact that this gentleman had to re-list it.  But that can work to your favor in that you can get it at a good price.....I'm sure below his ask.  And I can tell you with certainty that its low profile is absolutely no reflection whatsoever on its performance. 

Regarding resell issues......
There are those lurking about that know about Kuzma quality and actually prefer owning the "fringey" stuff....myself included.  Buy right and if you have patience on the resell  (once you hear it, I don't think you will be doing that anytime soon  ), you will not be hurt.

Unless the Kuzma has been abused, I don't think you need to worry about servicing or repair issues.  It is a serious piece of engineering...elegant in its simplicity...... and very solidly built.  Really not much can go wrong with it from what I can see.  And the seller appears to be a serious audiophile.  Look at his other items.  I'm sure he took good care of it.

Mine is almost 20 years old and apart from some laxity in the cueing device (to be expected at its age, and repaired simply by ordering/installing the inexpensive part) and a broken armclip (easily replaced with the $20 part), it operates perfectly and smoothly.  There is no play or sloppiness whatsoever in the bearings.

It is really easy to set up and really easy to use.  And it provides every adjustment that you would need.  The other thing it has over the SME and Graham is that it comes with a captive phono cable.  If you are a purist you will like the one complete cable from cartridge clips to RCA plugs.  Of course, you lose the flexibility of choosing your own phono cable, but you also save the cost of buying one.  I do not recommend the VDH cable that comes with the SME.  It is not very good.

Themusic.com imports and distributes Kuzma.  They carry many parts and accessories.  And Franc Kuzma seems very appoachable and responsive.  I have emailed him several times and he replied quickly and helpfully.

If you buy purely on performance merits, I don't think you can go wrong with the Stogi Ref.  I think you would save several hundred compared to the SME (used prices).   Not sure about Graham prices.

I also hear the SME 309 is very close to the IV and V in performance.  Again, you will save $$ going that route.  In an effort to get some $$ out of my system, I was targeting the 309.  But the Stogi Ref became available and I went for it.  I'm glad I did....no regrets whatsoever.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.  I have no vested interested in pushing Kuzma.  I just like to share good finds and good deals with other hobbyists.

~John

[2bigears]

   good words John,ya got me thinkin'.if it stays with the 309 to the 5's,it must be good.   what table do you have her on ???? thks  Pat

[kenreau]

John,

That is mighty high praise indeed.  One other question if you don't mind, my SOTA armboard is for a SME arm and I would rather not buy another armboard.  Does the Kuzma tonearm mounting geometry match the SME?

Thanks again,
Kenreau

[toobluvr]

  good words John,ya got me thinkin'.if it stays with the 309 to the 5's,it must be good.   what table do you have her on ???? thks  Pat

Pat,

I have tried it on both my tables:

Townshend Audio Rock Mk3
Kuzma Stabi "s"

[toobluvr]

John,

That is mighty high praise indeed.  One other question if you don't mind, my SOTA armboard is for a SME arm and I would rather not buy another armboard.  Does the Kuzma tonearm mounting geometry match the SME?

Thanks again,
Kenreau

Ken,

The arm pillar to record spindle distance is almost identical.  So the location of the Kuzma will be almost the same as the SME.  But the arm mounting method is different, so a different armboard is needed......or some modifications to your existing board are required.

I only had a SME/Graham armboard that I used on my Townshend table with my V and 1.5 t/c arms.  With some finagling I was able to make it work for the Stogi Ref. 

The oval cutout on the board was in the correct place for the Stogi arm pillar, but it was just a hair too tight for it.  So I carefully mapped out the correct location along the oval and simply drilled it out with a 1 and 1/4 inch bit.  Board is made of acrylic, so it was easy.

Similar to Rega, Linn and many other arms, there is a round collar that drops into the armboard hole and gets attached to the armboard with 3 bolts.  The arm pillar then drops into this collar and is secured to it with a simple set screw on the side of the collar. 

The tricky part here was that no matter how I rotated and positioned the collar in the hole, one of the collar bolt holes always lined up with the armboard's oval cutout. 

To deal with the absent third hole I used a small 1.5 inch straight metal connecting bracket just a bit longer than the oval cutout width.  This can be purchased very cheaply at any hardware store.  I did not attach it to the arm board in any way.  I simply drilled a hole into it,  spanned it across the underside of the oval such that the 2 ends were touching the underside of the board, and pushed the arm collar bolt thru it from underneath, and then up into the threaded collar.  This basically gives the bolt head something to tighten down onto.  Tightening the bolt into the arm collar squeezed everything together nice and tight.  Rock solid result.

The other two holes for the collar bolts were very close to the oval cutout, but doable.  I carefully drilled two more holes into the armboard for them.

In the end it worked out fine.  If I was not able to modify my existing armboard,  I would have simply made a template out of cardboard and hired a local machine shop to make me one from my material of choice.  Maybe acrylic or aluminum or wood.  Maybe even tile or stone?  I have already made one myself from wood.  It is not hard to do....just measuring, cutting and drilling.  But I don't have the tools for the more exotic materials.

I'm sure this would be much cheaper than getting raped with one custom made by the table manufacturer, and I would seriously doubt that it would be inferior in any way.

~John

[woodsyi]

You may get some outrageous price at some companies, but not everyone is like that.  There are still good customer service around.  Chris at Teres was very reasonable to make an armboard for a Graham mounting.  A. J. Conti at Basis was very nice about making a 78 pulley at a reasonable price.  Thom Mackris at Galibier goes out of his way to help a customer (looking for a Schroeder arm). 

I would definitely check with a dealer or the manufacturer to see about getting a new arm board (it could be reasonable) before altering it yourself.  It may affect your resale value, or not. 

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, Graham Phantom 2 is not sterile for me. 

[toobluvr]

You may get some outrageous price at some companies, but not everyone is like that.  There are still good customer service around.  Chris at Teres was very reasonable to make an armboard for a Graham mounting.  A. J. Conti at Basis was very nice about making a 78 pulley at a reasonable price.  Thom Mackris at Galibier goes out of his way to help a customer (looking for a Schroeder arm). 

I would definitely check with a dealer or the manufacturer to see about getting a new arm board (it could be reasonable) before altering it yourself.  It may affect your resale value, or not. 

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, Graham Phantom 2 is not sterile for me.

All good points.
I guess I was speaking too generally...bad habit.

In my case, I did consider the destruction of value as I was taking out my tools.  But to my knowledge,  SME or Graham arms are not used on my Townshend table....at least I've never come across it.  So I figured the board has very little value anyway on that table.

The other thing I considered is that the board for this table is a very simple affair that can be made easily and cheaply.  It is roughly a 3 x 5 inch rectangle, a few mm thick, with bolt holes in each of the four corners for table attachment.  Nothing fancy at all.  Mine is acrylic. 

I've already made a few out of peg-board like material and wood.  If I had a friend with a machine shop I bet he could make gorgeous ones from nicer materials for less than 20 bucks each with very little time and effort.