popcorn hour or laptop

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joef

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popcorn hour or laptop
« on: 3 May 2009, 10:04 pm »
Is any inherently better as a transport?
About to begin this foray into discless audio.
Sound quality more important than convenience.
Thanks

joef

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No replys, so I tested myself
« Reply #1 on: 21 May 2009, 01:41 pm »
Bought a Blue Circle Thingee USB-Spdif converter (4169) and a Western Digital HDTV mrdia player ($100 on sale).
Both sound better than the digital output of a Marantz 8001SACD player  but the sould of the Wetern Digital is the best - cleaner and more detail.
I was pretty amazed how it sounds. I was hoping the PC system would sound better since the GUI is better than Wetern Digitals.
Used Flac and Foobar.
The only other difference is that the Western Digital used a 6ft Toslink connector whereas the PC was a 15ft spdif coax.
Next step will probably be a popcorn hour or Iobox so I can get a better GUI, more support , and 24/192 possibility.

Rest of system:
Monarchy 33 DAC
Odysset Tempestpreamp
Odyssey Stratos Extreme amp
Magnepan 1.6 spreakers




joef

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That (4169) should be ($169) nt
« Reply #2 on: 21 May 2009, 01:43 pm »
nt

joef

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #3 on: 21 May 2009, 10:37 pm »
Starting to get tired of talking to myself!
With the little I know I wonder if the long cable, jitter, or computer noise could have affected the sound.
Would a squuzebox be a viable alternative to keep the clarity and detail I heard with the western digital but still use the foobar interface.
Any thoughts?
Time for medication?

Joe

jkeny

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #4 on: 28 May 2009, 11:28 am »
Joe,
I'll talk to you but I don't know a lot - just investigating this myself & am mainly interested in audio, like you - look at this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65732.0 where Mike is about to try a linear Power Supply on an iobox to improve the sound quality.
Hope this helps?

All the elements that you mention would have an effect on the sound quality so it's a case of trying to identify what is giving you the sound that you like from the WD but also avoid being fooled by apparent extra detail - this can often mean higher distortion (higher even harmonics)

What I'm looking for in audio is effortless, non-fatiguing sound with realistic detail!

chadh

Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #5 on: 28 May 2009, 01:21 pm »

Using a squeezebox will not allow you to use use the Foobar interface.  The squeezebox uses a proprietary interface now knows as "squeezecenter", which is actually quite nice.  You can test out the interface for yourself before buying a squeezebox:  download "softsqueeze" from the logitech site, and it runs the interface as a straightforward music player for your PC.

As for finding the best transport, it's anybody's guess what will work best.

The squeezebox is nice (I used one for a few years).  It caught peoples' imaginations because it was relatively inexpensive to upgrade, either with improved power supplies, or internal modifications.  But poor power supplies, wireless interference, and even interference from ints own internal features (like the display) can pollute your sound.

Running your PC through a USB-to-SPDIF converter like the USB thingy is an option.  But beware of a few things.  Many of these inexpensive converters are inexpensive for a reason.  You're probably better having one that uses its own power supply, rather than running off power supplied through the USB connection, as power supplied through the PC is notoriously noisy.  Many people have had success using the converter from Trends, which has a price very similar to the USB Thingy.

Be aware that this approach gives you countless sources of jitter and noise.  Your PC power supply and internal components potentially degrade your sound.  The way the operating system handles music may degrade your sound.  The particular USB architecture can degrade your sound.  The audio drivers you use can degrade your sound.  The power supplied to the converter may degrade your sound.  The converter-chip might be crappy.  The RCA connectors may not be true 75ohm connectors, and the spdif protocol has all sorts of problems.

Unfortunately, heading in a different pc-based direction usually means just trading one problem for another.

Currently, I have a cheap netbook with solid state drives running foobar.  It's got a wired ethernet connection to remote network storage where the flac files are kept.  I use a USB dac.  I think it sounds great, but I'm sure it could be improved in many ways.

Even sticking to the two tools you have now, there are many experiments you can do to see how things affect your sound.  Try the pc based solution through a different usb port; try it through a laptop or desktop instead;  try it with the battery powering the laptop; mae sure you're using an ASIO driver, or have implemented kernel streaming. The list goes on.

Good luck.

Chad

joef

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2009, 02:09 pm »
Thanks for the replys.
I think the comment about the Wewstern Digital HDTV may be correct.
The extra 'detail' sounds more harsh and fatiguing after prolonged listening.
I ordered a logitech duet which I should get next week and will give that a try.
Could always return it if no improvement over the PC with USB/spdif.
Not to keen about a laptop since I have a PC in my listening room already and my wife has a fanatical objection to me getting a laptop for music.
Am also looking to get a DAC with better jiier redction.
Short list is DacMagic, PS Audio, or Benchmark.
Joe

jkeny

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2009, 02:22 pm »
Yea, you got to give an extended listen before you decide better/worse! (correction, I should have said above that higher odd harmonics can give the illusion of more detail)

Here's the way I favour - haven't implemented it yet - M-Audio transit for Asynchronous USB audio - asynch USB is half the battle in getting low jitter audio out of the PC - the other bits necessary in conjunction are low jitter clock in the transit & powered from a clean PS, not the USB. Other bit- galvanic isolation from the PC's dirty ground.

I haven't seen anybody modding one yet to do all this so I'm researching. Steve Nugent (Empirical Audio) uses the Transit as the means to do asynch USB from PC & he mods them for use with his low jitter Pace Car DAC.

I think that the transit as a transport and I2S feed to a Sabre DAC would be a great combo

joef

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2009, 04:00 pm »
Do you know if the M Audio Transit is compatalbe with Vista?
Thanks

jkeny

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2009, 04:04 pm »
I stayed away from Vista - I think I read that there were some driver issues with it & vista but not sure if they're now resolved!

mgalusha

Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #10 on: 28 May 2009, 05:46 pm »
Here's the way I favour - haven't implemented it yet - M-Audio transit for Asynchronous USB audio - asynch USB is half the battle in getting low jitter audio out of the PC - the other bits necessary in conjunction are low jitter clock in the transit & powered from a clean PS, not the USB. Other bit- galvanic isolation from the PC's dirty ground.

There is a thread on Head-Fi about modding the Transit with a transformer output to provide galvanic isolation. Found it: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/adding-coaxial-s-pdif-m-audio-transit-129132

mike

avta

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #11 on: 28 May 2009, 07:44 pm »
joef
I think you will enjoy the Duet. I've been using one of the older Squeezebox 2's for a couple of years and recently bought a Duet. What is really nice is that you can access internet radio sites as well as stream music files from your computer to the Duet and play them through your audio system. I agree with your thoughts about getting a DAC. I'm only familiar with the Benchmark. I think it's a good value. Using the digital output of the Duet to the DAC will give you a better quality sound in my opinion. The built in DAC in the Duet is ok but not up to the quality of the Benchmark. Having said that I would still suggest that you listen to the analogue output of the Duet before deciding.

joef

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2009, 08:50 pm »
Yes, I look forward to getting the Duet and will give it a month listening with the monarchy DAC and the Duet analog before deciding the next step.
Already ordered an upgraded (?) power supply for the Duet which may help the anolog out sound.
Thanks,
Joe

jkeny

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Re: popcorn hour or laptop
« Reply #13 on: 28 May 2009, 09:12 pm »
Thanks for the link, Mike, had a read - interesting but they didn't get to changing the PS or clock - without these changes to the Transit, asynch USB is not really of much benefit. I can't find anybody who has done/documented these mods - maybe the clock mod is not feasible?