[ixlr8]

Now you folks have done it!! aa
Several months ago I pulled out my wife's old Kenwood TT after getting inspiration here to check out records again for the first time in 30+ years. OOP's seems her kids broke the needle off the stylus, that is not going to work. So I spent some time searching for my old Garrard TT that I bought 40 years ago, I finally found it, cleaned it up and even with a needle that is a little twisted and no longer perpendicular to the record... I now know what you folks are talking about...the music just sounds RIGHT! Even with her old dirty records and based on listening to a piano movement, my slow turning TT, I loved the sound and I want a good TT. I was about to order a SL1200 w/tone arm rewire and fluid damping, so I guess I have a $600-$800 budget. But, SWMBO insists on a TT with at least auto shutoff, preferably auto return. I have started looking for a JVC QL-Y66F, they seem hard to come by, unless I am looking in the wrong places. (eBay audiogon) Any other suggestions on what to look for in this caliber of TT, with the options SWMBO demands, in my price range? I know you folks will have no problem spending my money. 

       Thank you,

[Wayner]

Thorens of Germany makes several models in several price ranges that are fully automatic and of high quality. While Thorens isn't into direct drives, their belt performance machines are impressive.

Take a look at this one I picked out, because of similair pricing to the Technics SL-1200.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Thorens-Turntable-TD-240-Black-Piano-Lacquer_2?sc=2&category=355

Wayner 

[lumendog]

For a vintage Thorens, try the TD 147. It is the auto shutoff version of the Thorens TD 160 Super. The shut off mechanism is velocity driven, therefore independent of record size. I have used one of these for a few years, and although it is currently boxed (trying to pare down my tables from the current 5 due to the wifey, must sell 3) It sounded great with my grado gold , and very wonderful with an ortofon super om 30. The td 145 is also nice but not as good or pretty as the TD 147. PM me for any Thorens questions. for a completely different vibe, you could go with a dual cs 5000. My friend had one and it sounded great.  i really like auto shutoff.

[orthobiz]

Check this link:

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_forsale_147r.shtml

I love just looking at this site from time to time; this TT is not on the main page, I wonder if it's an expired link or if he's about to list it.

Wayner is an AR kinda guy, maybe he can weigh in on David's work.

Paul

PS: I just reread the description. And the auto shutoff is disabled! But surely your wife, having seen some of the pics on this site, will come under the manual TT spell.....I had to look up "SWMBO" Advice after 21 years of marriage: don't call her that (especially not on Mother's Day!) 

[ixlr8]

Check this link:
http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_forsale_147r.shtml
I love just looking at this site from time to time; this TT is not on the main page, I wonder if it's an expired link or if he's about to list it.
Wayner is an AR kinda guy, maybe he can weigh in on David's work.

Paul

PS: I just reread the description. And the auto shutoff is disabled! But surely your wife, having seen some of the pics on this site, will come under the manual TT spell.....I had to look up "SWMBO" Advice after 21 years of marriage: don't call her that (especially not on Mother's Day!) 

Interesting stuff on that site. How did you find that TT? I looked at all the links I could find and the only way I could find that TT was through your link.
My wife is a musician, she plays the violin, surprisingly she happens to prefer function over form.. so looks don't matter much to her as long as it sounds great.
I was a little bummed when I saw that he had mod'ed it and removed the auto off function.
The search continues, which is half the fun. 

[lumendog]

That Table is a modified TD 147 with a rega arm. The original has a Thorens arm that has auto shut off as aforementioned. That table was sold long ago. When I was looking for my Td 147, I too came across that link. I finally found one local in Original box. Too bad I have to let it go. The Vinyl Nirvana table would probably be $700 or more, While Unmodified ones go for half that while sounding very nice. You can add a project speed box for external power supply and speed control and it makes things even sweeter. It certainly blew my project 2.1 out the water.
There are other brands out there like the Duals, etc. But make sure you get one that has not been abused and has original box or a careful shipper, as we all know how scary shipping can be. 

