Woodworking 101

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corndog71

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Woodworking 101
« on: 9 Apr 2009, 07:47 pm »
Ok, my woodworking skills came from a basic class back in high school.  Since then my attempts at woodworking were terrible.  Mostly because I was broke, cheap, and all too willing to cut corners.

I'm older and dare I say, wiser now.  I'm finally ready to face my woodworking fears and buy some real tools that will help me build some of these fantastic speakers.  I can't go too crazy because I live in a small apartment with little room for tons of gear.  At the very least I figure I need a miter saw, a router with both fixed and plunge-type frames as well as the proper bits for rounding corners, etc.  I probably also need a set of calipers and a better t-square.  Oh and clamps.  Probably need a bunch of those.

Can you guys think of anything else I might need?

Thanks

TomS

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #1 on: 9 Apr 2009, 08:18 pm »
If you have the bucks, and need to cut a lot of sheet goods for speakers, not much space, take a look at one of these like the TS55... 
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/plunge-cut-circular-saws
Very pricey, but an awesome saw if you don't want to screw around with setting up and storing a table saw and adjusting it all the time.

Their joiner is really cool too, much better than bisquit joiners, but hideously expensive...

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/domino-joining-system

And LOTS of good clamps...

« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2009, 01:28 am by TomS »

Bioman

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #2 on: 9 Apr 2009, 08:40 pm »
The list wont stop there, trust me.  I added up my woodworking equipment inventory the other day for insurance purposes and it was around the cost of a Lexus. :o

At the least a set of Wood Chisels (a recent issue of Fine woodworking rated what was and was not good),a block plane such as a Record low angle and a good S.S. ruler.  I could not do anything accurate without these tools.  aa



PDR

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #3 on: 9 Apr 2009, 11:24 pm »
Corndog I would say it all depends on what type of cabinet you want to build.
In the last year Ive have built 2 different arrays....1 x60" pair and 1 x66" pair, two -dual 12" subs
a center channel...weighs in a about 40lbs...and a set of Dannys new OBs

Heres my list of tools:
slide arm mitre saw
skil saw
jig saw
orbital sander
router....bits as required
2' square
cordless drill
4x 18" clamps & 4x 30" clamps
straight steel ruler

If you keep your designs simple.....and stick to a basic box...or a easy build like the new OBs
you should be able to come up with a good looking product. A big consideration is the type of
finish....I find the front baffle the most challenging, so it gets painted.
Veneers are my biggest problems.....but I think I have that sorted now.

The biggest tip I can give you is to get your large sheets cut from the lumber yard that you buy your
stock from.....they will usually cut for cheap or no charge at all. Keep the 8' lengths and cut with your mitre saw
the various sizes you need. They have a better table saw than I'll ever own.

Good luck.....If I can do it with limited resources you can too.

Perry

mgalusha

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #4 on: 9 Apr 2009, 11:54 pm »
A 50" clamp on guide is a great thing with a circular saw if you actually want to cut a straight line.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16448

As others mentioned, clamps. If you think you bought enough, double it and you might be close. Hard to have too many and avoid the really cheap ones. IMO they are a waste of money.

Christof

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #5 on: 10 Apr 2009, 12:51 am »
Ok, my woodworking skills came from a basic class back in high school.  Since then my attempts at woodworking were terrible.  Mostly because I was broke, cheap, and all too willing to cut corners.

I'm older and dare I say, wiser now.  I'm finally ready to face my woodworking fears and buy some real tools that will help me build some of these fantastic speakers.  I can't go too crazy because I live in a small apartment with little room for tons of gear.  At the very least I figure I need a miter saw, a router with both fixed and plunge-type frames as well as the proper bits for rounding corners, etc.  I probably also need a set of calipers and a better t-square.  Oh and clamps.  Probably need a bunch of those.

Can you guys think of anything else I might need?

