[TRM]

Unfortunately I had to place my listening couch against a (painted) foundation wall. Wish I could have oriented the room differently but we all deal with the rooms we have.

The room is 14'1" x 19'11" x 7'10"

the speakers are along the long wall with the couch (obviously) parallel. I'm working on some treatments to go on the wall behind the couch. I was wondering though about pulling the couch off the wall a few inches, maybe a foot total. Would that help? Or would I need to be a few feet from the wall?

FWIW my speakers drivers are 36" from the back wall, left speaker 66" from the left wall, right speaker 77" from the right wall. Driver to driver is 8'. Right now the listeners head is just about 10' from the speakers.

Thanks

[Big Red Machine]

Been there and done that in almost exact size room.  Go on the short wall instead and get your head off the wall.  You will enjoy it much more that way.  One foot is not going to make a significant difference.  All these sounds will continue to bounce all around your ears when you are close to the wall.  If stuck, try 12" of 703 behind you.

[bpape]

If you just can't move, then get as far as you can from ears to wall behind.  I'd recommend something 6" or so thick at a minimum behind you.

Bryan

[Daverz]

Your layout seems excellent to me.

If late, great John Dunlavy and the Audio Physics people are to believed, this arrangement is actually a very good one.  Here's a description of the Audio Physics speaker placement method:

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/audiophysic.html

And this is from my Dunlavy SC-III manual:

"All of these potential problems [of short wall placement] can be avoided by simply rotating the room layout 90 degrees such the loudspeakers are located along the longest wall of the room with the listener seated adjacent to the opposite wall directly across from the center-point between the speakers.  The listening position should be close enough to the back-wall (less than about one foot)  to eliminate low-end standing waves between the wall and the listener.

A thick sound-absorbing drape (preferably with a high percentage of sheep's wool) between the listener and the back-wall will further mitigate problems from developing at the low-end of the sound spectrum.  (A low cost alternative is to use a 3 to 4 inch thickness of sound-absorbing polyester foam, perhaps 4x6 feet [the accompanying diagram of is labeled ACOUSTICAL FOAM, 4' WIDE, 7' HIGH], affixed to the wall behind an attractive drape, preferably one containing at least some natural wool (which will help to absorb mid and high frequencies).  This arrangement provides the most accurate spectral-balance, the smoothest and deepest bass, and most natural imaging and soundstage."

[gsm18439]

Here is a different approach that might be worth exploring.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65908.0

[TRM]

Your layout seems excellent to me.

If late, great John Dunlavy and the Audio Physics people are to believed, this arrangement is actually a very good one.  Here's a description of the Audio Physics speaker placement method:

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/audiophysic.html

And this is from my Dunlavy SC-III manual:

"All of these potential problems [of short wall placement] can be avoided by simply rotating the room layout 90 degrees such the loudspeakers are located along the longest wall of the room with the listener seated adjacent to the opposite wall directly across from the center-point between the speakers.  The listening position should be close enough to the back-wall (less than about one foot)  to eliminate low-end standing waves between the wall and the listener.

excellent, thanks

I actually like the layout and sound of the room. It is a bit lively but I think once I get the treatments on the wall and 1st reflection points it will be a very nice room to relax in.

Thanks for all of the responses and links.

[Daverz]

By the way, another aspect of the Dunlavy arrangement was creating a wiiiide soundstage with a speaker separation up to 100 degrees*.   I don't know how this would work with the B&Ws.  You might try moving them further apart and see how you like it.     

*Dunlavys have symmetrically arranged drivers that are stepped in the baffle so that the whole arrangement is a monopole radiator in the far field.  This makes the phantom center image very stable, allowing for wide separations without the "hole in the middle".

[TRM]

By the way, another aspect of the Dunlavy arrangement was creating a wiiiide soundstage with a speaker separation up to 100 degrees*.   I don't know how this would work with the B&Ws.  You might try moving them further apart and see how you like it.     

*Dunlavys have symmetrically arranged drivers that are stepped in the baffle so that the whole arrangement is a monopole radiator in the far field.  This makes the phantom center image very stable, allowing for wide separations without the "hole in the middle".

Thanks

I've actually played with the speaker placement quite a bit. I've got them pretty well dialed in right now, I'm hoping I can decrease the toe-in and space them out a bit more once I get the room treated.

[rhyno]

would be curious to know expert opinion on if diffusion or absorption is the way to go when you're < 1' from the wall behind your head.

FWIW, i'm going absorption w/ one 703 panel, covered w/ poly battling, and questioning if i should 2x thickness of the 703, or scratch altogether and go diffusion.

many thanks
rc

[Housteau]

My room is set-up in a similar way with the speakers and listener on the long wall.  I did it for the reasons mentioned in the Dunlay set-up proceedure.  In fact I was influenced by them years ago.  My room still has a few issues as can be seen in my recent thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69957.0.  But, they are not severe.

In truth I deviated from the Dunlavy set-up by having my listening seat a bit further out away from the back wall, as other research and forums said that was the way to go.  Maybe I should do some more testing actually moving my seat back and see what that does, just for fun of course.  Who knows, just maybe the key is waiting to be found in a place current wisdom says it shouldn't be?

[TRM]

Just an update.

I ordered 3 24"x24"x2" panels from ATS Acoustics. Got home a bit ago and am playing with placement on the wall behind the couch. I can hear the difference, highs are of course tamed a bit and the image is cleaner., I think the bass has more punch to it as well I'll do some serious listening this weekend but I think this was a good start.

[rhyno]

i'm backed up against a wall in a small room and here's my experiences (subject to change w/ new experiences).

bass trap as much of the rear wall as poss--use panels @ junction of floor & wall, tube traps in corners. but tune these so they are reflective of mid & high frequencies. i'd be willing to guess that when you're sitting adjacent to the rear wall that the rear wall reflections are so quick (from a millisecond standpoint to reach the ear) that the brain simply ignores them. when i tried absorbing high freq's on rear wall, room was a little dead (not awful, just not as good as reflecting). but absorbing bass w/ thicker panels / traps along rear wall is imperative...bass obscures info, and you're sitting on top of max bass locations (wall junctions)

front wall: keep as absorbent as poss, across all freq's. my thinking goes if rear wall absorbs bass but reflects high freq (which are too quick in reflection times to be interpreted by the brain), then have front wall absorb high freq such that there's no comb filtering when a reflection goes from rear wall to front wall and back to listening seat.

side wall reflections: absorption works.

hope it helps. btw, you going to the phish shows in CA in oct? (i went to the hampton shows in march. unreal.)

[TRM]

I'll be at Indio, Hampton was great fun (my 30th birthday the 3rd night) and Red Rocks was unbelievable 

Thanks for the pointers 

[TRM]

anyone have any thoughts on placement? I have 3 seperate panels that I'd like to place on the wall directly behind the couch. Should I space them relatively close together, say 1", which would give me coverage along the seated portion of the listening couch or should I space them out a bit farther? the couch is on the long (20') wall, basically centered.

[rhyno]

if the panels are thick enough for bass absorption, best place to start is in corners, as that's where bass is typically a problem.  again, wall junctions w/ floor as biggest bass problems, and thats the biggest gotcha w/ sitting against rear wall.

if the panels are not thick enough (4" +) maybe get tube traps for corners, and then panels along @ you.

[TRM]

they're 2" panels with wood backs so not good for bass absorption. Bass traps for the corners are next on the list of purchases.

Thanks