[Browntrout]

Hello, can I ask why you listen to music? Do you think this reason has some influence upon your approach to stereo?  If so in what way? Cheers, Ben.

[launche]

Well since no one else has bothered.

I listen to music to drown out the pain and suffering.  The only other viable options are drugs, alcohol or women, all of which could kill me.  I chose the lesser vice or so I thought.  Stereo adds to my suffering and was an unexpected mechanism that has been just as addictive as drugs, alcohol or women.  It was in listening to John Coltrane's "Sunship" that I was born again in my appreciation of music in the absence of particular playback devices and realized that if the music in its basic form can not touch you, no manner of magnifying glass or truth devices will ever do. 

The music either has "it" or it doesn't, all else is an attempt to get closer or extract something that inherently may not exist or is largely irrelevant.  If I may quote my father: "You either love the women or you don't son."  If the music has it, then you get it.  You may want to get more of "it" but in the end its true essence was largely yours from the start.  One has likely made a simple thing a more complex process, some call it refinement others call it a waste of time.  You know when you tell someone you love them and something in that person "insecurity?" compels them to ask you how much do you love me? Then the honest natural moment and sincerity is gone and your brain starts coming up with all manner of BS to attempt to get the person to a better or closer understanding, it's meaningless and pointless.  That is what the search beyond the musical essence may be like. You know that pop-culture line "You had me at hello." 

To me there are two basic parts to music: what I call the musical essence of the material and the other is the performance aspect of the material.  In the best case (and most I would imagine) these two things merge well and great effort is not needed to achieve a wonderful connection and degree of enjoyment.  You know when you say something to someone as you mean it and they act as if there's more to it, what do you really mean.  Now either the person truly doesn't understand you (rarely the case) or they are looking for some hidden subtext to suit there own purposes.  Music can be like that: Muddy Waters said what he meant, it is likely trivial whether you need to know what microphone he said it into, whether he had a cigarette in his mouth and had one eye on Little Walter.  All that is just the dust in the air and likely adds little to the essence.  The essence which is the same if Muddy was on his porch alone singing into the wind. These things to me are performance aspects and after a point (usually early on) add nothing to the musical essence.  The musical essence is what deserves the uncovering process not the performance aspect.  Try and wrap your mind around what's going on in "Sunship" versus the recording technique.  Imagine when your lover comes from the bathroom ready and willing for you.  Now what is natural and captures the essence is you being stimulated and saying "Baby you look damn good in the negligee, you belong to me tonight."  Not, "Honey now what did you do in there to get so pretty looking, you didn't smell like that before, where did the lipstick come from, you have heels in the bathroom, you are one crafty lady with your bag of tricks..."

One can listen to and enjoy music for the performance aspect I would imagine that's what all the equipment is for.  But most any performance aspect is only to serve the purpose of conveying the musical essence and by and large I think the creators would like them to not be noticed.  Does the violinist want you to notice all she is doing to get this sound or does she want you to notice the sound.  As a baseline all things leading up to the performance should only serve to remove distraction from communicating the musical essence. And there my friends is were we make an excuse for our indulgence.  It is a very thin line for many but one with serious consequences.

Kidding about the pain and suffering BTW.

[low.pfile]

Hello, can I ask why you listen to music? Do you think this reason has some influence upon your approach to stereo?  If so in what way? Cheers, Ben.

Many reasons: to experience art/enjoy musical talent/create a soundtrack to life/think/relax....

Do the reasons influence my system choices? Yes. How? They identify the purpose and the extent to which the system should be optimized in a reasonable manner(size, complexity, cost)

-ed

[Thebiker]

launche probably expressed it more eloquently than I can manage....

I listen to music because it fills and soothes the empty places in my soul.  It eases sorrow and amplifies happiness.  I cannot imagine my world without music.

I use my gear to get me closer to the music, but if all I had was a boom box, I would still be listening to music.  I go to sleep with music playing that helps me relax, I spend part of each day with music and a book.....and it usually ends up being just the music. 

The only time I don't have music playing is out on my bike....that's a different type of soul soothing.
 

Walt

[Browntrout]

Thanks for the replies chaps, especially to Launche for taking the time to write so nicely about something which is very difficult to put into words.
  I actually wrote the question then tried to answer it for myself and couldn't so I went for a walk this afternoon along the coastal path high above the sea in a fine quietning fog. Here goes...
  Music can stop me thinking with my conscious mind. Words have meanings so limit comunication, notes don't so expresion isn't limited, the most beautifull writing only makes half sense because the meaning is not in the meaning of the words but around them and beyond them. Poems and the word that means so much.
  I appear to have developed a very strange way of looking at life or this world in that something is either the truth or not and even material things appear to me as honest or not, especially man made things, some were created for the right reason and others the wrong reason it all comes down to motive for me for everything and when you look you see.
  Why does someone sing? Many reasons but for me there is only one true reason and that is because they want to sing to you, has someone sang to you? The imperfection of their voice makes them singing all the more beautifull, the motive or wanting to or having to is more than the song or voice. When someone sings to you you don't even hear the words.
  I listen to music to take my mind and heart and soul out of this world and back where they came from for a while, if the desire is there then it happens more and more.
  As to how this relates to my stereo well I guess at least in pursueing this hobby we are looking for the truth as an absolute (fidelity) and thats why I don't listen to my stereo anymore or the music if I can help it. The technical side of music is about as important as the technical side of people.
 

