Narrowing preamp search

Carlman · « **on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:01 pm »

OK... I'm ready to bite the bullet and buy the preamp I want. My absolute top-end of my budget at ~700 USD shipped.

There are a couple of choices in this range that are very appealing... such as the Mapeltree designs Ultra 4SE and the IRD Purist.

I had an Audible Illusions 2d that is gone now. It is a great pre but, I was tired of replacing tubes every few months.... the ringing was excessive in any tube I used. Also, it was a noisy component.

I'd like something quiet, transparent and that images very well. I'd really like a phono section but I only listen to records about 20% of the time. So, it isn't something I'm truly 'audiophile' obsessive about...

I have an excellent ear for sounds. I like to hear small nuances and solid imaging. I like the room to be recreated well.

I'm connecting this pre to an AKSA 100 amp, with a ~43k input impedance. Both of the ones I'm looking at would match fine.

I will be using revealing monitors and a sub. (Don't know which ones yet but, I'll be reviewing Diluceo's)

I have Revel F30's now and love them but, they're too big. Also, I think the highs are a bit fatiguing at times.

So, the bottom lines on the 2 pre's above...

Mapletree: has phono input, maybe warm/coloring
IRD: no phono, may be too clinical/sterile?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions based on this situation.

Thanks,
Carl

BikeWNC · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:11 pm »

Hey Carl,

I like tubes and I especially like what they do in a preamp when matched with a ss amp. I have read that the AI preamps are hard on tubes. I have not owned one, but it seems like that was your experience. Why not try the demo Dodd Audio is offering? It doesn't have a phono section though. At least you get to try before you buy and I think the price is in your range.

Andy

bubba966 · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:12 pm »

Have you looked into any of the Dodd pre amps?

Danny had one at VSAC, but that was the top line model if I remember right. And I think they start at about $500.

bubba966 · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:14 pm »

Hmm, looks like Andy & I were having the same thought at the same time...

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:16 pm »

I talked to Gary (Dodd) today. His basic pre is 450. After that, it's out of my range. It can't be fitted with a phono pre because of its size. However, even with a used/cheap phono stage, I could keep it around 700. I like tubes as well but, I haven't heard a solid state pre in a long time.

I've requested to be on the demo list for the Purist but, I don't know when I'll get it.

I'll ask Gary about the demo...

I need to buy somthing soon... I'd hate for Andy to show up with speakers to audition and me not have a pre... yikes!

BikeWNC · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:17 pm »

Bubba - you must be reading my mail!

BikeWNC · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:25 pm »

Carl,

If I have to also tote my SL pre down there it's going to cost you!

Andy

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:32 pm »

Carlman,

You appear to be in 'Audio Hell'...speakers too big (AND fatiguing to boot), tired of rolling tubes and looking for new preamp.

Why, you could be the head of welcoming committee in Audio Hell with this story.

I, too, got outta' tube pre (Dynaco PAS-4) recently. I damped the hell out of the tubes (Herbie's and mortite top hat), put them on great sticky feet (LAT International feet) and they definitely sounded better, but it never sounded like what I hear to be live music. I rolled those babies around and bought a nice little stash of NOS and Sovtek 6922's (line) and 12AX7's (Phono) before I was done. It was a hassle...and it didn't sound like the real deal to me. It was probably on par with your non-lamented 2D in sonics...I am sure there is better, so I'm not bashing tubes (please note tube afficianados!), but it was hell for me. For many, this pre probably has a well earned a lovefest between owner and component for the minimal money it cost - not me.

I missed the dynamics, too, and the rolled highs bothered me. I did love that luxurious midrange tho. Trade-offs.

I bought the IRD Purist and am really pleased. It is very quiet, dynamic and, lo and behold, it sounds like music in here. Very little midrange 'magic' is missed - amazingly. My last SS pre, (Blackgated) Superphon Revelation Dual Mono, was thrilling, but fatiguing on my Vandersteens (metal tweeter). My Dad's got it...but he has 5-10% hearing loss from Korean War, so he's thrilled!!! Ha.

It's got 4 inputs, so if the urge strikes me to get back into vinyl, I'll buy an outboard phono pre. There are so many decent ones for so little now...I just looked at the KAB Acoustics $149.00 model, seems well done. Right now, CD sounds great to me on the Purist, so I'm not in a rush.

It'a very revealling component however - be forewarned, with all that good and bad that comes with that. I just de-oxidized 70% of my connections this morning...and I never remember, with any pre I've owned, that mattering that much before. I am sure as components are changed, I'll have a similarly larger effect than previously. It's keenly priced at $665.00 delv'd, yet is every bit up to task of the money many of us have in our gear. In fact, it may be better than we care to know. The thing is it does less than most pre's do (you'll know if you get one what that means), so the imaging, soundstaging and the like that you want is more dependent on other components in your chain. It ain't no band-aid for shitty gear, I assure you. For lack of anything else pithy to say about it, I'd say 'neutral' is about right.

That's my $.02 on The Purist LLC.

doug s. · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:33 pm »

carl, if ya can live w/the lack of features of the $450 dodd pre, then i'd strongly recommend this, as it supposedly is a simplified iteration of the melos ma333, a pre that retailed for between $4k-4.6k, depending on features, & is outstanding, imo...

doug s.

vpolineni · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 08:35 pm »

the ird purist has been well reviewed here which i'm sure you already know.. why don't you get on the in-home audition list and see if it works well for you?

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 09:37 pm »

Well here's the deal.. I totally agree with the chair guy in a logical, common sense type way.

