I need more power!

floresjc · « **on:** 23 Apr 2009, 07:29 pm »

Ok, so I put some money down and will be getting HT2-TL's this fall when I get back from Afghanistan. Thanks a bunch to Dennis Murphy and RSwerdlow for letting me demo their speakers. What I'm looking at system wise is basically a 5.1 setup, with the HT2-TL's up front, the HTC center (although modified to match my HT2 tweeter), and a SongSub. If I have any money left, I'll get the standard ST for the rears, but right now I'm planning on just re-using either my Rocket 760 towers or 250MKII monitors.

I'm mainly looking at 2 options when it comes to powering this, and I've allotted myself $3k for power. I've heard the raves about Wyred4Sound amps, and for my purposes, I'm looking very strongly at the 5x250W amp for my home theater setup. Now, my home theater and 2 channel set up are the same thing, since I don't have a dedicated space in my house. Since the HT2's and ST are very efficient and somewhere between 4 and 6 ohms, they'll each receive north of 300W from this amp and possibly as much as 500W, which is plenty. The other option I was considering for the same price (actually $400 less), is the AVA Insight 240 for the front mains, and the Insight 240/3 channel for the center and rears. I would go double die upgrade for extra current handling, as its not much more cost, putting me around 250W per channel.

What is hanging me up on this is I've never heard the Wyred4Sound amps. They sound great from the reviews, and whats really awesome is how efficient and cool running they are. They can be left on all the time or auto triggered. Plus, compared to the AVA setup, they have a bit more headroom. The one downside is hear that they some times rolloff the high's, and the bass is perhaps a little too tight, there's not enough decay to get a warmth or full bodied sound. I was able to listen to an AVA amp at Dennis', and his amps seem to not have that particular trait, was a great sound. But they will run hotter and are not as efficient, and have less headroom.

Anyone who has used these amp manufacturers, or has any experience listening with them, please comment. I sure would appreciate the insight. Also, if anyone thinks I'm doing a bad thing by going with HT2-TL's in a HT setup, rather than ST all around, let me know your opinions as well. Ultimately, since it has to do dual duty, I wanted the best possible sound up front, which is what swayed me.

Nuance · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 07:43 pm »

I haven't heard wyred or AVA, but if I had $3000 I'd get this and never look back.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0PAHA51

Good luck in the hunt, and thanks for serving our country (I assume that's why you're going to Afghanistan). You are a true patriot.

floresjc · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 07:55 pm »

Hold the medals, I'm only a DoD civilian. I leave in a couple weeks and will be gone for 4 months. The guys in uniform aren't so lucky.

bummrush · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 08:12 pm »

You better listen long and hard if you go for digital amps,some like em some dont,the thing is their weakness DOES NOT show up at first,you need way more extended listening for these . Yes efficient and cool running are nice features,but if you have the space for regular stuff ,don't get hung up on stats ,do get hung on sound,AVA is also good stuff.Also your line about good reviews is meaningless all the more so with dig. amps.

turkey · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 08:26 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 23 Apr 2009, 07:29 pm

plenty. The other option I was considering for the same price (actually $400 less), is the AVA Insight 240 for the front mains, and the Insight 240/3 channel for the center and rears. I would go double die upgrade for extra current handling, as its not much more cost, putting me around 250W per channel.

I would recommend this.

Quote

I was able to listen to an AVA amp at Dennis', and his amps seem to not have that particular trait, was a great sound. But they will run hotter and are not as efficient, and have less headroom.

I haven't found that my AVA amp runs hot. ???

AVA amps always sound more powerful than their ratings would lead you to believe. I would expect that they will drive your speakers better than the other amp will.

You've already heard how AVA amps sound, and Dennis and Jim both like them too. Since they also cost less - what are you waiting for?

floresjc · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 08:36 pm »

Yah, I'm probly 30-60 days out from acquiring my stuff. But I'm prolly going to go AVA. I thought they might run a little hot being analog, and I didn't get to run Dennis' amp all day, so you never know. His was pretty cool at the end of our listening session.

R Swerdlow · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 08:50 pm »

Congrats on your choices. HT2-TLs, an HTC center, and a SongSub! Excellent. If you get those two STs to round out your system, you'll be the resident expert on the differences between the two.

