[Mike19]

Hi Steve.

I am currently using a Belkin 2.0 Pure AV High Performance cable between my desk top PC and my Musiland MD10 DAC. It sounds pretty good to me. 

But, after reading some of the threads here I'm thinking upgrading the USB cable might improve the SQ.

I cannot afford the Ridge Street or the Axis. But, if I eat hot dogs and chips for a month  , I could afford a Polestar.  Do you think the $250 investment would be worth it?

Also, I am trying to save up to buy an Off-Ramp T III (w/ The Clock and The Battery). If I can swing that,

Mike M.

[Mike19]

As I was saying before I hit the wrong key  :

If I can get the Turbo 3, would the Belkin suffice or would I need a better USB cable anyways?

Mike M

[satfrat]

Need is a very individual word which only the individual can answer. Considering my own path, I had a Trends UD10.1 USB transport which turned out to be much improved audio quality than what i had been listening to thru my M-audio sound card even thou like you Mike I was very happy with the sound card for the couple of years I had been using it. I then got a Channel Island power supply for the Trends and that improved the audio from the Trends even more. I read about USB cables so I went from a Belkin to a Kimber,,,, nothing other an a waste of $50. I then went to demo the Locus Design Axis and it was like someone took wax out of my ears, I kid you not. I needed this cable. I then sold the Trends in a major component upgrade for the Empirical Off Ramp 3 w/superclock 4 which once again raised the bar in my system with a much more layered sound stage with more inner body. I then moved up the USB cable ladder and demoed the Locus Design Nucleus USB cable which is carbon based and which along with the Off Ramp 3 is giving me a crystaline  sound stage that is unrivalled for my system. Now I didn't need any more than my original sound card for me to really enjoy music but I can't even fathom trying to compare that sound card to what I know have. I also don't want to fathom the total cost of getting there either.

Guess what I'm saying is any upgrade will pay dividends, it's really up to you to hear for yourself if these dividends are worth the cost. There's no doubt in my mind that the Off-Ramp 3 will blow away you sound card and there's no doubt in my mind that the Polestar will do the same when replacing a Belkin. But you'd have to hear this for yourself, then judge if it's worth the financial cost for these audio gains. In an ideal situation, you'd be able to try before you buy in order to find this out for yourself. What's ideal in today's world anyways,,,, unless you're able to work with the manufacturer. aa

If I were asked today, did I need to buy the Off-Ramp 3, I'd say damn straight. Did I need to replace the Belkin USB cable with a Locus Design Axis cable, I'd say damn straight again. And if I were asked why after having a high quality Empirical Off-Ramp 3 with a high quality Axis cable that I felt the desire to upgraded the $550 Axis cable for a $1150 Nucleus cable, my answer would be because I needed to.

edit: btw Mike, your signature is words I live by,,, literally.

Cheers,
Robin

[audioengr]

Robin - I recently used a 5-foot Polestar with my own Off-Ramp 3 and I compared it to my Pace-Car 2, both driving the Overdrive DAC.  The Off-Ramp 3 into the S/PDIF input and the Pace-Car into the I2S input. 

For the first time, they were really close.  I would have to do a LOT of listening tests to tell the difference.

Lee has done a great job on these USB cables.  I sell them on my website now.  Highly recommended.

Steve N.

[satfrat]

Robin - I recently used a 5-foot Polestar with my own Off-Ramp 3 and I compared it to my Pace-Car 2, both driving the Overdrive DAC.  The Off-Ramp 3 into the S/PDIF input and the Pace-Car into the I2S input. 

For the first time, they were really close.  I would have to do a LOT of listening tests to tell the difference.

Lee has done a great job on these USB cables.  I sell them on my website now.  Highly recommended.

Steve N.

You really need to try out one of Lee's Nucleus USB cables Steve. If the Polestar impressed you, then you're in for a real treat with either the Axis or the Nucleus cables. Even tho I haven't tried out the Polestar myself, I have used both the Axis & Nucleus cables with your Off-Ramp 3 and I was forced to go with the Nucleus. Lee warned me upfront 3 times that the Nucleus was a dangerous cable to use with the Off-Ramp 3, unfortunately for my wallet but most fortunately for my ears, he was spot on.

The Off-Ramp 3 w/superclock 4 is btw 1 incredible USB transport. My only issue with it thou is I find it incredibly difficult to pull myself away from my listening chair now.

Cheers,
Robin

[audioengr]

Robin - I recently used a 5-foot Polestar with my own Off-Ramp 3 and I compared it to my Pace-Car 2, both driving the Overdrive DAC.  The Off-Ramp 3 into the S/PDIF input and the Pace-Car into the I2S input. 

For the first time, they were really close.  I would have to do a LOT of listening tests to tell the difference.

Lee has done a great job on these USB cables.  I sell them on my website now.  Highly recommended.

