Difference in 4b sst and 4bsst squared series

Lancelot · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 Apr 2009, 06:33 pm »

I think James T. nicely summarizes how audiophiles come to distinguish between components. For some these differences and/or improvements are small enough that they simply either don't get it or don't care. Nothing wrong in that but the most obnoxious ones think that means everyone should agree with them.

Secondly , listeners sensitivity to these differences is likely to be quite varied. For instance, background noise from all but the quietest LP playback simply annoys me to the point that I can't enjoy it as a replay medium. Asking me if analog or digital playback is best is therefore rather meaningless unless you have the same *sensitivity* as I.

So asking whether the ST or SST or SSTsq. differences are significant is interesting mainly because you hear others reactions and try and see if you can see yourself in their *sensitivities*. The problem is that in the final analysis only you can really tell for yourself and the demise of many local dealers only exacerbates the problem.

danman · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Apr 2009, 06:41 pm »

When I compared the ST to the SST/2, I was conveying what I alone perceived as a "major" difference for me however our ears do not function the same for each of us and our preferences of sound are also different.

I suppose that the differences between these 2 models are more significant than the SST series that I never owned. I really like the high frequencies much more than what I had before and better dynamics.

rob80b · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 12:10 am »

I would think the sonic difference between the 4SST and 4BSST 2sq would be negligible if any, but from going from a ST and to a SST there was definitely an improvement in the upper frequencies after the implementation of better output transistors, especially if you like your music approaching live levels.
I believe James mentioned somewhere on one of these threads, that way back in the early days, the logo was changed and a number of listeners perceived a dynamic difference in sound.
Sometimes it’s more than our ears that do the listening.

ashtarul · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 12:52 am »

My two cents worth.
The biggest improvement in terms of sound per pound (or dollar, etc) will come from upgrading the speakers. Next is the source equipment. A good amplifier shouldn't have a sound or character of it's own. It should sound like the source and speakers. The reason to invest in a Bryston is the 20-year warranty, the superb build quality, and of course, James Tanner.

Ash.

werd · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 02:16 am »

I really like Jame's blonde/redhead scenario illustrating two different tastes. It also underscores the idea that, just be happy with the one you take home. The blonde will never be the redhead and the redhead will never be the blonde figuratively speaking. They both are beautiful and you've made your choice. Ive been guilty of this attitude mistake with my gear, I can say all it does is get in the way of enjoying my tunes.....worrying about what other gear might sound like.

danman · « **Reply #25 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 01:32 pm »

Totally agree with werd. We have some of the best gear available but as I said many time before, listen to the music and not the electronics as you will NEVER be satisfied. I know people that are so into the perfection of sound that they forget why they got involved with this hobby in the first place......MUSIC!!!

rob80b · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 02:24 pm »

I guess the above analogues are one way of looking at it, as long as your amp doesn’t get moody.
The problem lies in the fact that we do get a be romantic about our equipment at times, the bottom line is that our amps are a tool for amplifying a signal, it doesn’t care if the original sound waves were generated by a cello, female singer, an air raid siren or any electrical signal
There’s hopefully no tweaking going on that plays with the audio spectrum and harmonics and the amplified signal ends up as an exact replica of the original, but that's another can of worms which totally depends on the source, the pre-amp and any other electrical interference.
Well designed amps of similar power are probably the most difficult to tell apart, next the pre-amp, followed by the source, the speakers would obviously be the easiest to distinguish.
Room acoustics are almost certainly the most determining factor on the overall sound as well as speaker placement and one’s frame of mind when listening at any given moment.

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

“Hi All,

The changes in the 4B SST SQ circuitry are:

NEW POWER SWITCH AND MICRO SOFT START
INPUT RF FILTER
HIGHER INPUT IMPEDANCE
INPUT CAPACITOR CHANGE
FEEDBACK CAPACITOR CHANGE
FULLY BALANCED IN BRIDGED MODE
LOWER THD AND NOISE

James”

James Tanner · « **Reply #27 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 02:45 pm »

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

We use 6 of these:

How about a capacitor that costs $4,860?
Site < HERE >.

Bob

---discovered recently by one of the guys on the Hawthorne forum.

werd · « **Reply #28 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 03:36 pm »

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

“Hi All,

The changes in the 4B SST SQ circuitry are:

NEW POWER SWITCH AND MICRO SOFT START
INPUT RF FILTER
HIGHER INPUT IMPEDANCE
INPUT CAPACITOR CHANGE
FEEDBACK CAPACITOR CHANGE
FULLY BALANCED IN BRIDGED MODE
LOWER THD AND NOISE

James”

[/quote]

Hi Rob80

There is a difference between them both, however most of my listening isnt very loud (as loud as my AZ's will go basically at times) If your used to nite club spls then one would probably hear less of a change. I remember the 4bsst changes it's tonal characteristics as the volume increases, the 4bsp doesnt change at all (how that translates at spl levels i dont know). I've said before this isnt a total overhaul its still a Bryston. My guess is R0b80 , based on your gear posts, that you'd appreciate the diffs in the two. I think we have similar gear and volume listening habits.

rob80b · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 20 Apr 2009, 02:45 pm

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

We use 6 of these:

How about a capacitor that costs $4,860?
Site < HERE >.

Bob

---discovered recently by one of the guys on the Hawthorne forum.

With James putting a smily on there may in fact be a difference, as capacitors can have an effect on the sound/volume ratio depending on their ability and speed to charge up, hold and then release current, which makes sense if they're mentioning from the first to last watt.

James is that

supposed to be a link or just six smiles.