I can't really offer you any amp advice other than to say, AVA amps are a known factor to you and many others here, and they're made in the USA. I wouldn't worry too much about their heat. Where are the Wyred4Sounds made?

Protect those ears while you're over there.

Richard

bummrush · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 08:54 pm »

AVA will have plenty of headroom

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 09:00 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 23 Apr 2009, 08:26 pm

Quote from: floresjc on 23 Apr 2009, 07:29 pm
plenty. The other option I was considering for the same price (actually $400 less), is the AVA Insight 240 for the front mains, and the Insight 240/3 channel for the center and rears. I would go double die upgrade for extra current handling, as its not much more cost, putting me around 250W per channel.

I would recommend this.

Quote
I was able to listen to an AVA amp at Dennis', and his amps seem to not have that particular trait, was a great sound. But they will run hotter and are not as efficient, and have less headroom.

I haven't found that my AVA amp runs hot. ???

AVA amps always sound more powerful than their ratings would lead you to believe. I would expect that they will drive your speakers better than the other amp will.

You've already heard how AVA amps sound, and Dennis and Jim both like them too. Since they also cost less - what are you waiting for?

+1 ! My T-8 is kinda hot, but only because of the tubes. Also, your power depends on the gain of your pre-amp to some extent. After I added T-8, I cannot go beyond "2 o'clock" setting of its volume control, while I could easily listen at 100% (5 o'clock) of my DAC's volume control (the amp is 130 Wpc/8 Ohm). Frank has a write-up about gain, etc somewhere on the Lab circle for reference.

floresjc · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 09:24 pm »

Wyred4Sound is a California company, although I don't know where they manufacture their amps. Just off hand, I have a passing thought that it may be Korea, their parent company is rather large, but Wyred4Sound is not that big. I'm just a little wary of the digital sound and I may have to track one down before I go or when I return. I don't want it to be rolled off, or not enough fullness, but I know at least a couple posters on here use them to great liking. They hadn't really gotten into specifics on sound that I could remember though.

Nuance · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 09:33 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 23 Apr 2009, 07:55 pm

Hold the medals, I'm only a DoD civilian. I leave in a couple weeks and will be gone for 4 months. The guys in uniform aren't so lucky.

Gotcha. Still, DoD? That's pretty cool. Seriously, thanks for what you do.

BRM has a the wyred monoblocks and loves them. With that said, amps are subjective, so best to listen before you buy. If you liked AVA, then there you go.

Otherwise some of the best I've heard are:

McCormack
Parasound
Audio Research
Rotel
Bryston
Sunfire
ATI

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 10:53 pm »

I would also recommend the AVA amps. Frank has brought solid state electronics to a new level with the Insight series. The Insight preamp, amp, and DAC are extremely detailed and have incredible dynamic range. The clarity, depth, speed, and openness is amazing, and despite their solid state design, these components do not have any harshness or brightness or sterile or clinical sound sometimes associated with many solid state components. Frank "voices" the components the same, whether the solid state, hybrid, or tube designs. There are differences, undoubtedly, but I think that the differences between the Insight and T8 lines, solely from comparing my Insight DAC and T8 tube DAC, is the dynamic range. While I was waiting for my HT2-TL, I was using a pair of Linn speakers with a bright tweeter, and I used the T8 DAC instead of the Insight DAC because the T8 DAC has less volume at the top end (and very bottom end) than the Insight DAC, but with the HT2-TL, the Insight DAC is preferable. The Insight gear mates very well with both the ST RT and the HT2-TL, in my experience.

BRM didn't like the AVA Insight amp but has since sold the W4S amps, IIRC.

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 11:48 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 23 Apr 2009, 09:33 pm

Quote from: floresjc on 23 Apr 2009, 07:55 pm
Hold the medals, I'm only a DoD civilian. I leave in a couple weeks and will be gone for 4 months. The guys in uniform aren't so lucky.
Gotcha. Still, DoD? That's pretty cool. Seriously, thanks for what you do.

