Song Tower RT vs. HT2-TL

Bear · « **on:** 21 May 2009, 01:26 am »

hello all,

Allow me to play devils advocate if you will......Song Tower RT vs. HT2-TL. Where is the 1500 price differential represented in the performance/sound comparison between these two exquisite examples of design and craftsmenship? Please make an attempt at objectivity

floresjc · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:02 am »

Everything I've read says that the HT2-TL is worth the extra money. I had a chance to listen to an HT2 (non TL) and a regular dome ST at Dennis' house. For me, as a first time salk purchaser, I wanted to go with a veracity series purchase, to get the higher end drivers and the fantastic ribbon. I felt overall, the HT2 has a bit more clarity and accuracy of timbre. I can only imagine how sweet the TL version of the HT2 is with its bass extension and ease of placement, I was very impressed with just the vanilla ST. To me, the great strength of the ST is the price performance ratio, adding 700 for me makes it out of that low priced range. So I felt the need that if I wanted ribbon, go all the way with HT2-TL. But I'm biased I guess, I'm going to buy the HT2-TL for the 2 channel area and use ST (dome) in a home theater because it is a very value oriented speaker that sounds fantastic.

DMurphy · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 May 2009, 02:21 am »

I think this is a perfect example of where you really need the results of blind testing. I've sat in on a number of comparisons where the person next to me instantly proclaimed the HT2 far superior to the ST when I really wasn't hearing all that much difference (except in the bass). Maybe I was biased in the opposite direction, because I knew how similar the two measured. There's no substitute for science and controlled, blinded experiments.

Bear · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 May 2009, 05:08 am »

Thanks for the response Mr. M. Very honest and objective. There is nothing like good low end to fill out a good piece.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 May 2009, 12:26 pm »

Although I havent heard the RT ST, I have heard the standard ST and HT2-TL, if my 3 month memory serves me correctly there isn't much difference from the overall sound between the ST and HT2. I think the HT2 drivers are a little more well integrated, but that could be personal. The bass on the HT2-TLs is way deeper though, but the ST will suffice. That said the HT2-TLs cabinets are much larger, made of 1" MDF instead of 0.75", and the drivers are more costly all adding up to the additional cost. If you are looking for a huge difference I think you are going to be disappointed, if you want the next level of performance then the HT2s would be the way to go.

I think a round of blind testing would be fun to do with the whole veracity series.

Jared

earthbound · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 May 2009, 12:50 pm »

I heard both side by side at AKFest and felt that the extra cash I paid to order the HT2-TL was well justified. I don't know the correct audiophile terms to use here but what I noticed with "my" speaker was more of everything I like: detail, impact, and bass. I'm sure I would have been very happy with the ST dome that I almost ordered, but after hearing them both my money's literally on the HT2-TL.

mchuckp · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm »

I also heard them side by side at AK Fest. One thing to note was that the room was HUGE. It would be interesting to hear the same comparison in a normal room. The bass extension was definitely very apparent in the HT2-TL. I also really liked the clarity in the veracity series.

I agree with earthbound that the ST is no slouch and would be a great choice. But I definitely feel the HT2-TL is a better speaker. Each individual has to judge if the cost difference is worth it to them. If I had a big room, to me it is worth the money. I'm moving in a few months and my gut tells me I will not have a big room. However I cannot ignore the veracity sound. Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL. It would give me the veracity sound with one driver vs two and not go as deep as the HT2-TL. Jim said he's hoping it will be roughly $3K.

If you can figure out a way to audition any of his speakers, that is the best choice. If not, you'll have to go from your gut based on influences from forums and your wallet.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 May 2009, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm

I also heard them side by side at AK Fest. One thing to note was that the room was HUGE. It would be interesting to hear the same comparison in a normal room. The bass extension was definitely very apparent in the HT2-TL. I also really liked the clarity in the veracity series.

