Would CD-R labels have any sonic benefit for normal CD's?

Tonto Yoder · « **on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:14 pm »

The latest Music Direct catalog had several CD mats. Has anyone tried using CD-R labels to gain similar sonic benefits???? Ric Schultz of EVS suggests the benefit of green/black edging of CD's and six radial lines on CD's label; couldn't something like that be printed out on a CD-R label???

Herbie's Audio Labs also has the CD Mat; wonder how much similar benefit a mere CD-R label would have?? Of course, Herbie's mat isn't THAT expensive and works for ALL one's CD's--it wouldn't really be financially wise to put a CD label on all one's CD's.

satfrat · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 06:59 am »

Have you ever tried Memorex's black vinyl/wantabe CD-R's? They have a very real, dynamic sound to them. And you know the old saying,,,, "once you go black, you never go back".

Regards, Robin

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 11:26 am »

No, I actually don't have a CD-recorder: I was just wondering if the labels could be added to commercially recorded CD's to give some better sonics.

What's black about the Memorex?? The label side?? That was kinda what I was thinking with the CD-R labels--something printed out along the lines of a Marigo CD Mat

but actually stuck to them.

I thought the saying was "Once you go BAT, you'll never go back"? (from the happy owner of several pieces of BAT (Balanced Audio Tech))

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 12:50 pm »

The black Memorex sound like every other computer data grade disc I've used. No diff whatsoever, IMO. They look cool, though.

satfrat · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

The black Memorex sound like every other computer data grade disc I've used. No diff whatsoever, IMO. They look cool, though.

The black Memorex CD-R's (the look like miniture vinyl LP's) have sounded more dynamic with a fuller body of music when I've compared them to silver CD'R's to me. And considering the simularity in price, black where's it's at for me. Just my opinion, all tho lately I could see where that would be disregarded. But what the heck, I'll state it anywho.

Regards, Robin

F-100 · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 07:21 pm »

Where can you pick up these black Memorex CD-R's on-line? Are they available at local BestBuy or OfficeDepot?
Thanks.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:00 pm »

Don't get me wrong, Satfrat. I think they're cool: I sometimes use 'em just because they are neat to look at. But to me they sound the same. JMOHO, though.

I could see how on some gear they could sound better- I have seen machines that won't play certain brands, but those little LP looking ones always seem to play on anything.

I think you can get em at BB, at least you used to be able to.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: F-100

Where can you pick up these black Memorex CD-R's on-line? Are they available at local BestBuy or OfficeDepot?
Thanks.

Robin must be out tap'in those VT. maple trees

! He ordered the Memorex from here: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=426565 ...(CDW.com)

The Verbatim Digital Vinyl cdr's are here :[/list:u] http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=534227

F-100 · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:21 pm »

LoneWolf, thanks for the link (A picture worth a thousand words

.
Now I know what to look for when browsing through local shops.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:28 pm »

I knew what he meant.

I have used the Verbatim & Memorex black both. There's another brand that looks like littel LPs too, but I can't remember who makes em right now.

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 04:24 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

Quote from: F-100
Where can you pick up these black Memorex CD-R's on-line? Are they available at local BestBuy or OfficeDepot?
Thanks.
Robin must be out tap'in those VT. maple trees ! He ordered the Memorex from here: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=426565 ...(CDW.com)
The Verbatim Digital Vinyl cdr's are here :[/list:u]
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=534227
He has confused the two. Memorex is all BLACK. The Verbatim are Black on top only , wi ...

Me confused????? Could be,,, but I don't need no Michael Jackson (half&half) black CD-R thank you. I want BLACK, period. And that's the Memorex, to my ears the most realistic sound of the bunch. But don't hold me to it Rob.

Thanks Lonewolfy for digging the addy up for me.

Regards, Robin

Robert C. Schult · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 11:15 am »

Hey guys.

For what it's worth, here's my take on the Memorex and Verbatim blank CD-Rs.

First if you take your standard "Aluminum" CD and hold it up to the light, you can see through it. Not good! Also, if I hold this same CD in front my wife, I can see through her clothing and she's naked

. This is good(!) if your wife is a babe....I think my wife's a babe. For CD playback, as I understand it, if there's some transparency to your disc, some of the data can get lost as the laser reads the disc and cause the tracking function of the laser pick-up to work harder. Another "Not good" thing. I may be wrong here but that's what I've been able to figure out. Maybe someone else has better or more info on this.

