High-Value Silver/Teflon Cable rollout test poll

Robert C. Schult · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 05:16 am »

Hello to those involved in the part of this thread that has gone wrong.

I wrestled with if I should post to this or not since Ridge Street Audio Designs was mentioned. I decided I would only to state at this point that Ridge Street Audio does not condone or endorse Phycicanimal's comments or commentary style. Frankly, I'm somewhat embarrassed. Please do not associate Ridge Street with the type of attitude displayed by Phycicanimal or anyone who participates in these threads in this manner.

To VeraStarr, Kudos to you for offering the music enthusiast community a nice sounding (my assumption) speaker cable product in the more affordable range.

viggen · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 06:27 am »

I would think the smart thing to do is to remain quiet. However, I feel a great injustice has been brought about. It is not Francisco who started tangents into an array of adhom attacks. It is the vendor.

After answering whether he thinks there is a market for the cable in question, Francisco is chasitized by the vendor. This is how I read his statement, "Thats strange, I wonder why so many people use it?"

Not only is this statement used to single out Francisco as an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. It is also a fallacy. Just because everyone else use it thus it is good?

Maybe in a very blunt fashion, but Francisco offered the vendor an excellent suggestion in trying to innovate a new product rather than just enter a market that is already saturated with "me too" products. This is a wise business suggestion as well as an honest opinon from an audiophile.

Did the vendor heed the suggestion? No. Instead, he pleaded to an "authority" source stating that Audioquest with all their R&D spending power can't be wrong. This, again, is a fallacy and a statement of a coward, definitely not an innovator.

Things after this went off into total tangents. I shall stop here. Lets keep things civilized. Stop trying to ostracize every little vice. Lighten up.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 06:43 am »

I think it was the "hanging chad's" !

viggen · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 07:17 am »

I think something else is hanging. This thread was started for the purpose of asking whether there will be interest for a product, lets call it "A".

In marketing research, we will poll or conduct focus group to whether "A" is a good idea or whether it needs improvements. Feedback on "A" is then sent back to the managers and engineers. They will either ditch "A" or refine "A". Then, more marketing research is done until they feel "A" is the ideal product for the market.

What's left hanging is "A" is a product ready to ship. So, obviously, our opinion of "A" means crap. The vendor himself already stated, "Anyways, we will be releasing a entry level product that will retail for $250 for a 10 foot pair."

This whole thread is a sham. I usually am totally against deleting threads. But, in this case, I shall make an exception.

As a marketer, it is individuals like these that bring my trade a bad name.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 08:12 am »

You can't give an opinion on the worth of a product unless it has been tried and tested. Thats why many companies , in all different fields , run demos. To say A is better than B , you have to test it to find out. But in audio, people have their own preferences. Back to Mike's beginning question, there's always room for a new product , but is there shelf space for it ? I'm sure there is , but it is a crowdwd field , and not an easy row to hoe ! IMHO

viggen · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 08:47 am »

Wolfy, demos are given in introduction or post introduction stages of the product cycle. And, it might be semantics, but you usually can form a decision rather than only an opinion after a demo.

Opinions are gathered during product concept stages. The queries soliciting the opinion are stated in hypothetical terms such as "We are thinking of releasing a 10 foot pair that retails for $250. It would be 99.999% pure Silver coated Oxygen free Copper with Teflon dielectric. 6-18Ga conductors per run, with passive Silver braid shielding and Teflon outer jacket. Connectors would be Silver over Copper with a Gold outer plating with choice of nanners or spades... We would like to get a feel for the demand, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated !! "

The opinions solicited are then used to help determine future decisions on whether the hypothetical product will be produced or not. This is usually followed by a virage of persona questions such as your age, income etc.. Demographic is destiny...

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 10:20 am »

Quote from: VeraStarr

First off, I do know what I am talking about, or the business would not grow as it has. The question about everybody using Teflon was sarcastic. If it was crap, nobody would use it !!, especially the big names.