I agree with earthbound that the ST is no slouch and would be a great choice. But I definitely feel the HT2-TL is a better speaker. Each individual has to judge if the cost difference is worth it to them. If I had a big room, to me it is worth the money. I'm moving in a few months and my gut tells me I will not have a big room. However I cannot ignore the veracity sound. Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL. It would give me the veracity sound with one driver vs two and not go as deep as the HT2-TL. Jim said he's hoping it will be roughly $3K.

If you can figure out a way to audition any of his speakers, that is the best choice. If not, you'll have to go from your gut based on influences from forums and your wallet.

I have my HT2-TLs in a 14x11.5 room or so, I am pleased but I know they would do better in a larger room. I take what I can get.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 May 2009, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: rahimlee54 on 21 May 2009, 04:55 pm

I have my HT2-TLs in a 14x11.5 room or so, I am pleased but I know they would do better in a larger room. I take what I can get.

Same, although my room is a few inches larger, here and there, but the room is very small, with a very resonant suspended hardwood floor. I've got a bunch of rigid fiberglass panels in the room, mostly 6" thickness, which helps, but I think that I will be installing more broadband acoustic panels.

Bear · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 May 2009, 12:48 am »

Rahimlee

What do you have running your ht's? Would a Sony STR-DA5300ES receiver do the trick? Any thoughts welcome.

No need to sugar coat. tell it like it is.

thanks.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 May 2009, 01:19 am »

Ya that should handle it, give Jim a call he will tell you just as plain as I will. Either way you go you will be happy, if you end up like me you will go for the HT2-TL because at STRT it is already way above the ST price so why not put in for the extra bass and drivers. The HT2s sound really good try to find something to listen to in any event, even if you need to drive a long way to do so.

I would ask alot of other people ahead of me I have just recieved my first pair of speakers yesterday, others opinions are probably alot better formed than mine. I do know each speaker is a good product that has its place, and each is worth the amount paid. Jim offers a good quality product and a good service.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 May 2009, 03:02 am »

Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm

...Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL....

anybody else catch this???
(not to derail this thread, or anything but I couldn't let this just slip by.)

must be the "best less than $3k speaker" that I have heard some talk about.

Interested to see how this HT1-TL develops...

robinje · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 May 2009, 05:10 am »

I'm sure those HT2-TL's are fantastic! That said, I have been supremely happy with my ST-RT's. I bought them before the HT2-TL's came out. I feel like if I ever do upgrade one day, it will be to te HT2-TL's, or simply skip all the way to the HT3's. But like many around here, I have a small room and integration of the HT3's would probably be more challenging. In the meantime, I love my ST-RT's and I have no upgrade money anyway, so I might as well sit back and enjoy the tunes... aa

mchuckp · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 May 2009, 12:38 pm »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 22 May 2009, 03:02 am

Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm
...Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL....

anybody else catch this???
(not to derail this thread, or anything but I couldn't let this just slip by.)
must be the "best less than $3k speaker" that I have heard some talk about.

Interested to see how this HT1-TL develops...

I hope I'm not spoiling Jim's thunder or anything as I have not seen him mention these specifically in the forums but he has been very open to me in emails. I asked Jim about the Veracity QW as I wanted a Veracity speaker but felt the HT2-TL was too big for me. He said he is replacing the QW with a transmission line version and was likely going to call it the HT1-TL. It would have a slightly larger footprint than the ST and use the same driver as the HT1 but he was going to go with the LCY ribbon instead of the G2. He's hoping to have a price of $2995 but it isn't set yet. He didn't know how low it would go but was guessing low 40's (give or take). Supposedly he was finishing up test cabinets and then was going to send them to Dennis.

For me, I love the sound of the HT2-TL over the ST but it is a BIG speaker. I think I will be satisfied with roughly 40hz low end. For what I'm looking for, it sounds like the HT1-TL is going to be perfect for me. I'm excited to hear more on the development from Jim and may be ready to order on the spot. He didn't specifically say when it would be ready, but made it sound like it wasn't too far off.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 May 2009, 12:58 pm »

Quote from: mchuckp on 22 May 2009, 12:38 pm

Quote from: funkmonkey on 22 May 2009, 03:02 am
Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm
...Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL....

anybody else catch this???
(not to derail this thread, or anything but I couldn't let this just slip by.)
must be the "best less than $3k speaker" that I have heard some talk about.

