What makes CD players sound different?

tmd · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Jan 2003, 01:52 pm »

Seppstefano,
You should take a look at Dejans site. It is really very interesting and he has a project to build a PSU which looks great.
Neil.

seppstefano · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 Jan 2003, 02:59 pm »

Ciao Neil,
thank you! Indeed I'm waiting for a couple of boards...

Stefano

DVV · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Jan 2003, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: seppstefano

Ciao Neil,
thank you! Indeed I'm waiting for a couple of boards...

Stefano

Dejan has a big problem with that. The guy was supposed to do them didn't do them, and is thinking up of various excuses, all of which boil down to his not doing it. Why, I don't know, because I'm paying him the same as everybody else.

Eventually, knowing myself, I will be telling him what to do with those boards when and if he ever makes them.

Which means Dejan has to find somebody else.

Cheers,
DVV

MediaSeth · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Jan 2003, 06:40 pm »

I second the wood chopping block under the cdp (or anything). I have a rack for my bedroom system assembled with cheap wood chopping blocks from a hardware store. I also put books on top of the cdp. Vibrapods work, too.

tmd · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 Jan 2003, 08:48 pm »

How about I have a go at answering the question posed. Don't snigger too loudly as you read this though

First, you need to have a transport with as little vibration and as much damping as possible built into it. This means a better transfer of ones and zeros from it to the DAC.
It should also preferably have its own power supply and a blue LED shining up into the mechanism where the laser hits the disc.
Next, you need to have one or multiple high precision DAC's in parallel which are also fed from their own power supply and a very high precision clock to time the DAC(s) so that more of the bits are received for a more accurate sound. I would also assume that the DAC board should ideally be isolated from the rest of the machine as best possible.
Finally, the audio output stage needs to have a very smooth and far larger than necessary dedicated power supply. Perhaps with rechargable batteries so that the audio amplification is done on a pure DC supply.
This circuit uses high quality op amps AD826 or Burr Brown for example. It also uses high quality resistors and capacitors and again, the board is isolated from the rest of the chassis if possible.
Lastly, the chassis itself should be a heavy mother using inert material like very heavy mdf or marble maybe. The lid should also be tank armour thickness.
There you have it, the ultimate CD player. Anyone who wants to use this design, please send me $100k each and you may have the rights to it

DVV · « **Reply #25 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 12:07 am »

Is this topic burnt out?

Nobody is into modifying their CD players over the weekend?

Cheers,
DVV

JoshK · « **Reply #26 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 02:14 am »

I am interested in modifying my CDP. I want to do it myself. I am sorry but $2600 for Dan Wright to mod my player is too much $$$$. I didn't pay that for the player itself. But first I am going to need to learn up a lot more on players. Personally, I find this thread of more timely interest than the amp thread as I had an idea of mod'ing my player semi soon.

Ok, maybe as a motivator for this thread, how 'bout we examine what would need to be mod'd in my player? Superclock? Black gates? caps? bybees? etc. I know there are those that do parts upgrades. How about we examine which will in theory lead to the best performance upgrade. BTW, I have a Sony XA777ES.

FWIW, I have my own theory on upsampling versus non-oversampling. I think it is a direct give and take, there is no way to get both benefits, you will necessarily give something up for the other. It comes down to which you are more sensitive. I see this (as an applied mathematician who has mucho numerical estimation background) as a calculus problem in the finite domain. Remember your calc? Remember how you use rectangular boxes of infinitesimal width to represent the area under a smooth curve? Well this is how the digital represents a smooth analog signal. Their are ways of smoothing the corners of the rectangles, however smoothing, will make it smooth but gives up the edges you want too (prat).

Lex · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 04:23 am »

Perhaps the best inexpensive CD playback option is a used Sony S7000 DVD/CD player. The players are rock solid for CD, having separate optics. DACs are 18 bit, not the best, but usable until you can add an external high end DAC.

Now, I will admit, I took the single unit approach and added a Rega Jupiter using it's internal DACs. Outstanding CD player, and I would guess, even though the DACs are quite good, if I used an external DAC, it could get even better.