Steve N.

You really need to try out one of Lee's Nucleus USB cables Steve. If the Polestar impressed you, then you're in for a real treat with either the Axis or the Nucleus cables. Even tho I haven't tried out the Polestar myself, I have used both the Axis & Nucleus cables with your Off-Ramp 3 and I was forced to go with the Nucleus. Lee warned me upfront 3 times that the Nucleus was a dangerous cable to use with the Off-Ramp 3, unfortunately for my wallet but most fortunately for my ears, he was spot on.

The Off-Ramp 3 w/superclock 4 is btw 1 incredible USB transport. My only issue with it thou is I find it incredibly difficult to pull myself away from my listening chair now.

Cheers,
Robin

I guess you will need to learn chair-isometric exercises

Lee has told me that he will send me some cables, including the Nucleus to use when I showcase my gear at the BAAS meet in April.

Steve N.

[pardales]

I just got a Polestar cable yesterday. I'll post some impressions after i have lived with it for a few weeks.

[Mike19]

Hey Robin. Thank you for the advice.

Being 62 years of age, I have to "get it while I can." (from the Janis Joplin song)

Got some wonderful and totally unexpexted news from my accountant yesterday: I'm getting a $400 refund on my 08 taxes while I thought I would have to pay over $1700.

Bottom line: I can now afford one of the following:

1. Off-Ramp T3 w/ The Clock4 and The Big Battery; or

2. Polestar cable and T3 w/o Clock4 and Big Battery.

Recommendations?

Mike

[audioengr]

Hey Robin. Thank you for the advice.

Being 62 years of age, I have to "get it while I can." (from the Janis Joplin song)

Got some wonderful and totally unexpexted news from my accountant yesterday: I'm getting a $400 refund on my 08 taxes while I thought I would have to pay over $1700.

Bottom line: I can now afford one of the following:

1. Off-Ramp T3 w/ The Clock4 and The Big Battery; or

2. Polestar cable and T3 w/o Clock4 and Big Battery.

Recommendations?

Mike

I would recommend to pass on the battery and the get the Polestar and OR3 with SC4 to start with.  The battery does not improve it nearly as much as the USB cable or the SC4.

Steve N.

[cryoparts]

Lee has done a great job on these USB cables.  I sell them on my website now.  Highly recommended.

Steve N.

Thank you!  I added to you to my contact page today as a dealer, thanks for reminding me!

Lee has told me that he will send me some cables, including the Nucleus to use when I showcase my gear at the BAAS meet in April.

Indeed.  Please e-mail me when you get a chance to remind me the date you need to have these by.

Peace,

Lee

[cryoparts]

Lee warned me upfront 3 times that the Nucleus was a dangerous cable to use with the Off-Ramp 3, unfortunately for my wallet but most fortunately for my ears, he was spot on.

Cheers,
Robin

Ha!  Don't say I didn't warn you!   

Thanks for the kind words.

Lee

[satfrat]

Hey Robin. Thank you for the advice.

Being 62 years of age, I have to "get it while I can." (from the Janis Joplin song)

Got some wonderful and totally unexpexted news from my accountant yesterday: I'm getting a $400 refund on my 08 taxes while I thought I would have to pay over $1700.

Bottom line: I can now afford one of the following:

1. Off-Ramp T3 w/ The Clock4 and The Big Battery; or

2. Polestar cable and T3 w/o Clock4 and Big Battery.

Recommendations?

Mike

Hi Mike, I agree with Steve, you should get the Superclock 4 option with the Off-Ramp 3 and wait for Steve's battery when it comes out later his year. You don't want to short yourself on this transports perfornace potential plus Steve's wallwart PS is pretty damn good with this Transport as it is. Even thou I haven't heard the Polestar myself, I trust Jeff Day's review on this cable as he was accurate with his description of the Axis. The higher end Locus Design USB cables will highlite everything the Off-Ramp has to offer whereas the Belkin can only hold it back imho. Congrates on the tax return and enjoy the windfall.

Cheers,
Robin

[rumatt]

Can someone explain to me the theory on why the USB cable matters so much?

Does noise in the USB cable affect the clock in the off-ramp, affecting it's ability to have low jitter?

[audioengr]

Can someone explain to me the theory on why the USB cable matters so much?

Does noise in the USB cable affect the clock in the off-ramp, affecting it's ability to have low jitter?

No, the USB cable affects the signal from the computer.  The computer clock is actually used, so it wil have an impact, although the Off-Ramp Superclock reduces this jitter significantly. The theory is that the edge-rates and edge placement is affected by losses and impedance mismatch in the cable.  This will add to the jitter at the USB input of the Off-Ramp.

I just did a series of listening tests with my new Mac Mini.  It is fairly new, but in comparing USB from the Mac to USB from my Toshiba XP laptop, the Toshiba PC wins hands-down.  This is jitter from the computer at work.  Both comparisons were done with Locus-Design cables, short Axis from the Mac and long Polestar from the PC.  The PC still won.

