Just Ordered a Coronet2 Kit Today!!!

schwarcw · « **on:** 1 Jul 2009, 02:55 am »

Greetings!

I'm a long time lurker who doesn't post that often. I'm currently using a friend of mine's Ripper as a phono pre. I've taken the plunge and ordered the Coronet2. My system is almost exclusively Parasound Halo pre/pro, A21 amps horizontally biamped to my big polk speakers. I have a very nice vintage Yamaha turntable that works flawlessly and looks beautiful with the thick Lexan cover and the cherry colored wood base. I'm using a Denon DL160 cartridge that doesn't offer the best match with the Ripper which is limited in it's gain.

I've done some searches on the Hagerman threads to get some ideas of components to order. Jeff Glowacki at Soniccraft is having a 20% of sale on most of his components. A lot of the various threads here recommend Sonicaps, Jupiter and Mills parts. I also want gold plated RCA jacks. Sonicraft also sells those in Vampire and Cardas. They also sell Auricap, but that and their Platinum Teflon caps are not on sale. What is "Lansing chassis. Dales and Vishay nudes in the direct signal path" I was going to go with the Mundorf and Sonicaps. I have limited kit building experience, and my job has but a lot of demand on my time lately. However, a good friend of mine who is very experienced has offered to build the Coronet2 for me.

Right now, I'm looking for some general experiences from the Coronet2 builders, lessons learned, do's and don'ts and also some recommended parts and vendors.

Your guidance and advice is very much appreciated.

Regards,

Carl

PatOMalley · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 03:07 am »

I love my cornet2.
But I live in the area of two antenna farms and I get hum thru the Cornet2.
I know this is induced as I removed the cover on my very quiet Cambridge 640p and got hum from it as well. When i covered up the case no more hum.

So if you are in the vicinity of radio towers I would enclose the machine in an aluminum chassis. Tubes inside, everything.

I like the one I have finished but am thinking about building another in a sealed enclosure.

WGH · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 05:37 am »

Here are a few thoughts to start:

A Lansing chassis is the box that everything fits into
http://www.lansing-enclosures.com/

Use only traditional lead solder, that way the pre-amp will last for at least for 50 years.

Don't forget to add a few Russian Teflon FT-3 .1uF bypass caps to your order, get them on eBay.

Mondorf's (C208) and Sonicaps are a great first choice, I used Gen1's at C206, C200, C202, & C204; and a Platinum at C203.

All the resistors below C208 are in the direct signal path.

Wayne

analog97 · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 05:07 pm »

Carl,

I will finally get my wish!! That is to compare a fully-loaded Cornet2 to my Auricap/Stock Cornet2! As you know, I successfully built mine as a first project. That said, Scomp will have ZERO trouble building your Cornet2. Make sure you check out the posts from Tubesforever and others about using better resistors. Some folks here swear by that upgrade. If I can help in any way, let me know. My only suggestion is a simple one. If you are putting this into a hand-made chassis, you might consider spacing the RCA jacks a tad more than normal and don't put the ground lug too close to the RCA's. Just simple ergonomics. Best wishes.

tubesforever · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 02:08 am »

Carl, welcome to our family.

This is a great group of helpful folk you will come to know like family members! I cannot tell you how much I learn on user sites.

Basically you can build your C2 in any way your budget and system requires.

Want a warm presentation? Perfer something crisp and clean? Need wider soundstaging or better imaging? We can point the way to some decent passive parts to make your build less expensive.

The C2 is one superb platform for the money.

I think I started all the talk about resistors in the direct signal pathway. Jim Hagerman has stated here many times that EVERY component on the board is going to impact the sound and I fully and completely agree. However these S102 nude Vishays are 11.95 each! And they are rated at only 0.60 watts so you cannot use them everywhere on the board. That's because as the current rises the .6 watt resistors will become noisy as they reach their limits.

For expense sake and for reasons noted above, I am using nude Vishay S102 resistors in the direct signal pathway only. They give me detail and clarity I am not willing to give up. Luckily these are assembled in Texas so you can buy them a couple bucks cheaper directly from their source. I think the company's name is Texas Components and their equivalent resistor is about 9.75 or so from what I remember.

