Looking for advice, sub to go with ST's ?

snakecharmr99 · « **on:** 27 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm »

Hey gang. Looking for a little help on a sub to go with my hopefully soon to be finished ST's. I've got A pair of STRT's, a SCRT and a pair of SS's on order. I have about a $1500 budget for a sub. I kind of narrowed it down to either a SVS PB-13 Ultra or a HSU ULS-15. Usage would be about 50-50 home theater and music. Room is approx. 20x12 opening into a 10x10 dining room. I live in Ohio, so I would pay tax on the Ultra, bringing it's price to about $550 more than the HSU. Thanks for any replies and or suggestions, Bob.

rockadanny · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 12:46 pm »

I do not know the subs you've listed, but if you like music at all you should concentrate on getting a sub which is great for music. Subs which impress for HT typically are not so great for music. ACI has a terrific sale going on until tomorrow. Get the very musical Titan XL Powered Sub for an incredible price: $999.

I tried many and for music this one came out on top, and it was also awarded "five blue notes" from Enjoy the Music - pretty amazing for a subwoofer.

http://www.audioc.com/specials1/specials.htm#Speaker%20Start

It is terrific for music. I have a pair and in my room together they measure +-3dB to 20Hz, and -5dB at 15Hz. Plenty good for HT.

Act quickly and snatch this one up!

vintagebob · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 01:13 pm »

Jim makes a sub as well.

http://www.salksound.com/speakers_songseries_songsub.shtml

TJHUB · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 01:20 pm »

Quote from: snakecharmr99 on 27 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm

Hey gang. Looking for a little help on a sub to go with my hopefully soon to be finished ST's. I've got A pair of STRT's, a SCRT and a pair of SS's on order. I have about a $1500 budget for a sub. I kind of narrowed it down to either a SVS PB-13 Ultra or a HSU ULS-15. Usage would be about 50-50 home theater and music. Room is approx. 20x12 opening into a 10x10 dining room. I live in Ohio, so I would pay tax on the Ultra, bringing it's price to about $550 more than the HSU. Thanks for any replies and or suggestions, Bob.

Either sub is a great choice. I own a PB13-Ultra and I am very satisfied with it's performance for music (the primary use of my setup) and it's an animal for HT (although I tend not to listen all too loud). I've had my Ultra for about a year now and I've been thinking long and hard about getting a pair of ULS-15's. I just can't seem to bring myself to sell my Ultra to buy the ULS's...

Either sub is going to perform extremely well. If it were my decision, I'd go with the ULS-15 for it's smaller size, connection options (flexibility), and lower price. The PB13-Ultra would be a better performer for HT, but that's about it.

I can't stress this next point enough: You MUST have some way to EQ any sub. Subwoofers are victims of the rooms they are in. Room size and shape, subwoofer placement, and your seating position are all huge factors in frequency response and output performance of the sub. After using my Behringer Feedback Destroyer to EQ my subs over last year and a half, I'd NEVER do without EQ'ing again. The difference in sound is staggering!

zybar · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 01:22 pm »

Can you build a sub?

I am confident that the open baffle sub from GR Research would be killer and you could build a pair with two drivers per baffle + amplification for less than your $1,500 budget.

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 01:26 pm »

Quote from: TJHUB on 27 Jun 2009, 01:20 pm

Quote from: snakecharmr99 on 27 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm

I can't stress this next point enough: You MUST have some way to EQ any sub. Subwoofers are victims of the rooms they are in. Room size and shape, subwoofer placement, and your seating position are all huge factors in frequency response and output performance of the sub. After using my Behringer Feedback Destroyer to EQ my subs over last year and a half, I'd NEVER do without EQ'ing again. The difference in sound is staggering!

Second that. Get a sub from Jim and an EQ unit like the QSC 30 or SMS or other unit and you'll be in the big leagues. You can always add more subs to the same EQ unit later.

audiotom · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 04:42 pm »

I have a JL Audio F113 and it is killer with my V3's and monster center. Don't need one for my HT3s

You can get them for around $2k on audiogon
or go with the F112 or 110 for less

do a search on audiogon and you will see what all the buzz is about with the JL stuff
plus it doesn't take up a lot of room

Nuance · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 06:34 pm »

Have Jim build you a Rythmik 15" or dual passive 15" sub. I dunno what Jim and Brian (from Rythmik) charge for the dual passive, but I bet it's unbeatable for the price. I think someone said it could be tuned to 18Hz, and with room gain it'll probably go flat to darn near 10Hz.

