Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?

Chinaski · « **on:** 11 Apr 2009, 05:29 pm »

I want to start building my "next level" system (and before my job is offshored!). First item on the agenda? 3 new speakers. I'm the kind of person who buys and holds -- I don't know how I do it, but I can ignore my inner upgrade-itis bug for 7 years or longer. That being said, I'm incredibly lured by STs and now these HT2-TLs. I find that I've gotten away from enjoying fine recordings in my comfy chair, so I purposely bought speakers in the past that were a passing grade only in this regard. Now I want to invest in something that begs my attention, holds it, and keeps me from my personal responsibilities, maybe even makes me a better procrastinator!

Need recommendation for new L-C-R speakers, near(ish) $2,500 for all 3. In a 5000 cu. ft room, 2 story ceilings, very open. 60% HT/40% music today with a desire to be pulled into embibing upon large doses of comfy chair musical splendor. Will use nice sub on hand for 2.1 channel listening (when I can make time) for I enjoy Coltrane and Flaming Lips (e.g, check out the low end on "A Spoonful Weighs a Ton"). Music emphasis is on alt rock, indie rock, electronica.

Not concerned with these pairing well with the electronics I now have (Yam rxv3200 6x130w) -- they'll be upgraded next, thinking Arcam, NAD but I digress. Class D or heavy iron coming soon. Would like recommendations for amps to pair with Salks, too (nice 3-channel to start?).

I've already demo'd MA GS20s, RS6s, and GS10s plus Totem Sttaf (I was drawn to the dealer to hear the RS6s and listened to the others because I could though a bit pricey). My ears found the RS6s a bit too forward for my taste and a bit bright (NAD electronics used). None of these suffice for my ears from a purely 2 channel experience on all the music I demo'd (at loud (~90dB) but not deafening levels) (on Elbow's The Loneliness of a Tower Crane Driver, the voice at times was uncomfortable to follow). So just from a tone perspective I'm looking for something with much smoother, non-fatiguing highs, and a mid-range that will excel at reproducing a throaty growling tenor sax sound, male vocals, and female vocals. Other traits desired? Deep 3-D soundstage, disappearing speakers (thought the Totems were good at this).

Thanks for demo suggestions. Very few local dealers with interesting choices, so ID is quite desirable.

ArthurDent · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 06:06 pm »

'C' -

For your stated budget the original ST QWTs + a Song Center meet the bill. For the size of room, hopefully someone with a comparable space can speak. The ST RTs would run approx $1400 more, and the HT2 TLs I believe would be almost double the budget with a center.

My situation is only about half your ft3, and listening experience pretty limited. Love the Song Towers, and Center, & Surround Is. Clean, clear mids & highs, tight, responsive bass Great imaging, and soundstage in my application. Only question in my mind would be the size of your room.

As for an amp, don't think there's anyway you could go wrong with an AVA Insight 240/3. That would be regardless of speaker choice. I have an OmegaStar 240/3 I use to drive the C-L/R rear on the HT. The 2 channel is an separate, adjacent system, combined for the Fronts in HT.

You should get some good input here, and might check the 'Audition' thread to see if there's someone in your neck of the woods that can give you a listen. Good Luck.

fishinbob · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 06:24 pm »

Quote from: ArthurDent on 11 Apr 2009, 06:06 pm

The ST RTs would run approx $1400 more,

$700.00 xtra I believe.

Nuance · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 07:47 pm »

^ Correct, but he may have been taking into account another $700 for the center channel, if that is indeed what the added costs would be for a LCY ribbon center.

Chinaski,

Where do you live? If there are any local owners I am sure they'd love to have you over for an audition.

Your name has "china" in it, so if you do live there you're probably out of luck.

