Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 26779 times.

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #20 on: 27 Oct 2009, 06:34 am »
Some photos..................

Basic PCB:



In the enclosure, with included BNC-BNC cable:



Rear panel view:



No front panels yet, so no front panel view! (No, not much progress on that matter.........we are all waiting.)

Link to info:

http://analogresearch-technology.net/LEGATO.html

Pat

pfarthing

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 49
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #21 on: 28 Oct 2009, 01:55 am »
Looks great. Have you been able to test with Windows 7?

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #22 on: 28 Oct 2009, 02:23 am »
I'm lucky to have tested it with XP............!

Pat

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
"What are you doing at 4 AM?"
« Reply #23 on: 28 Oct 2009, 09:12 am »
Trying to find alternate suppliers of some parts that our usual suppliers don't have in stock, and are on back order for several weeks. Without getting gouged in the process.

There are days that I really hate this job, and today has been one.

Pat

MerlinWerks

Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #24 on: 28 Oct 2009, 09:39 am »
Looks great. Have you been able to test with Windows 7?

Works perfectly with Windows 7  :thumb:

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
"OK, so what happens when I have to use an adapter?"
« Reply #25 on: 28 Oct 2009, 08:40 pm »
Good question. Here are your answers. Might be more than you expected.

Output return loss of Legato, all by itself:



For some reason, the markers are not showing up. But anyway........you can see that the output return loss is around -45 dB, for most of the band, and stays below -30 dB, even out to 100 MHz.

What does this mean to you?

Easy. At -30 dB RL, only around 3% of any energy that hits that port will be reflected back to the source.

Most DACs and transports measure around -8 to -14 dB RL. That means that usually between 20% and 40% of the energy is reflected back to the source.

"Are there any better than -14 dB?"
Probably.
"Which ones?"
No idea.
"What causes the RL to be so poor?"
Lots of things: RCA jacks, inferior BNC jacks, wiring, PCB layout, the actual circuit itself contributes lots of it all by itself.

Unless you know how to handle those issues. OK, we can. But that is not the point of this. However, it is important to have that knowledge to understand what happens when you connect an adapter to a Legato.

OK, using a BNC-RCA, and then a RCA-BNC adapter, back-to-back. Not exactly what you will encounter, but it is a close approximation of what your DAC with a RCA would look like. Assuming that it actually is 75 ohms. (Which it isn't! Sorry, hard to resist.)



Yes, it does go up some. Still, it stays below -30 dB, up to around 20 MHz. (Remember, your DAC does not look this good!)

"Well, that is all fine and dandy, but what happens when you add a cable to it? Isn't that what really matters?"

Sure, but now the cable becomes a dominant part of the picture. So, here is what happens when you stick a U-byte cable onto it:



Not too bad..........close to -40 dB for most of the band. Below -30 dB all the way.

So, next the same adapter chain is added:



Yep..........looks worse. Stays below -30 dB only out to 20 MHz. Below -20 dB almost to 100 MHz. (Is your DAC this good??)

OK, the one you are really waiting for.............this is what it looks like with the included cable. Basically, a "cheap" version of the U-byte. Translation: the wire it is made with is affordable. About 1/7 the price, per foot.

Hey, we are including if for free. C'mon, how much more do we have to do to sweeten the deal? (If you don't like the cable, then cut the connectors off and send them back for credit. They are not cheap.)

OK, "El-Cheapo", all by itself:



Alright..........not as good. Still, -26 dB is only 5% reflection.

And now with the adapters:



Well, how 'bout that.............not much worse with the adapters until you get to over 30 MHz.

So, like I have been saying...............it is a good cable for the money ($0.00), and adapters don't muck it up too bad.

But you have to keep in mind..........

"Yeah, yeah, we know, Mr. Wise-Guy..........our DACs don't measure that good. You made your point, now shut up!"

OK, I will.

Happy listening,
Pat

Hebrew Hammer

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 546
  • www.Randall-K.com
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #26 on: 28 Oct 2009, 08:49 pm »
Pat for President!!!

Hope all is well sir!!!!!

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #27 on: 28 Oct 2009, 09:03 pm »
Still fuming about long lead times on some parts.............

Feh.

Pat

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
"Ok, but why are reflections so important?"
« Reply #28 on: 29 Oct 2009, 02:39 am »
Simple. Let's take a realistic example, but leave the contribution of the cable's reflection coefficient out of the equation. Makes things easier to explain.

Any time that you transmit a pulse down a transmission line, a certain amount is going to be reflected. Always. Just a matter of how much, and whether or not it is a problem.

Let's assume that we have a DAC that has an input RL of -20 dB. That means that 10% of the signal is not absorbed, and bounces back to the source. If the source also has a RL of -20 dB, then 10% of that reflection (10%) is re-reflected back to the DAC. This means that 1% of the total amount arrives at the DAC.

Is this a problem? Can be, but let's put this aside for a second.