[ecramer]

Yea, Ive been beating this around in my head all day, ever since i read it this morning, on how to answer this and i really don't have the elegance of words to express it It fills a hole keeps me sane, Some time's it just lets me know that some else feels the way i do. I am a Lyric driven listener words to accompaniment. The best guitar player in the world might be interesting to hear but with out words   To me the human voice is the best instrument in the world

Thea Gilmore
Rags And Bones lyrics

Through the iron winter to the fires of June
Through the five o'clock skyline to the deeadlocked moon
There's a flickering figure dancing alone
Making her junk creatures out of rags and bones

Where the vapour is rising between the seedling and the vine
And though the shadow's in waiting are wasting their time
Cos my veins are tracking street maps and the compass and the stones
And I'm still making my junk creatures out of rags and bones

Oh yeah, the hammer and the nail
Oh yeah, the heart's in the small change
Oh yeah, and the Devil's in the detail
Ans in my rags and bones

Now it's the fist through the window, it's the wine that you brought
It's a far cry from the shackles of cognitive thought
It's the lines on the fridge door, just see how they've grown
Up from little junk creatures made from rags and bones

Oh yeah, the hammer and the nail
Oh yeah, the heart's in the small change
Oh yeah, and the Devil's in the detail
And in the rags and bones

And now the candle's flickered out, the walls have been built
And they are racking up the weapons of blood and piss and guilt
Voices have been silenced, but they belong to anyone
And these little junk creatures made from rags and bones
And these little junk creatures made from rags and bones
Rags and bones

ED

[Bob in St. Louis]

Beautiful thread Browntrout. Thank you for starting it. 

I really have very little to add. Launche killed it for me. His words should travel far beyond this thread. I find it a shame the world can't hear what he said. I'm humbled by your words Launche. Well said Sir.

For me, sure, I love the "toys". The technical aspect of the hobby I find fascinating, fun, and entertaining. It amuses me.
But in the end what it all boils down to is what does the music does to you. Once the sawdust clears, once the smell of solder has dissipated, once you sit down to listen to your toys, how does it really affect you? That's the big question. If there isn't a song in your collection that makes you close your eyes and make your head distort like Joe Cockers does, then you're not in it for the music.

Bob

[geezer]

About 17 years ago we had our 18 month old granddaughter with us at a church function. She had barely learned how to walk at that point and was having fun "running" from me as I pretended to chase her.  Suddenly, when the band started playing, she instantly stopped, faced the band, and began to dance, swaying side-to-side in sync with the music.

She had never heard a live band before, and had never before exhibited that kind of behavior. Her impromptu response just came out of the blue.

I suspect that this behavior was evidence that we are all hard wired at birth to have strong responses to rhythm and music. I can attest that I do.

[Bob in St. Louis]

My five year old daughter has a VERY strong attachment/draw to music.
At the first sign of a rhythmic beat, her little butt starts wiggling. 
So I know exactly what you mean. We should all be as fortunate.

Bob

[richidoo]

Ecstacy.

Music listening in hifi is addictive, but it is a healthy habit. Since I got my hifi, and especially since listening to the classical masters of harmony, my life situation and physical health have improved dramatically. Hearing the rich harmonies at very high resolution is ecstacy.

Music is beautiful. Beauty in all forms is spiritually enriching. Music is the most tactile of arts because it enters the mind directly, stimulating physiological response and bypassing the ego's choice to ignore. Great music can't be ignored, especially at high resolution, low distortion as in high end audio, or live music. It does its healing and enriching the soul whether you want it to or not. This makes music the most powerful artform, imo.

Hifi allows more details and more beauty to be perceived, so it intensifies the healing and inspirational power of the music.  

A button that reliably creates ecstacy to whatever degree the listener is able to experience - what is that worth? That is why audio can be so expensive. We are trained rats - pay the fee, press the button, get the reward, repeat. How much do illicit drugs which stimulate ecstacy cost? Not just the street price, but what are people willing to give up to get that feeling again and again? Far more than the highest price stereo, and drugs are less reliable or efficient in delivering ecstacy. Ecstacy is valuable and is the primary emotional driver in human life. In all activities we seek ecstacy, but usually only find it in drips and drabs. It is why we seek hobbies, relationships, comfort food, art, love. A music system delivers it more efficiently (intensity/total cost) than most other methods besides sex, and more reliably than any other method.

[whubbard]

For me, sure, I love the "toys". The technical aspect of the hobby I find fascinating, fun, and entertaining. It amuses me.
But in the end what it all boils down to is what does the music does to you. Once the sawdust clears, once the smell of solder has dissipated, once you sit down to listen to your toys, how does it really affect you? That's the big question. If there isn't a song in your collection that makes you close your eyes and make your head distort like Joe Cockers does, then you're not in it for the music.

