Can you??

kingdeezie · « **on:** 17 Jun 2009, 12:23 am »

This might be a really stupid question but....

I have a pair of Stratos Mono Extreme SE+s that I purchased from someone used 7 months ago....

In that time I got a pair of Line Source speakers from GR Research....

The other day during stupid loud listening, I clipped the Monos...

I really like the sound, but I obviously need more juice for more headroom...

Since technologically speaking I am pretty naive, I am going to ask....

Can you juice the Stratos amplifiers at all?

pfradale · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 04:18 am »

Just curious, what are the specs on your speakers? Specifically, sensitivity? I only ask because my speakers are ~103dB/W/m and I would literally blow out the windows if I got my Mono Extremes anywhere near clipping.

ecramer · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 09:34 am »

First time i heard of someone not having enough power with the mono's

ED

lazydays · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 08:28 pm »

you have another problem! Those mono SE's are poerfull enough to weld with.

gary

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 09:48 pm »

I don't think it's another problem. My speakers are 91 sensitivity, but are truly full range 20-20k, and have 14 drivers a side.

At that sensitivity, doing the math, at my seating position 11 feet away, it's easy to see how I could clip the amps. 118dbs at 1 meter away would require 512 watts, giving me 112 at my listening position. Clearly 512 watts peak is beyond the reach of the stratos monos extreme se.

ecramer · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 10:25 pm »

If your math is right and that's the volume your going to listen to you have the wrong amps that's for sure and you better buy some ear plugs or you will damage your hearing. I'm driving my MTMWW design 4.7 ohm load 84.5 dbspeakers in a smaller room then yours without any problem to the concert level might want to put some Pass Labs x600.5 on the menu

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jun 2009, 09:48 pm

I don't think it's another problem. My speakers are 91 sensitivity, but are truly full range 20-20k, and have 14 drivers a side.

At that sensitivity, doing the math, at my seating position 11 feet away, it's easy to see how I could clip the amps. 118dbs at 1 meter away would require 512 watts, giving me 112 at my listening position. Clearly 512 watts peak is beyond the reach of the stratos monos extreme se.

pfradale · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 10:34 pm »

Yep, you need different amps, or different speakers.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 10:05 am »

Hmmm. This one is strange and unusual, but :

1. Nope, you already have the Extremes. They are, btw, not set up for maximum wattage but for sound quality and current.
2. The line arrays are obviously no problem for the amps, and I really don't know if the amps or the speakers give up first.
3. 118 dB ???? Are you serious ??????? I'll take it that you don't live in an apartment complex.
4. At that volume, you are in some serious Rock Concert territory.
5. If you really want to get that much dB, then obviously the finer things of an audiophile system will never apply. So yes, you have the wrong amps or speakers for that matter.
Maybe some pro-amp and JBL based system will do this. We're talking about impact at that volume level, not soundstaging or micro-dynamics.
6. If you want your cake and eat it too, having both, an audiophile / music lovers system and a Rock-out system, you might want to look at 2 systems then.
7. Disclaimer/// I have heard one system that did both things very well, which was a big Wilson / Kraft 400 based system in a big room. Even then, I remember the customer having a ratshack level, and it was around 110 - 115 dB. How would I describe it ??? The worlds most expensive hair dryer.

But, anyway, if you are really hung up on high volume, then indeed, give a high Wattage amp a try. However, if you do a lot of regular volume listening and also appreciate the finer things , then please listen carefully.

Good luck,

Klaus

johnzm · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 12:31 pm »

i know of the speakers, and system the poster is talking about. i have also in a similar setup had my odyssey monoblocks clip. i thought it was the speaker but after much talking to the designer of the speaker, i do believe it is the amps.

in which case maybe a 500+ watt amp might be in order, like a W4S SX-1000(580 watts/ch) or perhaps the pass labs mentioned.

btw i was looking for you the other day KD! ive been heavily researching preamps and found something u might be interested in

kingdeezie · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jun 2009, 10:30 pm »

Well, thanks to everyone who has replied in this thread.

I really love my Extreme SEs, I just was hoping to be able to maybe squeeze more power out of them with an upgrade of some sort.

Its not that I don't appreciate microdynamics and soundstage, but, I think a line source can really excell in the dynamics department, and I want the headroom to hit 110 -115 DB peaks without worrying about damaging the drivers in the line sources.

John, I'll try to catch up with you at some point this weekend. Defintely interested in a new pre.

lazydays · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 18 Jun 2009, 10:05 am

Hmmm. This one is strange and unusual, but :

1. Nope, you already have the Extremes. They are, btw, not set up for maximum wattage but for sound quality and current.
2. The line arrays are obviously no problem for the amps, and I really don't know if the amps or the speakers give up first.
3. 118 dB ???? Are you serious ??????? I'll take it that you don't live in an apartment complex.
4. At that volume, you are in some serious Rock Concert territory.
5. If you really want to get that much dB, then obviously the finer things of an audiophile system will never apply. So yes, you have the wrong amps or speakers for that matter.
Maybe some pro-amp and JBL based system will do this. We're talking about impact at that volume level, not soundstaging or micro-dynamics.
6. If you want your cake and eat it too, having both, an audiophile / music lovers system and a Rock-out system, you might want to look at 2 systems then.
7. Disclaimer/// I have heard one system that did both things very well, which was a big Wilson / Kraft 400 based system in a big room. Even then, I remember the customer having a ratshack level, and it was around 110 - 115 dB. How would I describe it ??? The worlds most expensive hair dryer.