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 09:35 pm »

Agree with ArthurDent. HT2 is twice the budget, but for the music you like and HT, STs with a dome tweeter is the best choice. I have heard Monitor Audio RS6 with an Onkyo receiver and was not impressed at all. ST are superior to any LS in the $3k range that I have heard. I have already read that Totem Staff "disappear" and STs do not disappear completely, but I think it is also a matter of their location in the room. Mine is 22x16 and 17' high. If I put them 30" from the front wall, they disappear all right.
I have NAD 340 in the secondary system, but it is not a match for STs. Insight 240/3 channel is what I would buy. Good luck with your search!

floresjc · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 09:51 pm »

Chinaski -

I think with the budget you have outlined, you are pretty much tied to the SongTower line up if you go with Salk. The good news is, for your money, there's probably nothing better on Earth. I just recently demoed the dome tweeter SongTower, along with the HT2 (non TL), HT3, and HT4. Given the company, the ST did very well, and I would not hesitate to buy at that price level. Now all you need to do is pick a veneer.

charmerci · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 06:03 am »

Quote from: Chinaski on 11 Apr 2009, 05:29 pm

My ears found the RS6s a bit too forward for my taste and a bit bright (NAD electronics used).

The "brightness" was the NAD. If you are going to audition (or get) electronics at that price level, at least use Cambridge.

Gord_Toronto · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:14 pm »

"C"

My room is also very large, though with only an 8 foot ceiling and the ST-RT's are splendid. Very neutral Low to High.

Recommend not looking into amplification at all until you have chosen your speakers. 100 WPC is fine for ST's

Your welcome to audition mine near TO

tvyankee · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:24 pm »

hello

if i were you i would go and try and demo some vandy 3a sigs and then get a pair for under $2000.00. these speakers for this price are very hard to beat. then get a used vcc5sig for the center or a 2c"s sig mk2 for the center. these speakers will fill your room no problem and you will love the sound.

good luck.

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:56 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 11 Apr 2009, 09:51 pm

Chinaski -

I think with the budget you have outlined, you are pretty much tied to the SongTower line up if you go with Salk. The good news is, for your money, there's probably nothing better on Earth. I just recently demoed the dome tweeter SongTower, along with the HT2 (non TL), HT3, and HT4. Given the company, the ST did very well, and I would not hesitate to buy at that price level. Now all you need to do is pick a veneer.

Nothing better on Earth???

The ST's are very good, but let's not get carried away. Statements like that will cause others to question the less hyped comments.

George

floresjc · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 04:27 pm »

Well count me in the hyped corner. I feel that there is nothing better to be had at 1700 or 1800 dollars. If others do not feel the same, they are just as free as me to post their opinion here. What others think or make of those sets of opinions is not my concern. They are not better than HT3's, they aren't better than HT2's, but at their price level, they are the best I have heard. Of course, the used market changes the value proposition somewhat, as you can get a higher priced speaker for less than new, and that changes the dynamic.

Zero · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 05:53 pm »

Chinaski,

It sounds like you had a pretty crappy demo of the Sttaf. That's part of the problem with Totem. Though it doesn't take much to get 'good' sound out of them, you'll need to know exactly how to set up each model in order to get ;great' sound. Sadly, most dealers I've happened across thus far haven't got a clue. Aside from the forward highs, most of what you describe does not flow in line with that speakers general performance. That said, it doesn't really matter as nothing from Totem (short of the more expensive Forest, Mani-2 Signature, and Wind) would work in your large room or fill your SPL demands anyway.

Aside from the whole 'disappearing act', the SongTower's look like they'd be a great fit for your situation. Their treble is smooth, the midrange is precise and wide open (a vocal lovers dream), and is quite linear across the board. Best of all, they can work in a big space and work on a huge variety of components. Though I do not agree with floresjc about them being the ultimate speaker for the money, they are one of the easiest to recommend due to their easy-going character and versatility. I say, give it a shot. Thus far, in all the time the SongTowers have been out, I haven't read a post from any dissatisfied customer. That should be saying enough as it is.

Chinaski · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 07:02 pm »

Great replies all, thanks. I'm in Virginia Beach, so give me a shout if I can audition ST's nearby. BTW Chinaski is a Bukowski alter-ego.

Zero · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 07:24 pm »

Damn man, if you made this post 3 months ago, I coulda let you compare the SongTowers to a number of other speakers. I'm up in northern Newport News (by Williamsburg)

Chinaski · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 09:38 pm »

I've returned to the land of aural improvement. I posted a request for Salk guidance 2 years ago and life is good again so the hunt is back on. Now I want to compare some speakers.

I kinda buy into the Songtowers being, arguably, the best under $2000/pair speakers so I'm testing the waters before I can arrange an in-home demo of Salks. At this point I'm sure anything by a reputable maker, at $1000 a pair and up, will outdo what I had in home previously so I needed to up my reference point, and get my ears ready.