I would use Kiwami 2 watt carbon comps everywhere else other than using a Mills 20 watt resistor for the heater voltage step down. I like the heater voltage to run between 6.05 and 6.15 volts in my system.

If the Vishays are too pricey, I recommend the 1 watt PRP resistors, but for anything feeding or grounding the B+ I also suggest Kiwami's because these guys are tough and as the current rises they have more headroom. That can make for a quieter background.

As for cap selection, you need to let us know what you love to play music wise, what size room, what speakers and amplification. This will help us point you to some good caps so you don't spin a half dozen like I did!

Cheers!

Pat, I ended up listening mostly to CD's for 10 years when I lived close to the country radio station in Portland Oregon. That was 10 years of hell by the way. Gorgeous home, neat system in custom cabinetry and country music in the background when playing LP's. Basically I had 75 kilowatts slamming into the phono source and no matter what I did Randy Travis was there to console me.

My PF C7 was a fully enclosed case and the grounds were nice and tidy. The arm tube on the tonearm was a high nickle stainless, and I double shielded every cable.

Luckily the cdp, radio, and surround sound were perfect. At least I had music.

Hummmmm, What to try?

Pat did you twist all the line and neutral pairings off the transformer?

You might want to try some double shielded IC's and power cords.

Ferrite beads come in handy, perhaps Win can send you some. He collects them from what I understand

. Tell him to send me some too!

Run those on your phono input leads on your output leads to the Clarinet and on all your power supply cords.

I understand that the power of a major market FM station can be 100 kilowatts.

Perhaps using sheet rock with lead (used in xray room construction) is the way to go. Expensive but would likely make for a very quiet room and protect you during a nuclear attack.

If its hum, then perhaps the SUT is at fault. I had to use a Piccolo here in Reno to get my phono really quiet. My Cinemag was not quiet enough.

Have you tried a HOMC or MI/MM cartridge?

Cheers!

PatOMalley · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 02:30 am »

not the SUT. no way. i did a small test opening my very quiet Cambridge 640p and it hummed with the chassis open. No that little thing has the gain stage covered in copper and it still hummed with the lid off. lid back on and quiet.

So, I feel pretty sure at this point it is the atmosphere that sucks. I really like the Cornet2. Two choices:
1. Build another one in a copper box.
2. try out another sealed tube preamp.
2b. keep all phono preamps that are aquired.

schwarcw · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 08:15 pm »

Thanks for all the feedback, warm welcome and words of encouragement. Analog97 got me hooked when I heard his so here I am!

Quote from: tubesforever on 3 Jul 2009, 02:08 am

Want a warm presentation? Perfer something crisp and clean? Need wider soundstaging or better imaging? We can point the way to some decent passive parts to make your build less expensive.

As for cap selection, you need to let us know what you love to play music wise, what size room, what speakers and amplification. This will help us point you to some good caps so you don't spin a half dozen like I did!

Cheers!

My musical tastes are widely varied. I enjoy, jazz, classical, pop, some good classic rock and the old Motown sound is also fun.

I am currently using the Polk SDA SRS 2.3's that I've performed some crossover mods, the newer soft dome tweeters and some other tweeks. My electronics are all Parasound Halo. C2 pre/pro, and (2) A21 power amps horizontally biamping the big Polks. The Polks are about 5 or 6 ohm depending on varied opinions, but the net result is I should have around 700 watts per channel. The Polk/Parasound Halo combination produces a wide, deep and detailed soundstage. I'm using a Modwright Sony N999ES with the Platinum mods and a tube rectified power supply. I'm using a Mullard rectifier 5AR4 B31 series is I can remember. I have some old Tungsol 5687 tubes in the Sony's output stage. This gives me the touch of warmth that I like. I use MIT Shotgun S1 interconnects and speaker cables throughout the system (except for the turntable, which has the stock cables)

My Vintage Yamaha YP800 is certainly not a top of the line component. The Denon DL160 I've found to be a very nice cartridge. The Coronet2 will be my first step up in the vinyl portion of my system.

In summary, I'm looking to maintain the enjoyment I get from the wide soundstage with the deep and detailed sound with a touch of warmth. Audio Nirvana LOL!