But I keep my old S7000 around for a backup, and probably my tube based 2 channel system I am putting together, whenever I have time, lol. I think I will keep the Jupiter on my Classe/Proceed solid state setup.

I heard when the S7000 came out, several people were buying them just for the CD player, that's a pretty good recommendation.

Lex

tmd · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 07:48 am »

I am surprised that this thread hasn't been busier. I for one am very keen to mod the crap out of my unit. My ultimate diy project however is to construct a cdp. I am currently thinking of using a cd drive from a computer as the transport and I would love to try Scott Nixons tubed dac coupled directly to the drive in the same chassis. Then I could dick around with the psus and damping etc to see how it all makes a difference. At the moment, I don't have the cash but when I can afford it, I will probably go for the cd project even before the amp building project.
JoshK, what are you going to try first with the 777? I would've thought the clock upgrade was the most obvious as I am guessing that even in an expensive player, they still use a cheap crystal. Which clock though?

tmd · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 07:50 am »

By the way, I am surprised Rupesh hasn't chimed in here. Rup, are you keeping all your learnings to yourself?

Tyson · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 07:57 am »

Anyone seen the Symphonic Line "Der" CD player? Only unit I've seen w/an external power supply. Makes me wonder what it looks like under the hood. . .

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 08:46 am »

there are now a couple in my gallery, page 2. I was going to pull it and the Erleuchtung out for cleaning and dusting today and saw your post before I started. I will put a pic of the inside of the Erleuchtung up a little later. Is your Erleuchtung breaking in well?

cheers,

Dick

tmd · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 03:08 pm »

The CD player pictured in the gallery has an internal power supply doesn't it?

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 04:04 pm »

yes and no, although I am not entirely sure. There is an external supply that connects to the wall and there are two connections that come out of it, one a standard IEC plug and another, do not know which type, that also comes from the external supply. I have not looked inside the power supply, but maybe it is more of a filter than supply. I am sure Klaus can supply or get a better answer. I was a little surprised when I looked inside too and saw the power type components. Sounds great though!

cheers,

Dick

Marbles · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 02:16 pm »

I just took a look at DAWGs SL CD player and was surprised to see what looked like 6 large (the blue ones) capacitors.

Those look like what you might find in an amplifier! I'm wondering why the need to smooth the electric draw for a CDP?

Also it seems to have the most populated PCB's of any CDP I've ever seen.

Anyone (DVV, Hugh, Dan B, Audioengr etc..) want to comment?

Compare that to the CD-1 (with tube output section)

Marbles · « **Reply #35 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 02:39 pm »

Dawg, or Klaus, does the SL CDP have a volume control so you could run it directly to your amplifier?

Maybe that would explain those caps?

I just looked at my PDF of the SL equipment - English translation, and it says that power transformer is a 300 VA one, and if you have the reference CP player, you have 100,000 uf !!!!!

Those are power amp type numbers!!!!

If anyone wants me to email the .pdf file to them, just email me from the link below and I will send it.

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #36 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 04:03 pm »

Yes, it does have a volume control on the remote, but I hadn't checked until just now and it works, although it came with the volume control maxed and would only adjust down in volume. I haven't used it while listening to see whether it affects the sound or not. I doubt it since the Erleuchtung's volume control doesn't.

Maybe I'll try running it directly unless Klaus chimes in and says I shouldn't for some reason. I can't see why not, unless the level really is low. No, then I'd need longer interconnects....oh well

BTW, no controls at all on the CDP, it is controlled strictly via remote.

cheers,

Dick

JoshK · « **Reply #37 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 04:51 pm »

How much is that badboy?

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #38 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 06:15 pm »

4580 euro, but I'm certain Klaus can get you a better deal. I'm not sure exactly what mine cost because it was part of a system purchase. Mine is "Der" CD player, not the reference, which is 2k euro more.

cheers,

Dick

Marbles · « **Reply #39 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 06:21 pm »

Geez Dick, that's too bad. You have a 300 VA transformer and only 50,000 uf cap filter!

By the way, a PAIR of IRD MB-100 amplifiers have 40,000 uf total cap filter.

Your CD player is almost an all in one box! Some output devices and you don't even need the pre or amps!

In any case it looks very impressive and I'd love to hear it one day.