[TheChairGuy]

But, SWMBO insists on a TT with at least auto shutoff, preferably auto return. I have started looking for a JVC QL-Y66F, they seem hard to come by, unless I am looking in the wrong places. (eBay audiogon) Any other suggestions on what to look for in this caliber of TT, with the options SWMBO demands, in my price range? I know you folks will have no problem spending my money. 

Thank you,

They are hard to come by.  They were made in 1985, JVC's last (and likely, best effort ever) and they play quite well.  By even 1985, everybody was mad for the compact disc and turntables were in decline...they were not made in nearly the numbers they were even just a few years earlier in the 80's.

They play great if you can find them...pound 8 lbs of modeling clay in the innards.  The full auto function(s) are superb on it...it takes a good bit of the bother out of playing.

A couple members here and I have it and we feel it's as good as any up to about $2500.00 on purely sonic merits (generally costing 1/6 of that)

John

[doug s.]

forget auto return or auto shut-off.  all you need is tone-arm auto-lift.  you can get wintage thorens q-up, or audio-technica, or expressimo "the lifter"; you can find them used for ~$75-$150.  this guy sells the expressimo on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130302330693


here's the audio technica wersion f/a:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370194754067


then find the deck of your choice; my recommendation is either an unsprung (208/298/398) empire, or a sprung 498/598/698 empire.  these decks, w/original empire arms, have an auto-lift mechanism built into the arm, but i'd recommend replacing the arm; it keeps the deck only "extremely good" instead of "outstanding", imo... 

doug s.

[ixlr8]

When I was looking for my Td 147, I too came across that link. I finally found one local in Original box. Too bad I have to let it go. ... There are other brands out there like the Duals, etc. But make sure you get one that has not been abused and has original box or a careful shipper, as we all know how scary shipping can be. 

I found a TD 145 within driving distance of me, how might it compare with a TD 147? Is there some place I can check out what the different Thorens offer for performance?

[lumendog]

Depending on the model of td 145 there are many or fewer differences. the 147 comes in a rosewood plinth with a low mass arm that has detachable armtubes. The 145 either may have the older style with detachable headshell, in which case it is a medium/high mass arm, or the arm tube similar to the 147. The 147 has dampening added to the subchassis and chassis top plate, the 145 does not. The 145 used an opto electronic or on the earlier models, a magnetic sensor for shut off. IN these cases the placement is set and the arm always pops up at this place no matter length of album, on the 147 it is velocity driven and the arm pops up wherever the leadout groove is. The 147 has metal hinges vs. plastic 145. The 147 had a solid mdf base, th 145 has a particle insert. The 147 has a larger bearing and heavier platter. 147 has a 16v motor, 145 has 110volt. 16v is what project uses and why the 147 can use a speedbox. Blah Blah
Sonically the 145 is no slouch but not as good as the 147. I had a 145 with the heavier arm and used a denon dl160 and it sounded great but not as good as the 147. That said, you can always add dampening to the 145, and add a heavier base and a good cart and be off. Local purchases are always better then non local for the touchy feely parameter. I sold my 145 with a solid base and dampening added for $150 locally with an old grado on it last year. This should give you an idea of what it is worth. Ebay has 145's all the time.

Also a Thorens 126 would likely beat both above decks. These are in the 350 and up region and are hard to find in great shape with an electrical problem. I would stay away from the td 125 as they are getting long in the tooth.

[ixlr8]

Hi,
  The other 145 I was looking at was not what it was represented to be. I found this on the Vinylnirvana site, any comments+/- ?

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_forsale_145st9.shtml

[orthobiz]

Hi,
  The other 145 I was looking at was not what it was represented to be. I found this on the Vinylnirvana site, any comments+/- ?

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_forsale_145st9.shtml

It's sold. Did you buy it?

Paul

[TomSV650]

They are hard to come by.  They were made in 1985, JVC's last (and likely, best effort ever) and they play quite well.  By even 1985, everybody was mad for the compact disc and turntables were in decline...they were not made in nearly the numbers they were even just a few years earlier in the 80's.

They play great if you can find them...pound 8 lbs of modeling clay in the innards.  The full auto function(s) are superb on it...it takes a good bit of the bother out of playing.