But, anyway, if you are really hung up on high volume, then indeed, give a high Wattage amp a try. However, if you do a lot of regular volume listening and also appreciate the finer things , then please listen carefully.

Good luck,

Klaus

do you realize that 118 db is right at the same db as a jet engine in full afterburner? After about five minutes of this you have serious damage to your hearing. How often do the police visit?
I can't stand to be in the same room with my amps rolling at half the volume level
gary

kingdeezie · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 06:58 pm »

That 118 DB number was at 1 M from the speaker...

Sitting 11 feet away from the speaker equates to something like 110 DBs at that position.

I didn't think wanting to reach peaks of 110 DBS from a snare, tom, or cymbal crash was something outrageous.

invicta51 · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 09:06 pm »

First off, I do not mean to be disrespectful here. I have the LS6's with a Dodd battery pre and the mono SE's in a huge room. I can not even imagine turning up the volume to the point of clipping the amps. That is quite the dB appetite. Impressive. My neighbors would call the cops. LOL!

pfradale · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 09:27 pm »

I don't think it's outrageous to want transients that reflect concert-level but I do think it's bad for your hearing and it's definitely nothing city-dwellers could get away with for long... here in Japan I cannot even use 1/4 of the dial on my Tempest... gotta move out to the countryside!

Doublej · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 10:31 pm »

Would this take care of the problem?

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/907mf/

Randy · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 03:19 pm »

Audio advisor had those monster super chargers on sale a little while back. Probably still are.

satfrat · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 03:33 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 21 Jun 2009, 03:19 pm

Audio advisor had those monster super chargers on sale a little while back. Probably still are.

A'gon has a double of these for sale @50% and more off retail here and here.

Cheers,
Robin

mca · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 04:58 pm »

Interesting quote from that Stereophile review:

Quote

The transient peaks in live music can reach high sound pressure levels. For example, John Atkinson, sitting in a mid-hall seat in London's Royal Festival Hall, measured timpani thwacks at +106dB peak back in the early 1980s; reproducing those peaks without clipping and thus generating "slam factor" is what can make the difference between a system sounding "blah" or "wow," between "canned" or "real."

So if you're interested in reproducing musical realism at home, how much power do you really need? More than you might think, says Musical Fidelity's Antony Michaelson, who offers his reasoning in a white paper. Michaelson's bottom line is that with loudspeakers having normal sensitivity, you are going to need at least 500W to reproduce music's transient peaks in your listening room at a realistic level.

ecramer · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 08:36 pm »

But you must ask your self how many people listen " at a realistic level." I can say that i do not normally play my system at the same volume as a live concert nor want to. Why i do think in stereo, like cars, there there is no substitute for horsepower, some level of compromise must be addressed. In this i think to get to an amp that will provide the power for the desired listening level stated will be a much more expensive proposition and when such an amp is acquired the speakers will then become the bottle neck in the system.

ED

Quote from: mca on 21 Jun 2009, 04:58 pm

Interesting quote from that Stereophile review:

Quote
The transient peaks in live music can reach high sound pressure levels. For example, John Atkinson, sitting in a mid-hall seat in London's Royal Festival Hall, measured timpani thwacks at +106dB peak back in the early 1980s; reproducing those peaks without clipping and thus generating "slam factor" is what can make the difference between a system sounding "blah" or "wow," between "canned" or "real."

So if you're interested in reproducing musical realism at home, how much power do you really need? More than you might think, says Musical Fidelity's Antony Michaelson, who offers his reasoning in a white paper. Michaelson's bottom line is that with loudspeakers having normal sensitivity, you are going to need at least 500W to reproduce music's transient peaks in your listening room at a realistic level.

satfrat · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 09:00 pm »

Well Ed, I think age has a lot to do with it sometimes. In my case back in my 20/30's, I use to blast out cones in my speakers quite often, especially in my car. It was all rock,,, hard rock for me, nothing else and it had to be LOUD!!! My musical tastes started to vary mid way thru my 40's and now in my 50's, it's all about jazz and just about everything else, except old country. As I gradually drifted away from rock tho, the volumes naturally lowered. Today, even when I play some gold ole' hard rock at high volumes, I can't even fathom coming close to the volume levels of 30 years ago.

If Kingdeezie wants more power, I say more power to him.

Cheers,
Robin

Quote from: ecramer on 21 Jun 2009, 08:36 pm

But you must ask your self how many people listen " at a realistic level." I can say that i do not normally play my system at the same volume as a live concert nor want to. Why i do think in stereo, like cars, there there is no substitute for horsepower, some level of compromise must be addressed. In this i think to get to an amp that will provide the power for the desired listening level stated will be a much more expensive proposition and when such an amp is acquired the speakers will then become the bottle neck in the system.

ED

Quote from: mca on 21 Jun 2009, 04:58 pm
Interesting quote from that Stereophile review:

Quote
The transient peaks in live music can reach high sound pressure levels. For example, John Atkinson, sitting in a mid-hall seat in London's Royal Festival Hall, measured timpani thwacks at +106dB peak back in the early 1980s; reproducing those peaks without clipping and thus generating "slam factor" is what can make the difference between a system sounding "blah" or "wow," between "canned" or "real."

So if you're interested in reproducing musical realism at home, how much power do you really need? More than you might think, says Musical Fidelity's Antony Michaelson, who offers his reasoning in a white paper. Michaelson's bottom line is that with loudspeakers having normal sensitivity, you are going to need at least 500W to reproduce music's transient peaks in your listening room at a realistic level.