BRM has a the wyred monoblocks and loves them. With that said, amps are subjective, so best to listen before you buy. If you liked AVA, then there you go. Otherwise some of the best I've heard are:

McCormack
Parasound
Audio Research
Rotel
Bryston
Sunfire
ATI

I am not sure this is applicable or not but at some point along the way I read that outlaw and ATI use alot of the same parts and chassis, it even may have been implied they use similar designs, but I am not sure about that, I suppose that is my question ATI sound similar to the outlaw amps? Anyone have any info regarding that?

jsalk · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 02:17 am »

Quote from: rahimlee54 on 23 Apr 2009, 11:48 pm

I am not sure this is applicable or not but at some point along the way I read that outlaw and ATI use alot of the same parts and chassis, it even may have been implied they use similar designs, but I am not sure about that, I suppose that is my question ATI sound similar to the outlaw amps? Anyone have any info regarding that?

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that ATI builds amps to Outlaw's specs. If you look at their product lines, their configurations are exactly the same.

- Jim

robinje · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 04:38 am »

I had a pair of Wyred4Sound (W4S) SX-500 monoblocks, but I sold them after I bought my AVA Ultra 350 stereo amp. It sounds better to me driving my SongTower RT's. I liked the W4S amps (solidly built, cool running, etc.), but the AVA amp just sounds more musical to my ears, and less clinical. Both the AVA and W4S amps have more than ample balls with the SongTowers for any sane listening level. I like my AVA amp so much, I could be considered an AVA "addict" and have subsequently purchased an Ultra DAC and Ultra SL preamp (with phono and remote). I have no regrets and plan to keep my AVA gear a long, long time.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 05:50 am »

Quote from: robinje on 24 Apr 2009, 04:38 am

I like my AVA amp so much, I could be considered an AVA "addict" and have subsequently purchased an Ultra DAC and Ultra SL preamp (with phono and remote). I have no regrets and plan to keep my AVA gear a long, long time.

Perhaps a more proper term is AVA enthusiast or loyal AVA customer. The stuff functions for such a long time, particularly with Frank's upgrade options, that it is difficult to purchase enough equipment to satisfy the definition of an addict. However, I do have a couple of 20+ year old pieces of AVA gear that I don't use but have difficulty parting with, including a Super 70i that I just like to admire, but I would only become a "collector" rather than an addict. "Audio jewelry," Frank disdainfully refers to the practice of buying gear for aesthetic appeal. I fully intended to use the Super 70i, but then I bought the Insight 440. You know how it is. That T8 DAC, well, it was such a good deal, and the minty Omega 50, how many of those do you see around? I couldn't pass that up. Don't worry, I am speaking at the next AVAAA meeting. "I was powerless over audio, and my life had become unmanageable;...."

jd3 · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 10:40 am »

Quote from: jsalk on 24 Apr 2009, 02:17 am

Quote from: rahimlee54 on 23 Apr 2009, 11:48 pm
I am not sure this is applicable or not but at some point along the way I read that outlaw and ATI use alot of the same parts and chassis, it even may have been implied they use similar designs, but I am not sure about that, I suppose that is my question ATI sound similar to the outlaw amps? Anyone have any info regarding that?

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that ATI builds amps to Outlaw's specs. If you look at their product lines, their configurations are exactly the same.

- Jim

Jim is correct. All of Outlaw's multichannel amps are made by ATI in California. Their mono amps are made overseas. I haven't heard ATI's amps but love my Outlaw 7500 paired with my ST's.

John

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 01:07 pm »

I use an ATI 1506 with my 5 SongTowers and I think it is a very good combination for HT.

I have felt no need or urge to upgrade things (which says a lot). aa

George

earthbound · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 01:53 pm »

You guys have already got me looking at amps and I don't even have my new Salks yet. Jim says my Denon receiver will drive the HT2-TLs just fine, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Going into ignore-this-thread mode now before it's too late.

Nuance · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: robinje on 24 Apr 2009, 04:38 am

I like my AVA amp so much, I could be considered an AVA "addict" and have subsequently purchased an Ultra DAC and Ultra SL preamp (with phono and remote). I have no regrets and plan to keep my AVA gear a long, long time.

There seem to be a lot of those people around here (AVA addicts). I really need to hear one of his amps.