dbpoweramp pro and Teac drive for ripping

audioengr · « **on:** 21 May 2009, 10:40 pm »

This combination was recommended by Vincent I believe as well as used in this device:
http://www.ripnas.com/

You can get dbpoweramp here for $36 (includes all the goodies):
http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc-power-register.htm

and the Teac drive here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310134389867#ShippingPayment

Comparisons of the Teac to other drives:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=17274

After proper set-up to do accurate-rip and setting the C2 pointers, i ripped some Led Zep tracks that I had previously ripped using a good CDROM drive and EAC.

The result: The EAC .wav rips are not even close. I thought they were good, but I was wrong. The dbpoweramp .wav rips are highly focused, with improved depth and imaging.

Well worth the less than $100 investment. Best tweak I have done in years. The Teac rips at 10-12X too, so its fast and accurate.

I have customers doing this on a PC and then moving the .wav files to Mac. Its that much better than any other ripper I have tried.]

Kudos to Vincent and customer Bill for this tip.

Steve N.

serengetiplains · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 May 2009, 10:48 pm »

Thanks for the tip, Steve. Bit-perfect is evidently rarer than we appreciate.

JDUBS · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 May 2009, 03:09 am »

Honestly, I would never consider NOT using Accurate-Rip where possible (not all discs are in the database). How can you ever be sure your discs are being ripped perfectly, otherwise?

You can setup Accurate-Rip in EAC as well, but dbpoweramp is much better software, I agree.

-Jim

GreenLeo · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 May 2009, 05:18 am »

That means the binary files output from the EAC and dbpoweramp for the same track are different!?

Apart from listen to the files output to an audio device, is there other ways that we can use to ensure that the rip was indeed bit perfect?

richidoo · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 May 2009, 02:03 pm »

I like dbpoweramp too. I switch between burst mode and secure to improve ripping efficiency. I wish that were selected automatically after querying the Accurate Rip database, because switching modes causes CD to spin down.

If the CD is in Accurate-Rip I use Burst mode, one pass rip. If not in Accurate rip or if CRC doesn't match then I do 3 passes securemode. A lot of my classical CDs are not in Accurate Rip, but many are.

Thanks for the tip on the TEAC. I have been using LG. It says ripping at 30x, I like the speed, but sonics are more important. If it's bit for bit perfect confirmed by Accurate-Rip, how could a different CD ripping drive matter? Maybe the shape of the bits, or the color.

j/k

TGIF!

audioengr · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 May 2009, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: GreenLeo on 22 May 2009, 05:18 am

That means the binary files output from the EAC and dbpoweramp for the same track are different!?

Apart from listen to the files output to an audio device, is there other ways that we can use to ensure that the rip was indeed bit perfect?

Accurate-Rip supposedly does this.

Steve N.

richidoo · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 May 2009, 08:58 pm »

Accurate Rip is an online database of rips from other users to which dbpoweramp compares the CRC result of the ripped file. If it matches everyone elses, likely it is correct. Just one bit wrong would mismatch the CRC. What does CRC stand for anyway??

audioengr · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 May 2009, 11:15 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 22 May 2009, 08:58 pm

Accurate Rip is an online database of rips from other users to which dbpoweramp compares the CRC result of the ripped file. If it matches everyone elses, likely it is correct. Just one bit wrong would mismatch the CRC. What does CRC stand for anyway??

Cyclical Redundancy Check

Warning: just because the bits are matching with compare tools like EAC does not mean the two files will sound the same. Try it yourself.

Steve N.

GreenLeo · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 May 2009, 12:47 pm »

Steve,

Do you mean that the CRC of two files are the same, the actually bit contents of the two files may be different?

BPT · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 May 2009, 01:42 pm »

I also use and like dbpoweramp, but have not tried the Teac as yet. Is it possible that the same disc ripped using dbpoweramp ripper w/Acurrate-Rip (and passing of course) on 2 different CDRW drives sounds different? If this is the case, then the drives are encoding something into the files that we do not realize. I will attempt to test this.
Chris H.

audioengr · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 May 2009, 04:40 pm »

Quote from: GreenLeo on 23 May 2009, 12:47 pm

Steve,

Do you mean that the CRC of two files are the same, the actually bit contents of the two files may be different?