Interested to see how this HT1-TL develops...

I hope I'm not spoiling Jim's thunder or anything as I have not seen him mention these specifically in the forums but he has been very open to me in emails. I asked Jim about the Veracity QW as I wanted a Veracity speaker but felt the HT2-TL was too big for me. He said he is replacing the QW with a transmission line version and was likely going to call it the HT1-TL. It would have a slightly larger footprint than the ST and use the same driver as the HT1 but he was going to go with the LCY ribbon instead of the G2. He's hoping to have a price of $2995 but it isn't set yet. He didn't know how low it would go but was guessing low 40's (give or take). Supposedly he was finishing up test cabinets and then was going to send them to Dennis.

For me, I love the sound of the HT2-TL over the ST but it is a BIG speaker. I think I will be satisfied with roughly 40hz low end. For what I'm looking for, it sounds like the HT1-TL is going to be perfect for me. I'm excited to hear more on the development from Jim and may be ready to order on the spot. He didn't specifically say when it would be ready, but made it sound like it wasn't too far off.

That sounds pretty sweet. I probably would have bit on that had it been around, that said the HT2-TL is huge, but the bass is worth it for sure. Will this HT1-TL replace the STRT? This will be a MT desgin with just two drivers, same as the HT1?

DMurphy · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 May 2009, 01:41 pm »

I haven't received anything from Jim yet, but I'm sure he's not planning on replacing the STRT with it. The low end may be comparable or better, but it won't be as sensitive--one Seas W18 won't play as loud as two CA15's for a given input. I think the idea is to maximize the bass response of the W18 in a reasonable size cabinet.

EthanH · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 May 2009, 02:09 pm »

Maybe I missed this, but I thought the HT1-TL is called the Veracity QW?

I'm guessing the HT1-TL will essentially be a QW with some revisions and the QW will subsequently be retired?

mchuckp · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 May 2009, 02:47 pm »

Quote from: EthanH on 22 May 2009, 02:09 pm

Maybe I missed this, but I thought the HT1-TL is called the Veracity QW? I'm guessing the HT1-TL will essentially be a QW with some revisions and the QW will subsequently be retired?

Jim commented to me in an email that the QW is a pain to make. And from his comments to me, it sounds like what you mention is correct. The QW goes bye-bye and the HT1-TL is born.

Nuance · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 May 2009, 04:15 pm »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 22 May 2009, 03:02 am

Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm
...Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL....

anybody else catch this???
(not to derail this thread, or anything but I couldn't let this just slip by.)
must be the "best less than $3k speaker" that I have heard some talk about.

Interested to see how this HT1-TL develops...

Guess the cat is out of the bag. At least I didn't make the slip up.

It's not a blind test, but I'll be taking my SongTower RT's over to TJHUB's house to compare them to his HT2 TL's. Obviously his HT2's will take the cake in the bass department, but I don't think the difference in midrange resolution and HF's will be very drastic. I guess we'll find out once we get together.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 May 2009, 04:36 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 22 May 2009, 04:15 pm

Quote from: funkmonkey on 22 May 2009, 03:02 am
Quote from: mchuckp on 21 May 2009, 04:47 pm
...Right now I'm leaning towards Jim's upcoming HT1-TL....

anybody else catch this???
(not to derail this thread, or anything but I couldn't let this just slip by.)
must be the "best less than $3k speaker" that I have heard some talk about.

Interested to see how this HT1-TL develops...
Guess the cat is out of the bag. At least I didn't make the slip up.

It's not a blind test, but I'll be taking my SongTower RT's over to TJHUB's house to compare them to his HT2 TL's. Obviously his HT2's will take the cake in the bass department, but I don't think the difference in midrange resolution and HF's will be very drastic. I guess we'll find out once we get together.

Any idea when that is happening, I'd like some impressions from a live A/B.