A couple members here and I have it and we feel it's as good as any up to about $2500.00 on purely sonic merits (generally costing 1/6 of that)

John
[/quote]

Now that's funny. I've heard a couple of JVC QL-Y66Fs and they sound nothing like a $2500 rig, more like a Rega P1 or a MMF 2.1, which is well under $500.

[TheChairGuy]

Now that's funny. I've heard a couple of JVC QL-Y66Fs and they sound nothing like a $2500 rig, more like a Rega P1 or a MMF 2.1, which is well under $500.

Note the part above where I say "They play great if you can find them...pound 8 lbs of modeling clay in the innards.  The full auto function(s) are superb on it...it takes a good bit of the bother out of playing"

I documented a long'ish topic on the JVC QL-Y66F (not long ago) and complete tweeking of this unit for best sound.  It's major failing was that it has a hollow, feedback prone plinth - the worst case I've ever experienced.  Stuff it with 8 lbs of modeling clay and put it on feedback resistant feet and supports and you have a fine player - blowing into the weeds a Rega P1 or similar Pro-ject.

Unmodded, I wouldn't pay $100 for it - so you're right.  But, no machine has improved more spectacularly than the JVC QL-Y66F.  It abundantly proves that a record player is most affected by mechanical processes. The 10" arm on that deck is super, too, but improves with some judicious use of constrained layer damping.

I'm so glad I provided fodder for your belly-laugh...but there is far more to that deck than your friends milked from it. Add in the fully auto functions, and much of the beauty with little of the pain of vinyl-playback can be enjoyed 

EDIT: go here for much more information: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=63108.0

John

[ixlr8]

Hi,
  The other 145 I was looking at was not what it was represented to be. I found this on the Vinylnirvana site, any comments+/- ?

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_forsale_145st9.shtml

It's sold. Did you buy it?

Paul

No, I am still figuring out what tables are what.. I didn't want to rush into something that was not really what I wanted. The guy at VN said somebody else was asking about it, I told him to go ahead and sell I was still in the research mode. I also saw a linear Technics that I was tempted by.

[Wayner]

I might stay away from the linear type tonearms. Most were not that successful and required a lot of servo crap to keep the arm straight. Some cheaper linear tracks also would only except a "P" style cartridge, limiting your choices.

I had a linear track Marantz that was a POS. An HK with a Rabco arm might, "might" be tempting, but they are aged and servo components (capacitors, trimmers) have probably changed values. Just my opinion, tho.

Wayner

[bacobits1]

This is nice. Super condition too.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1246724941&/Thorens-160TB-with-sme-serie-i

Just look for an end of record lifter.
BTW, not my ad but I wouldn't mind having it.

D

[ixlr8]

This is nice. Super condition too.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1246724941&/Thorens-160TB-with-sme-serie-i

Just look for an end of record lifter.
BTW, not my ad but I wouldn't mind having it.

D

I saw that, but I had no idea what it's quality was, where it fit in the scheme of things. I have been looking some, not very hard to be honest, for an 'arm lifter'. The one posted here before on Ebay has had the listing ended, the other was in England and I am not sure how comfortable I am dealing with overseas sales.

[bacobits1]

I understand about the Overseas dealings. I also have never had a problem.
England, France, Japan, China, Australia.
I purchased the AT Safety Riser new Doug mentioned above from Hi Fi Do in Japan a few years ago. 50$ and sold it for $100. I would also rather have an ad on device than all the mechanics that go along with the Semi Auto tables. Usually will exemplify a better tonearm and changeable later on too.
That is a nice table, looks like it's from Canada?

D

[ixlr8]

I understand about the Overseas dealings. I also have never had a problem.

I purchased the AT Safety Riser new Doug mentioned above from Hi Fi Do in Japan a few years ago. 50$ and sold it for $100. I would also rather have an ad on device than all the mechanics that go along with the Semi Auto tables. Usually will exemplify a better tonearm and changeable later on too.
That is a nice table, looks like it's from Canada?

D

How good is that Shure M97X cartridge? Is it MM or MC? I am a newbie getting back into vinyl and I am clueless. How would this used 160B compare with the new TD240 Wayner mentioned? Price wise they are in the same neighborhood. Normally I would lean to new, but I suspect the older ones were built better.