Thanks again for all the advice and greetings!

Carl

tubesforever · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 06:28 am »

The Polk SRS speakers sound a bit warm and enveloping in my experience.

I would definitely use Mundorf Silver in Oil caps at the final position like I am doing. Bypassing these with Russian Teflon FT-3 caps gives the sound clarity, expansiveness, and the most seductive dynamic qualities. Your Polks will love this combo.

The nude Vishays are an option. In my opinion they are manditory for what I need to hear. However, don't discount what I said about Kiwami resistors everywhere else. They are very clear and very musical.

You will find these in Boulder's 30k dollar phono preamp. Enough said.

I would use Nichicons for the 10,000 uf 16 V H+ power supply. They fit really well and sound great. I love my Panasonic ED 47uf 450v caps. You might need to go with the EE versions that replaced the ED models. They are supposed to be a direct replacement and sound even nicer.

Where you will love the C2 is how it changes character with any tubes you roll. Want the sound warm and inviting, or cold and calculated? Just a simple tube swap can help you dial in the sound. I love demonstrating the C2 whenever I can because this level of system matching makes audio a lot more fun.

Pat, I don't think the tubes being in mid air is where you are picking up the RF. I suspect that the Transformer hung in mid air is the culpret.

Here is a way to evaluate this. Buy some TI from any source you can. Wrap it around the transformer and see if that quiets things down. You can make up a box for it from mu metal if it helps.

I think lining the inside of the case work with copper foil will help as well. Mu Metal is expensive but it will help the issue. TI is actually copper alloy with high nickle stainless steel. It is essentially Mu Metal designed for audio spectrum noise abatement.

If you copper line the casework and TI shield the transformer this should do what the Cambridge is doing. You might use TI shield on the top cover holding the transformer as well.

Don't forget to nag Win about those ferrite rings for RFI. They work wonders. You can use them inside the case surrounding the transformer wires before they get to the board. You can put them on all the IC's as well. This helps more than you know.

Cheers!

PatOMalley · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 03:17 pm »

yep Jim,

I have been searching around for an already made transformer cover that will do but haven't found anything I like yet. If you see something let me know. I have some copper tape I will line the chassis with ... my cornet is up on blocks now waiting for it's replacement resisters but i was going to try the tin foil hat over the whole top of the preamp. What else might do is a cage for the cop that would ask as a faraday.

And tube shields are mandatory in this environment as well but the top cover, cage, is the trick. Copper mesh painted black.

Quote from: tubesforever on 4 Jul 2009, 06:28 am

Pat, I don't think the tubes being in mid air is where you are picking up the RF. I suspect that the Transformer hung in mid air is the culpret.

Here is a way to evaluate this. Buy some TI from any source you can. Wrap it around the transformer and see if that quiets things down. You can make up a box for it from mu metal if it helps.

I think lining the inside of the case work with copper foil will help as well. Mu Metal is expensive but it will help the issue. TI is actually copper alloy with high nickle stainless steel. It is essentially Mu Metal designed for audio spectrum noise abatement.

If you copper line the casework and TI shield the transformer this should do what the Cambridge is doing. You might use TI shield on the top cover holding the transformer as well.

Don't forget to nag Win about those ferrite rings for RFI. They work wonders. You can use them inside the case surrounding the transformer wires before they get to the board. You can put them on all the IC's as well. This helps more than you know.

Cheers!

Big Jim · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 03:36 pm »

It's a great board and for the price how can you go wrong? I put mine in a hammond chassis and already had enough Solens to get the job done. Total cost under $250.

The fact is this thing is so well designed that just about any caps and tubes will make you happy with this rig.

Mad props to Mr. Hag for such a great piece of kit oh and mine is hum free.

schwarcw · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 04:18 am »

Quote from: tubesforever on 4 Jul 2009, 06:28 am

I would definitely use Mundorf Silver in Oil caps at the final position like I am doing. Bypassing these with Russian Teflon FT-3 caps gives the sound clarity, expansiveness, and the most seductive dynamic qualities. Your Polks will love this combo.

Cheers!

A Clarification please, are you talking about the Mundorf SIO in the C208 position with the FT-3 by passing this cap?