I was going to try out some Fritz Carbon 7s but put them on hold for now to first pick up a friend's recommendation: the Martin Logan ElectroMotions. According to the owner's manual they want a 72 hour (@ 90dB!) break-in before you begin to critically listen to them -- they basically tell you don't bother to position them well initially, do it after you get 72 hours in). Holy crap! I seldom listen to my tunes that loud! But I have been these past few days, well, I'm upstairs in the loft mostly. The sound is quite, shall we just say, domicile-filling.

Now I expect to have these "broken in" in another week and then I'd be ecstatic to bring these to a Salk owner's home to do some A/B'ing. I'm thinking of getting the Aperion VGTs in home, too. Has anyone compared electrostatics with Salks side by side before? In a spontaneous move I merely walked in to my local best Buy and, lo and behold, they had a single pair of the EMs, and I took them home. Gotta start the auditioning and stop the forum scouring at some point!

Early impressions? Well produced recordings are really nice. The low end punches much more, and seemingly extends lower, than I thought it would (rated down to 42Hz). And, of course, I've spent a couple hours critically listening still (how else will I know the sound improved?). These, so far, are not kind to poor-to-average recordings, but we'll give those sh*tty CDs a spin after 72 hours!

The speakers are quite placement sensitive, but with a flashlight in hand you can be 90% there in mere moments. I had no idea just how excellent electrostatics can be....

Again, I'm in the 23451 zip, and I know there are a couple Salkians (?) within 1-3 hours from me. Got some time?

Kinger · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 10:36 pm »

Definitely give the Carbon 7's an audition if you can. I'm a SongTower/Ribbon Tweeter owner and love them, but I thought the Carbon 7's sounded fantastic when I heard them at AKFest a year ago and if I had to replace my ST's with something outside of the Salk lineup these would probably get the nod.

While I think the ST's are a fantastic speaker for the price, their sound is certainly going to be different from an electrostat or a bass reflex design like the C7's. A lot will depend on what type of "sound" you are after. Good luck in your search!

coke · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 11:03 pm »

Is your budget the same as before? Do you have additional money for sub(s). I'd personally want subs if I had to trade my HT2-TLs for a pair of Songtowers. Songtowers sound amazing, but they just don't have enough low frequency impact for me without subs. Not really an issue at low to medium listening levels or in smaller rooms though.

How many people will typically listen to your system when used for HT? If you're normally the only person, Salk speakers produce a great center image, and I'd suggest spending more on 2 speakers and skipping the center.

One of the main differences you'll notice when listening to Salks, is the sound of the bass. They play loud and low, but don't have the boomy or overly punchy characteristics of bass reflex type speakers.

The mids and highs, similar to the bass, don't really have any characteristic or colored sound. It's like the speakers get out of the way and let the music through, if that makes any sense.

rollo · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 12:32 am »

For the surround you may consider in wall speakers to handle that. Music Direct is almost giving them away. Better than one may think. They work really well. Which will allow you to spend more on the main speakers. Salk's top of the line that is.

charles

Nuance · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 12:23 pm »

You'll likely find that the Salk's provide a larger sweet spot when compared to the electrostats, not to mention far better off-axis frequency response. The latter are very difficult to set up correctly IMO. Oh, and don't buy into the 72-hour break-in nonsense. It's more likely your ears will adjust to the sound of the speakers rather than the sound characteristics of them changing much.

To my ears the Salk SongTower's with ribbons are the best speaker under $4000, but YMMV. I hope you can find an owner to allow an audition!

Saturn94 · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 02:16 pm »

I'm not too far from you, and while I don't have SongTowers, I do have HT2-TLs that perhaps could give you an idea of the "Salk sound". I also have a pair of vintage ADS L1290's (I bought them new in 1986) you might be interested in hearing as well. You can PM me if you're interested.

Also, you might contact Dennis Murphy (he's in the DC area). He has a setup that would allow you to instantly switch between pairs of speaker so you can instantly compare their sound. He will also have a room at the Capital Audiofest in Rockville MD (July 8-10) showing Salks and speakers of his own design.

http://www.capitalaudiofest.com/

Good luck in your search.