VR4 SR MKII extreme makeover...from great to really great..

audio_builder · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 May 2009, 01:55 am »

My bad. I forgot to mention the Analysis Plus wire.

$28,000.00 you say?

es347 · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 May 2009, 03:02 am »

Apparently so audio_builder. Granted these are not Altec Lansings but there is method to VSA's madness regarding construction of the crossovers. BTW, have you ever heard a pr. of Albert's speakers? If not, that may explain your skepticism. We need Albert to jump in with an explanation at this point. I'm not qualified to answer nor interested in doing so quite frankly. Thanks for the post however.

audio_builder · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 May 2009, 03:39 am »

Hello es347,

You are definitely right, they are not Altec. I have had the opportunity of hearing one pair of Albert’s speakers. I have no skepticism about the speakers; I was just commenting on the parts and build quality vs the price of the speaker.

A picture is worth a thousand words. No need for any other explanations.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Enjoy the music.
Lee

JackD201 · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 May 2009, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: audio_builder on 7 May 2009, 01:55 am

$28,000.00 you say?

You know what they say.........Ya can't take it with ya!

Go Gavin! May the pleasure you get wipe away the sticker shock!

VSA_JOE · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 May 2009, 06:37 pm »

The speakers are still under construction, and if I were to post all of Albert's secrets for his crossovers and cabinet construction on the internet, he'd kill me

Anyways, Albert let us take these pictures as a favor for a customer, and we tried to do our best, but of course the pictures didn't come out professional because we had to lay off our photographer(just kidding, we just don't know how to take pictures). As for parts used, I wouldn't say garden variety, you can't even go out and buy some of the parts we use as they are custom made to Albert's specs for Von Schweikert Audio. Please understand, the price difference for from the VR-4SR to the VR-5 Anniversary is largely due to the custom parts used in the crossovers, and the custom drivers we have modified for us(which costs a lot of money if that makes you feel better about it) that's what makes the VR-5 far more superior than the VR-4SR. The VR-5 may look like your "garden variety" but they got a whole lot going on that you don't know about that makes them unique and special, just like the blue foot chicken (look up blue foot chicken up on google)

es347 · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 May 2009, 08:55 pm »

Hi Joe,

Thanks for jumping in but no need to defend your company to me or anyone else. The accusations about cheap parts and poor enclosure construction were made by someone who unfortunately doesn't have the full story and perhaps may even have an axe to grind. I was excited to share this experience with the VSA circle regulars...pictures of the construction process...but it has degraded into an attack on VSA. I have asked Delacroix to pull the thread and I will simply enjoy my new speakers without the negative distractions.

One last volley regarding the crossovers: the fact that Albert refuses to use PC boards for parts mounting and interconnection shows his attention to detail. It never made sense to me to spend good money on expensive cabling only to find that when connected to its destination, the signal path runs through a printed circuit board with precious little current conducting ability not to mention the potential problems with induced currents, crosstalk and so forth due to close proximity of components. Albert figured this out over 30 years ago and as a result, builds superior sounding crossovers. They may look a bit home made but the proof is in the sound. He also employs very expensive parts...the ones in the signal path...regardless of what some people have said from viewing the photos. OK that's my rant for the day. Read quick because this thread is headed for the great cyberspace graveyard.

Gavin

garyleg · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 May 2009, 09:16 pm »

Please don't pull this thread because of one erant comment. I have enjoyed this thread and was looking forward to reading and seeing more.

Pleeeeeeass,

Gary

es347 · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:07 pm »

Yeah Gary, isn't that the way it goes. I was looking forward to sharing with you guys but Albert and I discussed this and we agree that it's best to pull the plug. It was my idea to post the in-process pictures even though he was somewhat reluctant to do so primarily because of his crossover designs. What the uninitiated see in what appears to be a bit of a Rube Goldberg construction is in fact breakthrough. Albert could use PC boards if he wanted but he has learned by careful testing that the crossovers sound better if you employ adequately sized point-to-point wiring and pay close attention to how the components are arranged relative to one another. It may not look pretty but it sure sounds pretty. Negative comments about the parts he uses are just flat wrong. Everything in the signal path is expensive and carefully thought out. That's enough from me. I'm just sorry that Albert has come under this scrutiny and I am following his wishes to have delacroix zap the thread.

Gavin

jermmd · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:35 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 7 May 2009, 10:07 pm

Yeah Gary, isn't that the way it goes. I was looking forward to sharing with you guys but Albert and I discussed this and we agree that it's best to pull the plug. It was my idea to post the in-process pictures even though he was somewhat reluctant to do so primarily because of his crossover designs. What the uninitiated see in what appears to be a bit of a Rube Goldberg construction is in fact breakthrough. Albert could use PC boards if he wanted but he has learned by careful testing that the crossovers sound better if you employ adequately sized point-to-point wiring and pay close attention to how the components are arranged relative to one another. It may not look pretty but it sure sounds pretty. Negative comments about the parts he uses are just flat wrong. Everything in the signal path is expensive and carefully thought out. That's enough from me. I'm just sorry that Albert has come under this scrutiny and I am following his wishes to have delacroix zap the thread.