It's possible. Depends on what the CRC is generated from. May not include all of the bits.

Steve N.

Zeus the thunderer · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 May 2009, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: audioengr on 22 May 2009, 11:15 pm

Warning: just because the bits are matching with compare tools like EAC does not mean the two files will sound the same. Try it yourself.

Steve N.

Agreed.I have tried many things in ripping for past few months, i totaly believe in this claim.

Few more things from my experience :

1. Try using Millenium CD Mat while ripping.Best 50 EUR i spent so far.

2. Slower ripping speed is better.I did hear (small) difference in my system using Easy CD-DA extractor - for me,it's worth the extra time.
NOTE:Does dbpoweramp has the option of limiting the ripping speed (to 1x,2x or 4x, for example)?Please someone answer!

3. Why not use dedicated CD ROM drive instead of CD/DVD combo?
The more things a device does,the more compromises the designers have to make.
Similar to CD player vs. CD/DVD player.This is simply logical.

Here is the Teac CD ROM i bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/Teac-CD-224E-External-USB-Portable-24x-CD-ROM-Drive_W0QQitemZ320369638062QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42180QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Plus, this one has a cable for power supply also,separated from data cable.That can't be bad either.

4.External drive should be better,due to noise and vibration in PC.

I have not tested it sonically though.I wonder,if external drive is used, does the quality of USB cable matter then?
Will Locus Design cable give better results than cheap one?Can anybody please comment on this?
I have no way to test this than to buy $$$ USB cable, so it is out of the question so far

Also, i posted very similar thread like this one on Audiogon few weeks ago

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1239407900

audioengr · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 May 2009, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: Zeus the thunderer on 23 May 2009, 06:42 pm

Quote from: audioengr on 22 May 2009, 11:15 pm

Warning: just because the bits are matching with compare tools like EAC does not mean the two files will sound the same. Try it yourself.

Steve N.

Agreed.I have tried many things in ripping for past few months, i totaly believe in this claim.

Few more things from my experience :

1. Try using Millenium CD Mat while ripping.Best 50 EUR i spent so far.

2. Slower ripping speed is better.I did hear (small) difference in my system using Easy CD-DA extractor - for me,it's worth the extra time.
NOTE:Does dbpoweramp has the option of limiting the ripping speed (to 1x,2x or 4x, for example)?Please someone answer!

Yes, you can set slower speed in the options.

Quote

3. Why not use dedicated CD ROM drive instead of CD/DVD combo?
The more things a device does,the more compromises the designers have to make.
Similar to CD player vs. CD/DVD player.This is simply logical.

Usually the DVD combo drive is more accurate. DVDs are higher data density.

Quote

4.External drive should be better,due to noise and vibration in PC.
I have not tested it sonically though.I wonder,if external drive is used, does the quality of USB cable matter then?
Will Locus Design cable give better results than cheap one?Can anybody please comment on this?

Should not matter, since its not real-time.

Steve N.

Zeus the thunderer · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 May 2009, 10:18 am »

Steve,
Thanks for the answer.But what speed can you set in the options?Can you go as low as 1x or 2x?
For example, Easy CD-DA extractor has 1x, but when i select it, it still goes up to 4x.

Have you tried to rip using better USB cable vs. a cheap one? A/B test?
I would definitely try if i had the better cable.

richidoo · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 May 2009, 01:37 pm »

Drive speed can be set manually to 2x, 4, 8, 10, 16, 20, 24, 32, 40 or Maximum.

