Benchmark Amplifiers for VMPS Speakers?

Housteau · « **on:** 18 Dec 2003, 02:28 am »

I was curious to know what electronics are used, specifically amplifiers and pre-amps, during the design and listening tests on the VMPS speakers? I was also wondering if there is a special synergistic relationship between those specific amps and the different speaker models? No doubt that a wide variety of different electronics could work well with them, but is there one specific brand, tube or solid state that excels passed the rest consistently? Is there anyone that uses, or has used Bryston's new SST series for both the top and bottom end on bi-amped systems, or for running full range? I am a fan of solid state, but my Infinity ribbons prefer tubes. Is it the same for the VMPS?

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 08:07 am »

The last time I heard, Brian was still using the Ampzilla 2000s. Extremely high current and very neutral sounding. For the larger VMPS speakers, I personally have not heard anything that was better (however, an easier to drive speaker like the 626R can be successfully mated with just about any good amp). Most amps, even those rated at 200W+, just don't have the gusto to push the RM40s and would implode on something like the RM/X (which requires that I use bi-amped Ampzillas to get the best sound).

There are lots of folks that like to use tubes for the top end on the RM40s but it definitely is not a requirement. The Ampzillas are neutral and full enough that even tube lovers can agree that it sounds pretty good. I even hooked it up at a LoneStar Bottlehead meeting and no-one ran screaming from the room

.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

Housteau · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:35 pm »

Thanks Julian. Because of the close working relationship, I was thinking it would be the Ampzillas, but not for the reason you mentioned. I didn't realize that the larger models are such a difficult load to drive properly, requiring large amounts of current for the bass. But as such, I would think there are a lot of high current designs out there that would be up to that task. They may not do as well on the top end though. The message I get from your post is that you believe the Ampzilla to be the best overall solid state design (top to bottom) for those VMPS speakers requiring very high current.

However, if you were to spilt the duty between separate amplifiers for the top and bottom, what other manufacturers in your experience (or anyone else out there) have you found to to that job well. The other side to that question is which ones, tubes or SS, have been found to work best on the top?

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:44 pm »

I just got my 40's yesterday and I plan on running my Kora Cosmos Reference Mono Blocs (100 watt Class A triode) full range. I talked to Brian and he didn't think I would have any problems doing this and had in fact used Kora in the past and thought they sounded very good.

Their is also another AudioCircle member (Kevin in Florida - can't remember his username right now) who uses the standard version of the Cosmos full range on his 40's.

I'll let you know how things go when I unpack the speakers and get things hooked-up.

GW

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 04:40 pm »

IME, the 40's like a lot of watts and a lot of current. I've heard them driven well by the Spectron Musician II, the Van Alstine 550ex, and the Parasound JC-1's.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 04:45 pm »

I'll be trying an ICEpower amp (Rowland 302/4) with the RM/x. It has a a two channel input and four channel output for passive biamping from a single chassis.

Each output channel is 250w/500w into 8/4 ohms, assuming it's plugged into a 20A dedicated outlet

Sa-dono · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 02:34 am »

Quote from: ekovalsky

I'll be trying an ICEpower amp (Rowland 302/4) with the RM/x. It has a a two channel input and four channel output for passive biamping from a single chassis.

Each output channel is 250w/500w into 8/4 ohms, assuming it's plugged into a 20A dedicated outlet

Have you heard the new Rowlands yet? If so, any thoughts/impressions? I'm thinking of getting some 201s, the 301's baby brother.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 03:36 am »

Heard the 302 recently. Took about 30 seconds to realize it was by far the best amp I've ever heard. It totally smoked some well regarded Theta monoblocks on the penultimate Wilson speakers. In addition to better midrange and treble transparency, the big Wilsons sounded like they had an extra octave of bass extension with the JRDG. Probably the best looking amp I've seen too.

The 201's are a relative bargain, they lack the big chassis and the huge toroidal transformer between the AC mains and the switching power supply. Since I want to biamp I would have needed four monoblocks, and I really didn't want four separate chassis, small as they are. Also didn't want to have to buy four expensive power cords. And I was able to negotiate a nice discount on the 302/4, could have gotten even more off a plain 302 because of lower dealer pricing on the two channel version. Don't expect much if any discount on the 201, supply on those is low and demand is high and they are selling well at MSRP.

In a few weeks I hope to do a full review with the 302/4 driven directly from a dCs Elgar Plus. The amp will be here in about 7-10 days. I'm not holding my breath on the speakers...

zybar · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 03:42 am »

Eric,

What is the price on the Rowland amps?

GW

ekovalsky · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 03:47 am »

check your PM, I'm too embarrased to say here

Sa-dono · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 06:35 am »

Quote from: ekovalsky

Heard the 302 recently. Took about 30 seconds to realize it was by far the best amp I've ever heard. It totally smoked some well regarded Theta monoblocks on the penultimate Wilson speakers. In addition to better midrange and treble transparency, the big Wilsons sounded like they had an extra octave of bass extension with the JRDG. Probably the best looking amp I've seen too.