As for why the Black versions of CD-Rs have the potential to sound better, it has to do with a couple of things. First, you can't see through these CDs which eliminates the problems mentioned above and, because they are black, I understand that the laser can focus better because there's less "scattering" of the laser as it reads the disc and that doesn't get fed back to the pick-up. Kind of another form of jitter I suppose.

I personally like the Verbatim CD-Rs for a couple of reasons; I like the aesthetic of a CD looking like a little LP (I'm still mainly a vinyl fan) but, intuitively, those little grooves can serve as breaking up resonance that can build up in the disc from mechanical or acoustic feedthrough/feedback. Also, they seem to be slightly thicker. I haven't taken the time to measure its thickness but they seem to be maybe .001"-.003" thicker. Thicker will generally offer a degree more of self-damping. While they don't sport a black burn side face, they do come in different colors than silver. I like the Green or Blue because, again, those colors also seem to create less scattering affects and, regardless the color, you can't see through them.

Also, perhaps a little on the bizarre side, in the near future, I'm going to fiddle with Cryo-Tempered blank CD-Rs and then record onto them and Cryo-Tempered recorded CD-Rs of the same music. I can understand why there may be some benefits to this but I won't have a firm opinion till I try it.

So, how valid is all this? I'm not sure. Maybe someone with more insight into this stuff can post here. What I do know is that to my ears, the Memorex and Verbatim CD-Rs sound better than the standard CD-Rs. It's not a HUGE difference but it takes one more variable of what can be bad for music playback out of the equation.

Last thing. Most of you may already know this but perhaps some of you don't. If you have a good to decent burner, you can make it better by isolating it and damping the transport. Then, when you burn your CDs, burn them slow. Commercial CDs are, by and large, just that. They are mass-produced and as a result, the lands and pits are not as clean as they should be. Burning CDs in your home usually produces a better copy than the original CD that you bought. Cleaner lands and pits.

So, there’s my $25.00 worth. Hope it's helpful.

BTW, the best thing I've found for standard aluminum CDs is they make great pictures of UFOs when you fling them in the air and shoot a picture of it. My friends think I have a special calling because I've "seen" an average of 7-13 UFOs a week for the past 8 months and just happen to have pictures to prove it!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 11:43 am »

Robert C. Schult wrote: "Also, if I hold this same CD in front my wife, I can see through her clothing and she's naked . This is good(!) if your wife is a babe....I think my wife's a babe. "..........she must be looking over your shoulder.

... Thanks for the info !!

Robert C. Schult · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 12:24 pm »

Quote

"..........she must be looking over your shoulder.

At this hour? Forget about it!

And honestly, if she were (at this hour) I wouldn't have been inclined to say that. Like me, she looks more like a blob than a babe this early!

viggen · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 01:49 am »

I have a laptop with CD-RW. I also have a few CD-RW that I use as data storage. How do I make a copy my CD onto the CD-RW, so I can hear how these black CD-Rs sound on my CD player? Do I need to DL some program?

I tried creating a file on my desktop and dragged data from the CD into it. Then, I dragged the data from this file onto the blank CD-RW. But, this didn't work...

WerTicus · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 03:40 pm »

yeah i think your wife is a babe too

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 08:16 pm »

I'm still waiting for the UFO pictures!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 09:12 pm »

Hey, this is a neat post...intriguing. hadn't thought about CD'R's of different colors mattering.

Tonto - don't know if you've used the Herbie mat...it is an excellent tweek. Really works thru (mostly) damping, I suppose. Interestingly, the inner cut out has green applied to the off-white color of the mat...further diffusing scattered laser matter. It works either way and a significant value for $20.00. Steve Herbelin is real easy going, too, doesn't rush you off ever.

Robert - If I may state again, you are a hoot! A little idea to drum up biz with your mostly male audience: buy one of your well thought of cables in the month of January, and receive a pic of Ms. Schult (midday, after caffeine), shot thru a clear Verbatim CD-R.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 May 2004, 12:41 am »

Latest newsletter from PS Audio mentions black CD-R's and their sonic benefit--

white paper here--
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/whitepaper/Black_CDsII.pdf

If you print out the white paper, you can see Robert's wife naked if you hold it up to the light.

WerTicus · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 May 2004, 09:13 am »

i havnt seen black cdr's around for a while