Robert

James Tanner · « **Reply #30 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:14 pm »

^
Hi Robert,

No the link does not work for some reason but was posted on the other Bryston thread - "Airing of The Grievances"

james

rob80b · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:20 pm »

Quote from: werd on 20 Apr 2009, 03:36 pm

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

“Hi All,

The changes in the 4B SST SQ circuitry are:

NEW POWER SWITCH AND MICRO SOFT START
INPUT RF FILTER
HIGHER INPUT IMPEDANCE
INPUT CAPACITOR CHANGE
FEEDBACK CAPACITOR CHANGE
FULLY BALANCED IN BRIDGED MODE
LOWER THD AND NOISE

James”

Hi Rob80

There is a difference between them both, however most of my listening isnt very loud (as loud as my AZ's will go basically at times) If your used to nite club spls then one would probably hear less of a change. I remember the 4bsst changes it's tonal characteristics as the volume increases, the 4bsp doesnt change at all (how that translates at spl levels i dont know). I've said before this isnt a total overhaul its still a Bryston. My guess is R0b80 , based on your gear posts, that you'd appreciate the diffs in the two. I think we have similar gear and volume listening habits.
[/quote]

Hi Werd,

I do normally listen at moderately loud levels (music), so that I can get the most out of my listening experience as my time is basically limited to a few hours a week (maybe)

, and very rarely as backround.

Robert

danman · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm »

In my non engineer opinion, I would think that less distortion, lower noise floor and better capacitance would lead to SOME inprovement in sound however I can only base this on a direct comparison from ST to SST/2 but would still think that at low to moderate volumes, you would be able to have a better sound in general.

I can definately say that the SST/2 amps are more speaker friendly with tough loads.

rob80b · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 20 Apr 2009, 05:14 pm

^
Hi Robert,

No the link does not work for some reason but was posted on the other Bryston thread - "Airing of The Grievances"

james

Quote from: James Tanner on 20 Apr 2009, 02:45 pm

So are there differences between the two SST’s in terms of sound, hard to tell but the new changes as James listed are minimal unless those are some capacitors.

We use 6 of these:

How about a capacitor that costs $4,860?
Site < HERE >.

Bob

---discovered recently by one of the guys on the Hawthorne forum.

Hi James

"We use 6 of these:

"

Thought this may be a link to your own capacitors.

Robert

werd · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: danman on 20 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm

In my non engineer opinion, I would think that less distortion, lower noise floor and better capacitance would lead to SOME inprovement in sound however I can only base this on a direct comparison from ST to SST/2 but would still think that at low to moderate volumes, you would be able to have a better sound in general.

I can definately say that the SST/2 amps are more speaker friendly with tough loads.

I just recently heard Mag's 3bsst and 3bst together in one system. I noticed (in my first impression)that the st and sst, tonally are more alike than the sst to the sst/sq is....in comparison.

danman · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 05:56 pm »

I would not know as I have never used a SST model. I suppose that each of us has their own opinion of what is different or not!

Hififreak · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 09:13 pm »

Quote from: danman on 20 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm

In my non engineer opinion, I would think that less distortion, lower noise floor and better capacitance would lead to SOME inprovement in sound however I can only base this on a direct comparison from ST to SST/2 but would still think that at low to moderate volumes, you would be able to have a better sound in general.

I can definately say that the SST/2 amps are more speaker friendly with tough loads.

Let the specs speak and sound:
SPECIFICATIONS AVAILABLE TO ALL SST² AMPLIFIERS
Distortion < 0.005% from 20Hz to 20kHz at rated output into 8 Ohms
IM or THD+noise < 0.007% from 20Hz to 20kHz at rated output into 4 Ohms
Noise
(Measured with input shorted; 20Hz. to 20kHz.)
>110dB below rated output @ 29dB gain (-75dBu)
>113dB below rated output @ 23dB gain (-78dBu)
>116dB below rated output @ 17dB gain (-78dBu)*
*setting available on models 6B & 9B only
Slew rate Greater than 60 volts per microsecond
Power bandwidth From less than 1 Hz to over 100 kHz
Damping factor Over 300 at 20 Hz, ref. 8 Ohms
Input Impedance 2B, 3B, 4B, 6B, 9B - 50k Ohms single ended, 40k Ohms balanced
7B, 14B, 28B - 15k Ohms single ended, 20k Ohms balanced

SPECIFICATIONS AVAILABLE TO ALL SST AMPLIFIERS
Distortion < 0.005% from 20Hz to 20kHz at rated output into 8 Ohms
IM or THD+noise < 0.007% from 20Hz to 20kHz at rated output into 4 Ohms
Noise
(Measured with input shorted; 20Hz. to 20kHz.)
>110dB below rated output @ 29dB gain (-75dBu)
>113dB below rated output @ 23dB gain (-78dBu)
>116dB below rated output @ 17dB gain (-78dBu)*
*setting available on models 6B & 9B only
Slew rate Greater than 60 volts per microsecond
Power bandwidth From less than 1 Hz to over 100 kHz
Damping factor Over 300 at 20 Hz, ref. 8 Ohms
Input Impedance 50k Ohms single-ended, 20k Ohms balanced (10k each leg)

Music is just emotion and Bryston (NRB, ST, SST etc.) is a beautiful product.

vegasdave · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 10:38 pm »

Well, I have heard the new 7B's at CES, and they are an improvement of the SST. They're more dynamic and go louder without strain. Among other things.

I don't think you can go wrong with the new series.

They're worth the increase in price I'd say. Sure, $900 is quite a bit more, but if you can swing it, it's worth it.

Plus you won't inherit someone elses troubles. You don't know what they did to or with the amp.

mitcho · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 06:03 am »

does not sound like a lot of change. I would assume there is little difference between the 3B SST and the SST2 as well. i.e. sonically not a lot of difference.

bkm · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:06 pm »

James I have sent you a message . Please go through urgently and reply.