[Browntrout]

Hello, I've been told that SET phonostages are not very good. My phonostage is SET but the later models that ART Audio make are not SET I believe and have been advised to change to one of these.
  Is SET design limited in this application or can I hold on to my desire to have SET throughout?

[Niteshade]

I am not very familiar with this company. Do you mean the preamp is wired in a push-pull configuration?

[woodsyi]

Hello, I've been told that SET phonostages are not very good. My phonostage is SET but the later models that ART Audio make are not SET I believe and have been advised to change to one of these.
  Is SET design limited in this application or can I hold on to my desire to have SET throughout?

What other phono stages do they have besides, Vinyl One, Vinyl Ref, and Alana with phono?

[JoshK]

There seems to be some confusion and a lot of marketing jargon in this thread.  SET is single ended triode, usually reserved for the topology of a special class of tube amps.  I've never heard a phono stage's gain topology refered to as SET even if it uses triodes in single ended gain stages.

That said, many vinyl enthusiasts would argue that nothing touches a tube phono stage, although an opamp phono stage can sound nice.  Allen Wright uses tubes but does so in a balanced configuration (akin to push-pull in amps). 

Generally it is more expensive to design a good tube phono than a solid state design.  It is also trickier to deal with noise in tube designs, but there are ways to do it.  Some like hybrid designs, and the phono stage I am working on could be considered a hybrid design in some ways. 

[Browntrout]

      "There seems to be some confusion and a lot of marketing jargon in this thread."

Well as far as I'm aware the Art Audio VP1 is SET. I could quite easily be wrong, am I?

 Here is a phono stage described as SET...
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/audionote_k3phono.html

[woodsyi]

I don't know if Vinyl One is SET or not.  I know that it uses 3 12ax7s (dual triode).  One of the reviewer described it a "class-A, phase-correct design that uses a single 12AX7 per channel (and) one 12AX7 as cathode follower."  It's not balanced and only has single end output.  So in my book, you can call it SET.  No matter what you call it, I love the sound.  I even compared it to Vinyl Reference and I liked it better. It is the opposite of "sterile" in so many ways -- both good and bad (a little). 

[Browntrout]

Hello Woodsyi, I know the Reference is not SET but a hybrid MOSFET/triode design. Probably why you preferred the One.
  I spoke with Tom Willis (the designer for Art Audio) about changing the caps in my amps and he suggested a better improvement could be achieved from replacing my VP1 with one of the later phonostages. The thing is I don't want to loose what I've got if you know what I mean, I don't see the point in having a SET power amp (diavolo) after a hybrid/push-pull/solid state phono as surely I'd be missing out?
  Your system is very nice by the way, thanks for posting.

[JoshK]

Hello Woodsyi, I know the Reference is not SET but a hybrid MOSFET/triode design. Probably why you preferred the One.
  I spoke with Tom Willis (the designer for Art Audio) about changing the caps in my amps and he suggested a better improvement could be achieved from replacing my VP1 with one of the later phonostages. The thing is I don't want to loose what I've got if you know what I mean, I don't see the point in having a SET power amp (diavolo) after a hybrid/push-pull/solid state phono as surely I'd be missing out?
  Your system is very nice by the way, thanks for posting.

Sounds like he wants to sell you a new phono stage.  I would first try to upgrade the caps and see where you are.  That shouldn't be expensive (unless maybe if you buy them from AN, which gouges for caps). 

[Browntrout]

Changing the caps would still run to about three or four hundred pounds, with the phonostage currently having a pair of Kimber caps (which I think can quite easily be surpassed) and the power amp having a pair of Hovland Musicaps (alot harder to beat I think).
  I honestly don't think he was trying to sell another phonostage I think he was giving me the best advice, I know my stage is not regarded as the best product they have made but I still enjoy listening very much indeed.

[woodsyi]

I have spoken to Joe Fratus over here.  You can't tell with out trying the reference if it would work better or not.  Like furniture rearrangement and Feng Shui, equipment synergy can't be predicted absolutely.  What worked in your vision can be disaster in reality.  You may get the best of both:  accuracy with the Reference Phono and the SET magic from your Diavolos.  With my tube happy Io phono stage, I use a SS line stage (MBL).  Can you test drive a Vinyl Ref in your house?

[Quiet Earth]

Browntrout,

I agree with Josh. No one ever describes a pre-amp or a phono stage as "single ended" because most of them just are single ended by design. This is true for tube, transistor and op amp designs. Generally speaking, it's common practice to cascade single gain stages to achieve a certain amount of total gain at the component level. Even within the power amplifier, the gain up to the output stage is usually single ended. Again, this is true of tube and transistor amps. So who ever told you that single ended phono stages were "bad" might have been trying to tell you something else.

Maybe they meant to tell you that tube phono stages were noisy. This is very common, especially for moving coil tube phono stages. It's not easy to achieve 60 dB of gain using all tubes and keep it quiet. It is possible, but it's not easy and not cheap.

I don't see the point in having a SET power amp after a hybrid/push-pull/solid state phono

 I understand your concern here, but sometimes you have to listen to results before you judge. For example, I was surprised at how good the little Graham Slee Reflex phono stage sounded when I owned it. How could this little unassuming op amp design sound better than my old Counterpoint SA5 (tube) phono, and the entry level Audion (tube) phono stage. Why did I like it more than the entry level Whest (transistor)phono stage which costs twice as much?  Didn't matter to me. I kept it until I could afford a tube phono stage that beat it.