The PB13 Ultra is a great sub - the only ported one I've heard that I like when playing music. If going sealed, though, I say have Jim build you one, or a passive sub. You could also bump the budget to $2000 and get the best sealed sub around - the Seaton Submersive.

Oh, and I completely agree about EQing the sub. It's a necessity for music.

Enjoy the search.

MichiganMike · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 09:07 pm »

I am using a Velodyne SPL1200R with my SongTowers and have been pleased with the result. I crossover to the sub at 45 hz using my Parasound C2 processor. The Velodyne sub adds deep bass impact, is quick and blends almost seamlessly with the SongTowers. The linked review comments that this is one of the more musical subs the reviewer has experienced. http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/velodyne_spl1200r.shtml

The Velodyne SPL series has a built in equalizer and comes complete with a microphone to conduct an automated equalization to tame the room modes. The sub has a remote which not only adjusts the volume and turns the sub on and off but has different settings for movies, rock and jazz with slightly different emphasis and cutoffs. The remote is handy for me as my sub is difficult to reach largely hidden from view under a corner table.

The Velodyne SPL series has been discontinued replaced by the Optimum series. You may still be able to find the SPL1200 at under $1000 or the Optimum-12 as a demo for slightly more.

rllrll · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 09:44 pm »

Also looking for a sub for my STRT's 2 ch. system. Any comments on the Rythmik D15SE? 90% for music, 10% HT. Not listen to a down firing sub before.

Would like to stay under $2,000. Location is a 20' x 30' with 12' ceiling living room, so I need a good satin or gloss black finish to match my STRT.

Thanks,
RL

jsalk · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: rllrll on 27 Jun 2009, 09:44 pm

Also looking for a sub for my STRT's 2 ch. system. Any comments on the Rythmik D15SE? 90% for music, 10% HT. Not listen to a down firing sub before.

Would like to stay under $2,000. Location is a 20' x 30' with 12' ceiling living room, so I need a good satin or gloss black finish to match my STRT.

Thanks,
RL

We just built a 15" Rythmik sub for a customer (to match his SongTowers) and I have to say I was very impressed. The drivers were a design very similar to the TC Sounds drivers we originally used in our HT3's. In fact, Thilo may have even designed the drivers and had them manufactured off shore. The only difference (other than the size of the cone) is an extra voice coil (sensing coil) for the servo feedback circuit.

The servo circuitry did a very nice job and the bass produced was clean, musical and very detailed.

All in all, it was a real winner in my book.

- Jim

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 01:23 am »

whatever sub you decide on, i would recommend a pair, if for music, and use an outboard active x-over that will allow you to relieve the st's and their amplification from seeing the lowest octave. two subs are easier to integrate into a room than one, and offer better soundstaging and lower distortion. actively crossing over your mains will allow them to perform better as their midwoofers and the amps driving them really would rather not have to see those low frequencies...

doug s.

DMurphy · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 03:16 am »

Quote from: doug s. on 28 Jun 2009, 01:23 am

whatever sub you decide on, i would recommend a pair, if for music, and use an outboard active x-over that will allow you to relieve the st's and their amplification from seeing the lowest octave. two subs are easier to integrate into a room than one, and offer better soundstaging and lower distortion. actively crossing over your mains will allow them to perform better as their midwoofers and the amps driving them really would rather not have to see those low frequencies...

doug s.

An integrated active crossover (matched low and high pass filters) is certainly ideal, although the sub out from a HT receiver should provide some filtering if the mains are set to small. My problem is that I haven't been able to locate a decent stand-alone crossover that doesn't cost more arms and legs than I would like to give up. You would think a simple two-way for sub use could be done for $350, but the Bryston is waaaaay more, and I didn't see any Marchands in this price range.

TJHUB · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 03:46 am »

Quote from: rllrll on 27 Jun 2009, 09:44 pm

Also looking for a sub for my STRT's 2 ch. system. Any comments on the Rythmik D15SE? 90% for music, 10% HT. Not listen to a down firing sub before.

Would like to stay under $2,000. Location is a 20' x 30' with 12' ceiling living room, so I need a good satin or gloss black finish to match my STRT.

Thanks,
RL

If 90% music, the Rythmiks are incredible. You won't be disappointed in any way. Down-firing makes no appreciable difference in sound.