That is exactly my opinion on the topic. The only thing I would add is that I personally find music can do as I choose it to. It can soothe me, it can motivative me, etc... Powerfully stuff 

-West

[Niteshade]

Very good question, Ben! 

Music contains memories of good times and bad ones. It's a way to escape reality and concentrate on something positive. The most fun I ever had with music was during Basketball practice in high school.  Friends & Music....can't get any better!

[launche]

Niteshade to touch on a very interesting point regarding your most fun times with music, I concur.  I think many of us will share that sentiment.

I would like to ask a question as it pertains to your enjoyment and a first thought response would be appreciated.


Do you enjoy music now more that you are headed in the direction of High Fidelity?


{Ben, If I am hijacking your thread let me know, I have been known to do that.  I think I am on the same concept and progressing the thread but I may be wrong.  But I am looking to learn somethings and broaden my thought process.}

[Bob in St. Louis]

Do you enjoy music now more that you are headed in the direction of High Fidelity?

Most definitely.

I started this hobby five or six years ago with very little interest in two channel audio. My goal was to design and construct a home theater room. That was 100% of my goal. Music never entered the equation in the very least. Once it was up and running I crudely rigged up some wires to play tunes from the PC to the main front channel speakers. Just for the heck of it.

Wow, that sounds pretty cool. 

Five years later I've got modded SqueezeBoxes, tube amps and a nice little turntable.

I blame all of you for that. 

So yea, I enjoy music much more since I've heard it reproduced through a higher quality playback system.

Bob

[TRADERXFAN]

I tend to drift towards the philosophical side of life. My personal interest tends to analyze our existence in how our habits and beliefs shape our choices, and hence collectively shape society and cultures. Consequently, the most important music for me, is music that allows a person to transcend the individual and get in touch, if only briefly, with the truth of the universal human condition. (Which is also true of all art).  This is the essence of the beauty for me. It is timeless and universal.  The themes of the human drama repeat in all of history, and music is just different expressions of that emotional truth.  

[Niteshade]

"Do you enjoy music now more that you are headed in the direction of High Fidelity?"


Good question and I cannot answer it wholly in this thread due to the nature of the answer. I was planning on writing something akin to this in the Industry Talk section soon.

The severely watered down version:  HiFi listening is more academic to me in nature. It's like wine tasting for the sake of reviews. Does this hold true with anybody else?

I get as much pleasure from a boombox as from an expensive system when emotion is involved.  HiFi does add enjoyment on a day off.

[Browntrout]

Feel free Launche it's a very open ended question and the more people are willing to write the better.
  Traderxfan I like what you say, especially about history.

[launche]

I tend to drift towards the philosophical side of life. My personal interest tends to analyze our existence in how our habits and beliefs shape our choices, and hence collectively shape society and cultures. Consequently, the most important music for me, is music that allows a person to transcend the individual and get in touch, if only briefly, with the truth of the universal human condition. (Which is also true of all art).  This is the essence of the beauty for me. It is timeless and universal.  The themes of the human drama repeat in all of history, and music is just different expressions of that emotional truth.  

Well said and I agree.
If I may ask is there a genre of music that aids most in this thought process,  care to share a record or so with us.  

Also, in my time on the few forums I visit, we rarely ever talk about the music.  It's supposed to be the universal language but we rarely ever talk about it.  Take this site for example, 98% of the content is about everything else but actual music. I am far behind on my music discoveries and when it has been talked about I've found the discussions, mentions very helpful.

[CSI]

I can trace my interest in electronics as well as classical music back to a single incident. Growing up in the fifties we had very little music in our home. My mom was a reader and my dad played golf. In my first year of Middle School (nee Jr. High) I got to know the class geek. His name was Gary and he had very few friends. I was intrigued when he told me he was building a "Heathkit" so as to better enjoy his collection of Glenn Gould playing Bach. I'd never heard of either of them and visited him the day he got everything hooked up and running. The music was amazing and so was the sound. Then Gary discovered a hum coming from his new preamp and quickly took it out of the system to check it. It was on the bench, unplugged, but Gary forgot that the large caps retained a lot of juice. He accidentally touched the bottom of a cap with a screwdriver and the jolt nearly knocked him across the room. He wasn't hurt but I went away mightily impressed by the power of music, good sound, and of the great fun you could have messing about with the gear!

[jimdgoulding]

Leroi Jones once said of Coltrane that he is like a lion with massive wings that can envelope you and carry you to someplace you may have never been.  Music is communication on another level.  It is confirming of beauty and genius in the world.  Sorrow, too.  It allows us to explore within ourselves, to escape, to trip, to co-mingle, and perhaps to understand.  It’s architecture for thought and emotion.  I think that audio is for us, well, me, a means to get the most direct communion with an artist and what is being played.  It delivers us from the mundane.  From a value system that disposes.  It inspires, and it relaxes.

And what Richidoo says.