It's a toss-up either way on a demo. If I get one and like the other better when I demo it, I'd end up selling and buying... so, going with the cheaper option makes the most sense at this juncture.

Both the Dodd and the Purist are extremely well reviewed and I will get to see why. That's exciting to me.

I'm buying the Dodd and I'll compare it to the Purist when I get it. If the Purist beats it, the Dodd will be for sale.

Thanks for the tip on the cheap phono-stage pre. I will open a new topic for that....

Thanks for the insight, everyone.

-Carl

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 10:52 pm »

Good luck, bro. May ye' be banished from Audio Hell forever with either choice!!!

nature boy · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 11:43 pm »

Carlman,

Best of luck with the Purist and Dodd comparisons. If neither floats your boat, I suggest you give a listen to the Eastern Electric Minimax. Paired with my ss amp and Vandersteen 2CE signatures, the music is very real.

There have been a few used units showing up on AudioGon lately, maybe a little north of $750. It only has three inputs and is a linestage. With some recent NOS tube rolling suggestions from Nathan Loyer at Audio Revelations/Eighth Nerve I am in pure sonic heaven.

Now for a phono stage, so I can get back to some vinyl.

NB

gonefishin · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2003, 11:47 pm »

Carlman...my advice is that you get Bent!

With a NOH preamp from Bent Audio that is

Rocket · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Dec 2003, 01:51 am »

hi carl,

glad to hear that you've picked up a preamp. from my memory of the dodd preamp it was pretty cool looking.

i also like your plan to listen to the ird preamp as well and compare it to the dodd. your audilbe illusions preamp must have had a design fault if it was going thru that many tubes.

i may be criticised but i have an n.e.w. p3 tube preamp ($1500us rrp) which i upgraded and put a remote volume kit in. it works quite well. the tubes are 4 years old and seem to be going well.

i know this is off topic but how often should one replace the tubes in a preamp?

best wishes

rod

ps please keep us up to date on your experiences. you guys are so lucky getting to demo all the neat products in the us. i basically buy without getting to demo anything as i live so far away.

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Dec 2003, 02:48 am »

I checked out Bent's stuff. Very cool. Very expensive, though and a complete unknown to me. I have no experience with passive pre's other than homemade ones that aren't great. I don't know anyone that's used a Bent.

I agree the Eastern Electric Minimax would be a good choice but, I wasn't sure where to find them or how much they cost.... or a lot of things. I know one person who has heard they are very good but, I don't know anyone with 'hands-on' experience.

If the Dodd bests the AI in absolute musicality, I'll be very happy. By that I mean, if its overall sonic signature gets the music right, this decision will have been for the better. The AI is the best pre for the money I've ever heard. But, my experience in preamps is somewhat limited. In doing this excersize, I'll at least learn something... which is part of my goal with this hobby.

As to replacing tubes, I agree something must have been wrong. I should have sent it to AI to check it out but, I didn't because of all the mods done by Chimera. Chimera no longer does mods so, I didn't want to send it to them either... but, I should've.

In any case, I don't think line-level tubes like the 6922's should need to be replaced but once a year with a lot of use... or even less, like once every other year. With light use, 3-5 years. Maybe I was having bad luck but, the Amperex Orange Globes I bought from Chimera lasted about 6 months tops before becoming unbearable with ringing.

I'm very happy that I had a net zero balance between selling my old preamp and the new one. Talking to Gary at Dodd helped ease my mind about this decision as well. At least now if something goes wrong, I have a long time to get it fixed... and I know where to go and who to call. I hope his business keeps growing. He offers a lifetime warranty which is quite nice. The demo for the Dodd has quite a wait: ~7 weeks. (13 people doing 1 week demo's with 2 units)

Oh, I'm also looking forward to having ONE volume knob. That'll be nice.

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Dec 2003, 02:57 am »

Quote from: Carlman

I checked out Bent's stuff. Very cool. Very expensive, though and a complete unknown to me. I have no experience with passive pre's other than homemade ones that aren't great. I don't know anyone that's used a Bent.
...

I use the Bent pre and very much like it.

It sounds like you have no pre-amp at all except for the attenuation.

If you need to have your sound colored in some way, this is not the pre for you. If you want no additions to the sonic signature, than this would be a very good choice, except of course it's more than your budget.

TKP did a nice review of the IRD, he also has a Bent.

Given your price range, if not having coloration is what you are going for, then the IRD might be right for you.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2882&highlight=purist

BikeWNC · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Dec 2003, 03:00 am »

Carl,

I can vouch for Gary and his dedication to making things right. You might want to try some Amperex Orange Globes in the pre when you get it. I look forward to hearing it in January.

Andy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Dec 2003, 07:13 am »

Carl, How do you think your new room will work out ? By the way, those Revel's do look nice !

Carlman · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Dec 2003, 04:54 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

Carl, How do you think your new room will work out ? By the way, those Revel's do look nice !

Only time will tell... the goal is to have a system that plays with liveliness and detail and keeps the intended 'musical presentation' intact. I want it to sound big and airy if that was the intent of the recording... or whatever the case may be per recording.

I hope to get convincing sounds but, also to get excellent imaging. Can that be done with a tiny room? I hope so and will try. If the Dodd can't do it, there's a few more ready in the background to fill the order. However, I think what I'm after will be more an effect of the speakers and not so much the pre. So, I'm in the speaker-searching mode now and will probably not put much thought into pre's again until I get the Dodd in my system... which won't be until late December.