TF1216 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 03:57 am »

Dennis,

What is wrong with the Behringer CX2310 as an active crossover? It is very cheap.

doug s. · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 05:40 am »

Quote from: DMurphy on 28 Jun 2009, 03:16 am

Quote from: doug s. on 28 Jun 2009, 01:23 am
whatever sub you decide on, i would recommend a pair, if for music, and use an outboard active x-over that will allow you to relieve the st's and their amplification from seeing the lowest octave. two subs are easier to integrate into a room than one, and offer better soundstaging and lower distortion. actively crossing over your mains will allow them to perform better as their midwoofers and the amps driving them really would rather not have to see those low frequencies...

doug s.

An integrated active crossover (matched low and high pass filters) is certainly ideal, although the sub out from a HT receiver should provide some filtering if the mains are set to small. My problem is that I haven't been able to locate a decent stand-alone crossover that doesn't cost more arms and legs than I would like to give up. You would think a simple two-way for sub use could be done for $350, but the Bryston is waaaaay more, and I didn't see any Marchands in this price range.

the marchand xm9 retails for $600, and phil marchand runs specials once in a while. kits are awailable for ~60% of retail. and phil marchand might be amenable to reasonable offers, too...

the marchands also show up occasionally used. and, while i have never done a direct a-b w/the bryston x-over, i ran into a couple folks who had, and said the marchand xm9 is at least as good. if you are wanting to spend bryston money, get a tubed marchand instead!

doug s.

Tyson · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 08:52 am »

I've only heard 2 subs in my life that impressed me with music - VMPS and Rythmik. Both are outstanding, and relatively inexpensive.

DMurphy · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: tf121682 on 28 Jun 2009, 03:57 am

Dennis,

What is wrong with the Behringer CX2310 as an active crossover? It is very cheap.

Wow. 80 bucks. I guess I had Behringer filed away as a more expensive programmable unit. Maybe that would do it (although now I'm suspicious at the other end--how good can it be when the wholesale price couldn't be more than $50 - $60?). Thanks for the tip.

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: jsalk on 27 Jun 2009, 10:39 pm

Quote from: rllrll on 27 Jun 2009, 09:44 pm
Also looking for a sub for my STRT's 2 ch. system. Any comments on the Rythmik D15SE? 90% for music, 10% HT. Not listen to a down firing sub before.

Would like to stay under $2,000. Location is a 20' x 30' with 12' ceiling living room, so I need a good satin or gloss black finish to match my STRT.

Thanks,
RL

We just built a 15" Rythmik sub for a customer (to match his SongTowers) and I have to say I was very impressed. The drivers were a design very similar to the TC Sounds drivers we originally used in our HT3's. In fact, Thilo may have even designed the drivers and had them manufactured off shore. The only difference (other than the size of the cone) is an extra voice coil (sensing coil) for the servo feedback circuit.

The servo circuitry did a very nice job and the bass produced was clean, musical and very detailed.

All in all, it was a real winner in my book.

- Jim

Jim,

Maybe I missed it, but would you please provide some price estimate for building a 15" Rythmik to match ST's in a standard veneer?
Thank you,
Art

Nuance · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 05:03 pm »

Quote from: jsalk on 27 Jun 2009, 10:39 pm

Quote from: rllrll on 27 Jun 2009, 09:44 pm
Also looking for a sub for my STRT's 2 ch. system. Any comments on the Rythmik D15SE? 90% for music, 10% HT. Not listen to a down firing sub before.

Would like to stay under $2,000. Location is a 20' x 30' with 12' ceiling living room, so I need a good satin or gloss black finish to match my STRT.

Thanks,
RL

We just built a 15" Rythmik sub for a customer (to match his SongTowers) and I have to say I was very impressed. The drivers were a design very similar to the TC Sounds drivers we originally used in our HT3's. In fact, Thilo may have even designed the drivers and had them manufactured off shore. The only difference (other than the size of the cone) is an extra voice coil (sensing coil) for the servo feedback circuit.

The servo circuitry did a very nice job and the bass produced was clean, musical and very detailed.

All in all, it was a real winner in my book.

- Jim

+1. I've heard Brandon's and was very impressed. It fared very well at our WI sub GTG as well, with most people agreeing it had the sound quality of the JL Audio Fathom 112 at all but extreme SPL's. I highly recommend it!