In the case of the Legato, which has a RL of less than -40 dB, then less than 1% of that 10% which has bounced back can be sent forward to the DAC. In this case, we are only talking about less than 0.1%

See why RL is so important?

Now, if you have a fairly short cable, that only takes the signal 1 nSec or so to get there, the re-reflected pulse gets there 2 nSec or so after the initial pulse. So, it is possible that the reflection can arrive at a critical point in the waveform: the transition point.

1% of the original signal, arriving at the wrong time, may not sound like much. Granted, it isn't. But that doesn't mean that it won't muck up the sound. There is a good chance that it will have some effect. Not enough to generate errors, but enough to add some jitter.

So.......our approach addresses the problem in 2 ways. One, the Legato has a very low reflection coefficient, so it will not allow very much of any reflected signal to find its way back to the DAC. Even if it has a reflection of 10%, 20%, or even 40%.

The other little trick is that even our "El Cheapo" cable is fairly long. All that length, which may seem needless, actually helps. It takes any reflection over 40 nSec to go from the DAC, back to the Legato and back to the DAC. After 40 nSec, any reflection will arrive at a point in the waveform where it can not do any harm to the transition point. That is all there is to it. (The SPDIF signal is around 700 nSec.)

So, very little reflected energy, and it arrives at a point where it can't really muck up the sound.

OK..........I'll shut up now and go back to my ugly little room.........trying to track down parts that we ran out of.

Pat

joeling39

Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #29 on: 31 Oct 2009, 02:48 pm »
Is this shipping yet ? Do u do 240V ?

Regards,
Joe Ling

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #30 on: 31 Oct 2009, 04:49 pm »
Yes, to both. The first batch or so will have to ship with a blank front panel. We may offer a promotional discount, as we do not have a good guess when the fancy front panels will be ready. I should know more in a few days. At least, that was as of yesterday afternoon. That could change (again!) come Monday morning.

Pat

EDS_

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 725
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #31 on: 31 Oct 2009, 04:57 pm »
Yes, to both. The first batch or so will have to ship with a blank front panel. We may offer a promotional discount, as we do not have a good guess when the fancy front panels will be ready. I should know more in a few days. At least, that was as of yesterday afternoon. That could change (again!) come Monday morning.

Pat

Hey Pat,
I hope you are feeling better.

What are the chances I might be able to buy the unit I have.  It's absolutely fantastic.  I'll get a little "review" up today or tomorrow; I think it's important for others to know what you are up vis-a-vis the Legato.

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #32 on: 31 Oct 2009, 08:11 pm »
Already penciled in as yours. I do need to get "my" DAC back, as that is the only one here at the shop.

(It is an old Segue, made in '92 or so. Still sounds good. Too bad some of the parts in it are no longer made. Progress!)

Pat

tonyptony

Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #33 on: 2 Nov 2009, 02:23 am »
Pat, this is good to hear. How's the work coming along on the Duetta as well?

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #34 on: 3 Nov 2009, 02:51 am »
I may get back to it in a week or two.

Shameless plug time...............

http://analogresearch-technology.net/LEGATO.html

There is a link at the bottom of that page that contains some technical info that has been posted here. And some that has not. Some may find it interesting; others may be annoyed by it. You have been warned!

Pat

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #35 on: 9 Nov 2009, 07:36 pm »
We are supposed to have front panels in about 2 weeks. At least, that is what I was told, after we agreed on what to do.

Progress. Slow, but still it is progress.

Pat

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #36 on: 1 Dec 2009, 07:09 am »
Well, the folks who are making the front panels have the material to make them. I have been given a date that we will have them, but for some obtuse reason, I am not sure that I believe them.

Units with blanks panels are still available. Yes, the promotional discount still applies. I think it is reasonable to say that it will not extend into next year. Hint, hint.

Pat

joeling39

Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #37 on: 4 Dec 2009, 05:37 am »
Hi Pat,

Are u ready to ship outside of USA ?

I am still keen to purchase 1 unit.

Regards,
Joe Ling
Malaysia

Well, the folks who are making the front panels have the material to make them. I have been given a date that we will have them, but for some obtuse reason, I am not sure that I believe them.

Units with blanks panels are still available. Yes, the promotional discount still applies. I think it is reasonable to say that it will not extend into next year. Hint, hint.

Pat

art

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 845
    • Analog Research-Technology
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #38 on: 4 Dec 2009, 05:48 am »
Not until we get panels. You will know when we are. I still have your e-mail.

Keep your enthusiasm up!

Pat

NewBuyer

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 612
Re: Legato USB-SPDIF converter is ready
« Reply #39 on: 4 Dec 2009, 06:06 am »
Hi Pat,

On your website, you strongly recommend using a Mac with the Legato for best performance, rather than using a PC (non-Mac).  Out of curiosity please, why is there a performance difference, and what is the difference you noted?  Thanks in advance.