Gavin

What a shame. I was just curious about the price and I love the speakers. One of the nicest setups I've ever heard were VR5's with VAC amplification.

I should have known better than to bring up price since it invariably leads to problems. For now on, I'll google it or use PM to find out prices.

Sorry.

ceedee · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:37 pm »

Dear Gavin,

As a representant of VSA for more than 12 years now, I spoke a large number of 'sceptists'.
There are always people who do not understand this theory.
Only a few seem to know that point to point wire acts best. Tube designers know this for years.

Guys like 'Altec' might be jealous, they probably bought speakers at more cost looking very expensive with beautifully build crossoverparts, often with gold but not sounding really like music.

One day 'the dime will fall', if they really like music.

Good luck,

Cor

McTwins · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:42 pm »

audio_builder · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:55 pm »

Wow. I described the parts what were in a picture and everybody gets all fussy.

Why is everybody so sensitive about the cheap parts in a high end speaker?

What happened to the idea of open communication and intelligent discussions about audio?

McTwins · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 May 2009, 10:57 pm »

Delacroix · « **Reply #33 on:** 7 May 2009, 11:01 pm »

Folks

Let's stay calm here - Altec explained his view and others have theirs on matters of price and quality. I read no offence in anyone's comments. I just don't really understand how anyone can determine quality of sound (which is what we are paying for, surely) from a picture of a speaker's innards but I'm ready to be enlightened.

Those of us who've heard Albert's designs tend to like them and think them worth our money. I think the pics are great for all of us who want to learn more but it's up to VSA if they wish to share them or not, unless someone here wants to take their speaker apart and post the results (don't all rush at once

In the meantime, let's keep the forum civil and informative, and yes, let's allow some room for honest exchange of differing values.

Peace

Delacroix (facilitator)

McTwins · « **Reply #34 on:** 7 May 2009, 11:36 pm »

es347 · « **Reply #35 on:** 7 May 2009, 11:43 pm »

Quote from: audio_builder on 7 May 2009, 10:55 pm

Wow. I described the parts what were in a picture and everybody gets all fussy.

Why is everybody so sensitive about the cheap parts in a high end speaker?

What happened to the idea of open communication and intelligent discussions about audio?

That's just it Lee, the parts aren't cheap. I realize you are apparently up on this sort of thing but according to Albert, the parts are far from cheap and if it's ok with you, I choose to believe him. I'm all for intelligent conversations about audio but I don't think your comments have been objective at all. If you have a beef with high end mfrs. so be it but why troll here and trash VSA speakers, especially knowing that someone, namely me, just purchased them. Yeah I'm getting fussy and so would you if you were belittled after making a significant purchase. If you feel strongly about making your point, you can email Albert personally at albert@vonschweikert.com. I'm willing to bet that you may come away from that exchange with a different opinion.

es347 · « **Reply #36 on:** 7 May 2009, 11:58 pm »

My apologies to all you misguided VSA owners for starting this exercise in panty twisting. You gotta appreciate the display of solidarity though

If anyone is interested, there's a Altec Lansing crossover on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180354085056...the opening bid is $0.99

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

JackD201 · « **Reply #37 on:** 8 May 2009, 01:06 am »

I really don't want this thread to be derailed into costing for chrissakes but let me say one thing. I have a whole lot of friends who are into vintage and DIY. We offer each other mutual respect and we listen for the good things in each others systems. They can be so different but enjoyable none the less. We've managed to all become steadfast friends because we never question each others personal listening preferences.

Over copious amounts of alcohol however, we've had many discussions regarding prices of parts and cabinetry. Even the price of painting. While they are right when it comes to off the shelf parts what they often forget is LABOR and more importantly KNOWLEDGE (how do you put a pricetag on that?). My DIY friends count labor as FREE. Time is money however and I illustrated this to them with a simple exercise.

I took what I make in a year from my day job and divided that into working hours per year. Assuming, and boy this is a BIG assumption, all parts were off the shelf and assuming I had the knowledge, tooling, paint booth and skill to build everything myself. Linearly it would take me about 3 years to build a VR-9. Now take away what I would have earned had I stuck to my day job along with that and suddenly the VR-9s turn into $3,000,000 speakers. That's just LABOR! We all had a good laugh. They said what if you only make $50,000 a year? Well I said they'd still cost you $300,000 wouldn't they? Besides I said if you buy speakers that cost almost as much as two years income you should be spending your money on THERAPY. That was the BIGGER LAUGH!

So lighten up folks. It's all good!

audio_builder · « **Reply #38 on:** 8 May 2009, 01:11 am »

You are right Gavin. VSA are great speakers. I wish I could afford a pair. I guess I will just go back and listen to my Altecs.

Maybe as I get old and deaf I will by a pair of VSA.

Enjoy your “anniversary cost-no-object” speakers.

Lee

Danberg · « **Reply #39 on:** 8 May 2009, 02:05 am »

Where are the photos you talk about?

I'd love to see them!!!!