Are these Russian PIO with the metal casings? What do you recommend for insulation (clear preferably)

Thanks!

Carl

tubesforever · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 05:14 am »

Hi Carl, check your mail, I sent back part one of the material you asked me to review.

I cover all the Russian caps with clear shrink wrap. The cases are aluminum and are conductive. Safety first!

C203 are the incoming signal caps. Their values are 0.10 uf 400v. These prevent woofer pumping but need to be as sonically clear as humanly possible. I would recommend trying a pair of the Russian FT-2 teflons in 0.10uf 200v caps. These are mil spec caps and Michael Samra has tested these things to 600 volts without failure. He uses these in a lot of his current tube gear.

You could try the Auricap teflons, the V-Caps, or the Richard Marsh Teflons but they will be a hideously expensive experiment if you don't like what they do for the sound.

The C208 are the final output caps. I am running a pair of Mundorf SIO 0.82uf and a pair of Russian FT-3 0.22uf 600v caps. In parallel I get 1.0 uf which is what the circuit calls for.

If you want to spin these in and play a bit. Try a SIO 1.0 uf 1200v cap and after a few weeks parallel an FT-2 or FT-2 0.10uf cap.

Then hold on and see how you like the show. Give these caps about 50 hours to break in. They will sound as if someone took them out. Leaving only the clarity and dynamics without any extra technicolor branding.

I have some of the K40Y9 PIO RIAA caps very closely matched. These sounded better than the REL caps I tried. The REL caps are very tasty by the way but I prefer the PIO in this position. These are C202 and C204.

Cheers!

schwarcw · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jul 2009, 01:54 am »

The board arrived on Saturday!!!! I've got to get busy ordering some parts this week.

Anybody have some experience or recommendations about putting the power switch in the front of the unit? I would think shielding the wire or using a relay to switch on the power could be an option.

tubesforever · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jul 2009, 07:41 am »

I braided the wires, then shielded them, then placed them inside conduit.....

With my caps off on the side, I was picking up 60hz bleed through. I ended up using the conduit and moving the caps as centrally as possible.

All good now the Cornet 2 is very quiet.

If you don't have to have the power switch up front then ditch the idea. It will be easier to keep the C2 quiet if you put the power switch in the back.

SCompRacer · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 04:11 am »

Hello to the denizens of the Hagerman forum. My name is Rich and I just started building Carl's Coronet2. Carl is more than capable to build it, but his job leaves him with little free time so I volunteered. I thank Carl for trusting me to do this and hope he doesn't regret it.

Thanks to Larry, tubesforver, and whomever else provided the build tips.

I have a scope and wanted to test the Coronet2 when finished. Carl ordered an inverse RIAA Filter from Jim. I need to come up with a square wave generator. There are lots for sale on ebay, and I was looking for some guidance before purchasing one. Any particular brands recommended? Budget ~ $100 enough?

Thanks!

Rich

hagtech · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 10:54 pm »

Are you using an oscilloscope to measure? If so, they often have a 1kHz or so calibration waveform for adjusting compensated probes. You can use it for a signal.

jh

mooglie · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Aug 2009, 05:47 pm »

You might try using a software tone generator. SigJenny from Natch might work, and it's free

You connect the sound card out from your computer to the inlets of the audio components. You can then configure the desired signal type in the software, and measure the voltage output on the measured device.

I used one of these for testing when I built the active crossover for my NaO loudspeakers.

SCompRacer · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Aug 2009, 06:10 pm »

Thanks for the replies. Jim, I am guessing it would be the 300mV 30mA ~1KHz calibrator bar at the top left of the linked picture? I am keeping in mind the 250mV overload spec on the Coronet2. Thanks!

mooglie, thanks for the input. I like the free part.

schwarcw · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Aug 2009, 02:38 am »

Rich does outstanding work! Let me share a sneak peak at a couple pics of the Coronet 2 board under construction

Thanks Rich! Lookin' good!

Carl

hagtech · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Aug 2009, 08:33 am »

Quote

guessing it would be the 300mV 30mA ~1KHz calibrator

Yep, that's it. Use it as a voltage source (wrt ground) for driving the iRIAA Filter. Old Tek scopes are awesome.

jh