Thanks

Call me crazy but considering your space constraints I think you would be well set with the following power tools:

Festool MFT table
Festool TS55 (circ saw and 55" guide rail)....with the MFT table it will function as a table saw and miter saw without taking up space
Any plunge router with a vacuum adapter (don't need a fixed base)....get one used off craigslist
A good book about routers, it's amazing how much you can do with such a simple inexpensive device....Router Magic
Circle jig...make your own or Parts Express
Jigsaw...again find one used maybe even a Bosch
Chisels...you will not find a better chisel set for less than Narex but your really only need one or two (a big one...3/4" & a small one...3/8" or 1/4")
 
Depending on where you live you should be able to buy your panels veneered, this will save you space, time and $$$

EDITI just saw that you are from Chicago, check out Owl Hardwoods...they have a few locations in the city.  I just picked up a couple sheets of Walnut veneer core from them a couple days ago for speakers....

I'm with Bioman, my shop is worth more than my home but if I ask myself what tools do I really need, at minimum, to break out a decent pair of cabinets?  The answer is above.  You can always turn around and sell Festool products for 80% of what you paid or more.  Try doing that with a cheapie table saw/miter saw after you get so pissed at it because you can't get a straight cut to save your life  :wink:

Check this site: www.auctionzip.com, enter your zip and search for "woodworking"  you may find that there is a cabinet shop going out of business 10 miles from your home with tools selling pennies on the dollar....and all you will have to do is spend the day at an auction. 

cg.

EARGASM

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #6 on: 11 Apr 2009, 12:01 am »
Removed by member.
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2009, 03:51 pm by EARGASM »

Bioman

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #7 on: 11 Apr 2009, 02:05 pm »
Agree with all posters as regards Festool products.  There expensive, but less grief in the long run.  So far none have disappointed.  I have not used the Festool circular saw as I have a panel saw, but I have not heard anything but good comments from owners so far.  The best feature is the chip breaker, when your working with plywood the absence of this feature complicates getting a good clean cut that wont damage veneers.  Make sure you get a good rail guide system such as Festool or several others sell as this essentially gives you a panel saw in a box.  Good luck. :icon_lol:

corndog71

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #8 on: 11 Apr 2009, 02:42 pm »

Or you could just find a guy with a new $200K CNC to do it for you.  8)

I was really close to doing that.  But then that's only "partially" building speakers.  I've been intimidated with doing the cutting of wood myself but I'm starting to overcome that.

I really want to do it myself!

But I'll keep you in mind as a back-up. :wink:

TomW16

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #9 on: 11 Apr 2009, 02:44 pm »
I haven't tried any of the Festool stuff as I have room for a table saw but Festool has a good reputation for accurate cuts and wouldn't take up too much room.  The following is what I would use for speaker building:

  • Circular saw with guide to cut panels.  It was mentioned previously but if you have your design finalized, you can ask the big box stores to have the wood cut to your dimensions at a nominal charge (~$1.00 per cut).

  • Jig saw to cut any non straight cuts.  I second the Bosch recommendation that was mentioned previously.

  • Router and circle jig to cut out the driver holes.

  • Drill for installing binding posts.

  • Palm sander.

  • Lots of clamps.  (I have used screws in a subwoofer before to good effect when I didn't have enough large clamps and it worked well since the veneer didn't show where the screws were.  I have also used a brad nailer to do the same thing but on a high gloss paint job, I can see where the brads were shot.  Nobody else notices but I do.   :evil:

Have fun.

Tom

Mariusz

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #10 on: 11 Apr 2009, 02:55 pm »
Festool system, lots of clamps.

EARGASM

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #11 on: 11 Apr 2009, 03:04 pm »
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« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2009, 03:50 pm by EARGASM »

Christof

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #12 on: 11 Apr 2009, 07:36 pm »
Really though, what's your budget? I can't speak for anyone else, but I have spent well over $200K on tools & machines in the last two weeks... :cry:


....and you should see what the guy spends on coffee :o

 :wink: cg.

BrianH

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #13 on: 12 Apr 2009, 06:22 pm »
My opinion ...