Don't expect much if any discount on the 201, supply on those is low and demand is high and they are selling well at MSRP.

Thanks for your thoughts Eric!

And no worries...I won't be buying the 201's if I can't get a substantial discount

Out of curiosity, have you heard the Ampzilla, Pass Labs, or Halcro amps?

ekovalsky · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 07:21 am »

Some of the other good amps I have heard, and the speakers I heard them with, include:

Pass X600s (VMPS SuperTower III SRE, pre-neo version)
Theta Enterprise (Wilson Grand SLAMME)
Halcro DM58 (Avalon Osiris)
JRDG Model 9Ti, 302 (Magnepan MG-20.1, Wilson Grand SLAMME)
Krell MDA-500 (Apogee Diva, my house)
VTL Wotans (Sound Lab A1)
Boulder 2060 (Avalon Osiris)
Sonic Frontiers Power 3 (Sound Lab A1)
Acoustic Reality eAR mkII (G-R Alpha LS at azryan's house)
Aragon 8008BB (Apogee Diva and RM-40, my house)
PS Audio Classic 250 & HCA-2 (VMPS RM-40)

Can't really rank them since most were heard with different systems. The top three, IMO, are the JRDG 302, Boulder 2060, and Halcro. The JRDG is the value model in this company!

A dear friend in Nashville had Wotans. Best tube amp I've heard, but not an option in Arizona. Same with the SF Power 3.

The Aragons are very cheap on the used market and a great value for low impedance speakers. They drove the Divas very nearly as well as the big, hot running Krells as a fraction of the price. And they were very respectable on the RM-40's.

Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to hear the Ampzillas. Probably will at CES this year, though.

Horsehead · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 02:57 pm »

Hey Eric- how about some pics of the 302/4? I'm sure the JR website does not do them justice.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 04:50 pm »

I should have the amp in a week, I'll be sure to post pictures as it is a definitely an item of beauty. It deserves a sexy female name, but that would probably make my wife jealous

Don't count on seeing pictures of the RM/x anytime soon...

azryan · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 05:34 pm »

Dang, too bad you never got to hear my eARTwo on your system. A shoot-out between that Rowland and (formerly) my eARTwo would have been a'must hear'!

ekovalsky · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 06:07 pm »

azyran, that would have been interesting for sure. But your eAR and my RM-40's are in Florida now, hopefully Tony will give us an update on how that match works once he's settled.

If you are still interested in a a temporarary trade with an HCA-2 and the Newform let me know. Only audio I forsee having for a while is my car.

Housteau · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 07:40 pm »

What was done for CES 2002 and the RM-40's? Were they run full range by the mono Ampzilla's, bi-amped, or was the VMPS active crossover used?

Housteau · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 07:50 pm »

I see that you (ekovalsky) mentioned the PS Audio HCA-2. I have been reading about that one a bit, but have no experience with it. Please tell me, what are your impressions on that amplifier for the larger VMPS models such as the RM-40? Do you think it could be a good option for both the top and bottom end? I have read in various reviews that the bass was substantial and it was not harsh on the top, measuring up to many other much higher priced models. I have also read that about the similarly priced Musical fidelity A3.2.

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 08:04 pm »

Quote from: ekovalsky

I should have the amp in a week, I'll be sure to post pictures as it is a definitely an item of beauty. It deserves a sexy female name, but that would probably make my wife jealous

Don't count on seeing pictures of the RM/x anytime soon...

I have the JR #10, and it's a great amp (though I'm not driving VMPS speakers). It does everything well on my Linn speakers and my friend's speakers (the name of which I've temporarily forgotten, although they're better than my Linnss). I know what I paid for my amp, and yours is double the power of mine. Hopefully, it's not double the price. I wish JR would make an amp without the fancy case (or cases for my amp -- the power supply is in one case and the amp section is in another). I'd have to go for the "no frills" version, especially since I intend to encase everything anyway. (Who wants to see all those darn LEDs?) I know, it's a tragedy to encase something so beautiful, but I'll give it a gander every once in a while.

azryan · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 08:04 pm »

Hey Eric,

I thought you'd be getting those X's by now so you passed on the Newforms.

I'd be willing to do that temp. trade still.
That eAR's hard to A/B anyway though w/ the Speakon connectors and kinda tough to get at 'input cave' so probably wouldn't have told us much if it took 10-20min. to go from amp A to amp B. heh

I'm trying Sony's all digital 2000ES rec. now. Very interesting what it's doing. VERY detailed. Still cold and dry though but I can't say if that's inaccurate or not. I just don't know?

Crappy connections, remote and high noise floor too. 'Elevated Standard' my ass.

Still... seems like it's 120 over-rated high dist. rated Watts (though the PS Audio is also high dist. rated and only a little more power) is plenty to hammer awesome bass and dynamics.

You'll have to hear it. Not world class but some cool things about it.