BPT · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 May 2009, 02:02 pm »

Here is my test and subjective results. I did a rip drive test and hear a difference. I ripped a track (FIM K2HD Sound--one of the highest quality CDs available, last track Pachelbel Canon in D, all percussion) on my PC using onboard Optiarc DVD/CDRW AD-7203A using DBPoweramp ripper in secure mode. I then ripped same track using outboard Yamaha CRW-F1UX CDRW powered from battery using dbPoweramp secure mode. Both were put in the same file--no upsampling. I am playing them back to back through my SB3 via WiFi. They of course sound very close but I hear a difference. In short, the Yamaha rip sounds like a 16/44 file up sampled to 24/44. It doesn't give you more highs or lows, but allows you to hear into the recording better. I sense I can easily hear the 16 bit noise floor. For those who have never listened to 24 bit vs. 16 bit or don't have a music system with a low enough noise level to hear it, I will try to elaborate. The difference is immediate as soon as the song starts--the recording venue sounds quieter with the Yamaha. The music sounds just a hair more full bodied--midrange is more tangible and natural, while the Optiarc ripped file sounds slightly more hi-fi. There is a little better depth and delineation of space within the depth. This is good and bad as it opens a new can of worms. I offer no speculative explaination for my findings--just know it has changed the way I will rip CDs from now on. I will certainly use the battery powered outboard Yamaha CDRW for my rips, I will not however go back and rerip my entire CD catalog (well, maybe a few favorites). Anyone care to do their version of my test and report the findings?
Chris H.

BPT · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 May 2009, 02:03 pm »

Sorry wrong button.
Chris H.

audioengr · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 May 2009, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: Zeus the thunderer on 24 May 2009, 10:18 am

Steve,
Thanks for the answer.But what speed can you set in the options?Can you go as low as 1x or 2x?
For example, Easy CD-DA extractor has 1x, but when i select it, it still goes up to 4x.

Have you tried to rip using better USB cable vs. a cheap one? A/B test?
I would definitely try if i had the better cable.

Have not tried the better USB cable. I'll do it today.

steve N.

audioengr · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 May 2009, 04:59 pm »

Quote from: BPT on 24 May 2009, 02:02 pm

Here is my test and subjective results. I did a rip drive test and hear a difference. I ripped a track (FIM K2HD Sound--one of the highest quality CDs available, last track Pachelbel Canon in D, all percussion) on my PC using onboard Optiarc DVD/CDRW AD-7203A using DBPoweramp ripper in secure mode. I then ripped same track using outboard Yamaha CRW-F1UX CDRW powered from battery using dbPoweramp secure mode. Both were put in the same file--no upsampling. I am playing them back to back through my SB3 via WiFi. They of course sound very close but I hear a difference. In short, the Yamaha rip sounds like a 16/44 file up sampled to 24/44. It doesn't give you more highs or lows, but allows you to hear into the recording better. I sense I can easily hear the 16 bit noise floor. For those who have never listened to 24 bit vs. 16 bit or don't have a music system with a low enough noise level to hear it, I will try to elaborate. The difference is immediate as soon as the song starts--the recording venue sounds quieter with the Yamaha. The music sounds just a hair more full bodied--midrange is more tangible and natural, while the Optiarc ripped file sounds slightly more hi-fi. There is a little better depth and delineation of space within the depth. This is good and bad as it opens a new can of worms. I offer no speculative explaination for my findings--just know it has changed the way I will rip CDs from now on. I will certainly use the battery powered outboard Yamaha CDRW for my rips, I will not however go back and rerip my entire CD catalog (well, maybe a few favorites). Anyone care to do their version of my test and report the findings?
Chris H.

thanks Chris. I also have this same outboard drive, so I'll give it a try and report back on any difference with the TEAC.

I have an experiement going with Tony Lauck on Audio Asylum. I am transferring files ripped with EAC and with dbpoweramp so he can do compares. I already see a difference. The dbpoweramp file is larger.

Steve N.

GreenLeo · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 May 2009, 03:21 am »

Quote from: audioengr on 24 May 2009, 04:59 pm

...

thanks Chris. I also have this same outboard drive, so I'll give it a try and report back on any difference with the TEAC.

I have an experiement going with Tony Lauck on Audio Asylum. I am transferring files ripped with EAC and with dbpoweramp so he can do compares. I already see a difference. The dbpoweramp file is larger.

Steve N.

That's strange. For a sound sample with the same duration, the number of bits should be the same in the WAV format because there is no compression at all.

Does it suggest that EAC is dropping some of the bits contained in the original track?