As much fun as all the equipment is, it shouldn't be a one time investment, thats just a waste imo. There is always a Macgyver around but most of us benefit tremendously from having good equipment to use so we are not fighting the equipment at the same time we are doing a project. Quality power tools tend to be expensive. You didn't come across like a person inclined to use 18th century hand tools just because it can be done that way. :)

A possible option ... see if a friend with a decent wood shop would help you build them in their shop. Most shops will have a good table saw, router and some other power tools already.

Or if you are not going to get into woodworking as a hobby, just get a flat pack made, a soldering iron, and a few pipe clamps.  Some of the folks here might make you a flat pack using their many 1,000's of dollars worth of precision equipment for a really super looking job. Or know where to get it done. Or alternatively just get the front baffles alone premade to reduce shipping costs. Some  premake jigs as well. Some flat packs are also made with alignment aids so they glue together perfect every time.

After you get a flat pack or the equivilent made, however you do it, then ...

Pipe clamps are really cheap, put a block of scrap wood and maybe a piece of wax paper against the piece you are Elmer/yellow glueing, take your time and don't try to do very much at one time with glue. Even glueing well takes a bit of practice. If you have a lot of moisture around use a different glue than elmers/yellow.

Veneering also isn't technically difficult to do, but requires practice. One method you can look up on the web is the iron on type, basically no equipment other than a clothes iron is needed and a lot of time and patience. http://www.joewoodworker.com/  look there for some basic info on veneering.

Or just take it to an auto shop or cabinet shop and have them spray it however you want. Many have had success with canned spray paint/truck bed liner as well, it all depends what  you are comfortable doing and what you want it to look like at the end.

For one time projects you will get better professional looking results when experts help with the hard parts and it could be very little cost difference over buying a lot of equipment for one time.

You will still need skills and patience for whatever level project you take on. I really suggest starting with something you are sure you can do well, that will probably surprise you when you do it until it all comes back through practice. Nothing is ever as easy as it looks or sounds. But it still can be fun, especially when the result is something that looks as good as it sounds.

Brian

Watson

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #14 on: 12 Apr 2009, 08:05 pm »
I'm older and dare I say, wiser now.  I'm finally ready to face my woodworking fears and buy some real tools that will help me build some of these fantastic speakers.  I can't go too crazy because I live in a small apartment with little room for tons of gear.  At the very least I figure I need a miter saw, a router with both fixed and plunge-type frames as well as the proper bits for rounding corners, etc.  I probably also need a set of calipers and a better t-square.  Oh and clamps.  Probably need a bunch of those.

If you live in a small apartment and plan to be routing MDF, make sure you've got a balcony. If you do it indoors you'll never get rid of all the dust.

Hank

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #15 on: 12 Apr 2009, 11:51 pm »
Buy flat packs, assemble them and crossovers and apply finish, then install drivers.  Does the result give you a great deal of satisfaction?  If so, don't spend a small fortune on power tools.

corndog71

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Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #16 on: 13 Apr 2009, 03:23 am »
Thankfully, I have an open back porch I can work on. 

I really appreciate all of the advice from you guys.  I've looked up all of these recommended tools and dang they are expensive.  The Festool stuff is especially fascinating but even more expensive! :o

For my first project I guess I should focus on assembling a flat pack. 

I REALLY want some OB bass but I have to be realistic about it.  In my current living arrangement I just don't have the space for it.  It looks like I'm going to have to go sealed servo sub.

Just gotta wait for my tax return. aa

2bigears

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #17 on: 13 Apr 2009, 04:10 am »
 :D  love to buy those Festool skilsaw and mitre saw.anyone know the price on those....nice stuff.... :D

Mariusz

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #18 on: 13 Apr 2009, 04:28 am »
price list and options
Both about $1500-$1600, more if you add the vacuum system.

2bigears

Re: Woodworking 101
« Reply #19 on: 13 Apr 2009, 04:44 am »
 :D  thks,could not find the prices.500 bucks for a skilsaw and 1500 for the mitre box.i never thought i would ever see a 500 dollar guide rail ...... holy---- :D