Bose is a vey big name, still uses paper cones and the business keeps growing. "Better sound through research." Teflon is used because it is practical when used with silver cabling. THis is good from a materials approach, but musically is a different ball game.

Quote from: VeraStarr

I am happy for you that you like someone else's design. If you know so much about audio, why did you not respond to my question about what the market needs ? Surely all of us would like you to impart some of your profound knowledge. Again, a stab about granite..I guess EgglestonWorks knows nothing either...

Again, the market does not need anything. All bases are pretty much covered w/ the DIY approach. Anyone can get military grade silver plated copper, Teflon insulated copper in 24 to 37 strand configuration. The one I use is 37 strand, 12 ga high purity and costs 65 cents a foot. Cryo treatment is around $10 a pound. This plain 65 cents/ft cable has outperformed in friends' systems Kimber 8TC, XLO, Cardas in the +/- $1000 range. In Lak's system (and mine) the cryo'ed was so close to Pure Note Epsilon it was not funny. Are these "big names"?

Beyond that, then we go into high quality copper/Teflon (like Jena labs) and the exotics/specialty cables.

satfrat · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 10:57 am »

PsychicAnimal, I have deleted my posts and retract/regret what I said. That's all I have to say about it. Regards, Robin

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 07:16 pm »

When a manufacturer asks for feedback it should be uncensored, honest and to the point. I don't believe the Psychic-One crossed over the line in his initial response.

From then on the verbage escalated on both sides.
If it's too hot in the kitchen............................
Paul G

audiojerry · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:12 pm »

wow, somehow I missed all the excitement

psychic wrote:

Quote

I do think you suffer from the "Have to be nice" syndrome that's so pervasive (and dangerous) in USA.

ok bud, I'm getting out my teflon coated numbchucks - look out

And when I'm through with you, I'm sending Chuck J. to finish you off

audiojerry · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Dec 2003, 09:13 pm »

wow, somehow I missed all the excitement

psychic wrote:

Quote

I do think you suffer from the "Have to be nice" syndrome that's so pervasive (and dangerous) in USA.

ok bud, I'm getting out my teflon coated numbchucks - look out

And when I'm through with you, I'm sending Chuck J. to finish you off

VeraStarr · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:03 am »

Wow, what a high strung group!! Viggen calls me a "coward not an innovator"..too funny. I guess people get bold sitting in the comfort of thier own home...
I never claimed to innovate. I simply asked about an entry level product !!! We have been making silver/teflon for over 2 years now, and we like it. I was simply asking about an entry level product. We are not introducing teflon/silver to the market, we are knocking the price down.
If we do Psychic animals math .65c per foot times 6 conductors is $3.90 per foot bulk cable cost without a silver braid shield and outer Teflon jacket. Second comparison is to the DIY market, which is comparing apples to oranges..we do not sell DIY supplies. Maybe that might have been a good suggestion from Psychic animal..heck, we'll sell our bulk 6 conductor for $3.50 per foot to any of you DIY'ers. I still don't get the grade school name calling yet.
Thanks Robert (Ridge Street) for your words of encouragement, I'm sure we will cross paths at CES, HES or CEDIA.

VeraStarr · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:03 am »

Please delete system error

VeraStarr · « **Reply #34 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:03 am »

Please delete

VeraStarr · « **Reply #35 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:04 am »

Please delete

VeraStarr · « **Reply #36 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:04 am »

Please delete

VeraStarr · « **Reply #37 on:** 18 Dec 2003, 01:04 am »

Please delete

ekovalsky · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 02:04 am »

Holy smokes, this thread was more brutal than the Cable Asylum !

Why slam a manufacturer for introducing a potentially overachieving bargain product?

I'm ignorant about the good and bad of teflon with silver, but I don't think anyone should discount Mike's cables without hearing them. A friend of mine with a very competent system found the more expensive VeraStarr cables to be superior to well known brands.

As far as natural dielectrics, how about hemp fiber

VeraStarr · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 Dec 2003, 03:24 am »

Jah!, Ras-Tafari....