I am beginning to suspect that the Amarra advantage is about 75% jitter reduction and 25% changes in the data.

Here's why.  I just tried the Mac Mini driving a Tascam US-144 through a Pace-Car reclocker.  Now the PC and the Mac are almost neck-and-neck.  I will have to let the Mac Mini break-in more and do more listening, but these are the initial assessments.

Dont get me wrong, I'm still planning to try Amarra.  There may be other benefits than jitter there.

For those using Mac and iTunes, you owe it to yourself to try a PC with XP and Foobar 0.8.3 with device unmapped.  Magical.

Steve N.

[SMc Audio]

An obvious question comes up: how does Mac hardware "sound" when driven by Windows / Foobar via Boot Camp?  This ought to be an interesting experiment in that it should provide some insight into the hardware vs. software question.  Perhaps Steve will be able to give it a try.

Best regards,

Steve McCormack
SMc Audio

[audioengr]

An obvious question comes up: how does Mac hardware "sound" when driven by Windows / Foobar via Boot Camp?  This ought to be an interesting experiment in that it should provide some insight into the hardware vs. software question.  Perhaps Steve will be able to give it a try.

Best regards,

Steve McCormack
SMc Audio

Good question, and I will try this after I install my SS disk next week.  I need Vista on the Mac Mini anyway in order to rip using dbpoweramp.

The plan is also to add SATA interface for a Tune Bank RAID1.

In the meantime, I think I will try Play and Songbird instead of iTunes.

Steve N.

[Brucemck]

Can someone explain to me the theory on why the USB cable matters so much?

Does noise in the USB cable affect the clock in the off-ramp, affecting it's ability to have low jitter?

No, the USB cable affects the signal from the computer.  The computer clock is actually used, so it wil have an impact, although the Off-Ramp Superclock reduces this jitter significantly. The theory is that the edge-rates and edge placement is affected by losses and impedance mismatch in the cable.  This will add to the jitter at the USB input of the Off-Ramp.

I just did a series of listening tests with my new Mac Mini.  It is fairly new, but in comparing USB from the Mac to USB from my Toshiba XP laptop, the Toshiba PC wins hands-down.  This is jitter from the computer at work.  Both comparisons were done with Locus-Design cables, short Axis from the Mac and long Polestar from the PC.  The PC still won.

I am beginning to suspect that the Amarra advantage is about 75% jitter reduction and 25% changes in the data.

Here's why.  I just tried the Mac Mini driving a Tascam US-144 through a Pace-Car reclocker.  Now the PC and the Mac are almost neck-and-neck.  I will have to let the Mac Mini break-in more and do more listening, but these are the initial assessments.

Dont get me wrong, I'm still planning to try Amarra.  There may be other benefits than jitter there.

For those using Mac and iTunes, you owe it to yourself to try a PC with XP and Foobar 0.8.3 with device unmapped.  Magical.

Steve N.

Steve, this is a GREAT addition to the field.  Much appreciated!

Have you ever listened / compared some of the other "esoteric" Windows players like XXHighEnd vs. your favorite Foobar?  Perhaps add them to the mix?

[audioengr]

Can someone explain to me the theory on why the USB cable matters so much?

Does noise in the USB cable affect the clock in the off-ramp, affecting it's ability to have low jitter?

No, the USB cable affects the signal from the computer.  The computer clock is actually used, so it wil have an impact, although the Off-Ramp Superclock reduces this jitter significantly. The theory is that the edge-rates and edge placement is affected by losses and impedance mismatch in the cable.  This will add to the jitter at the USB input of the Off-Ramp.

I just did a series of listening tests with my new Mac Mini.  It is fairly new, but in comparing USB from the Mac to USB from my Toshiba XP laptop, the Toshiba PC wins hands-down.  This is jitter from the computer at work.  Both comparisons were done with Locus-Design cables, short Axis from the Mac and long Polestar from the PC.  The PC still won.

I am beginning to suspect that the Amarra advantage is about 75% jitter reduction and 25% changes in the data.

Here's why.  I just tried the Mac Mini driving a Tascam US-144 through a Pace-Car reclocker.  Now the PC and the Mac are almost neck-and-neck.  I will have to let the Mac Mini break-in more and do more listening, but these are the initial assessments.

Dont get me wrong, I'm still planning to try Amarra.  There may be other benefits than jitter there.

For those using Mac and iTunes, you owe it to yourself to try a PC with XP and Foobar 0.8.3 with device unmapped.  Magical.

Steve N.

Steve, this is a GREAT addition to the field.  Much appreciated!

Have you ever listened / compared some of the other "esoteric" Windows players like XXHighEnd vs. your favorite Foobar?  Perhaps add them to the mix?

I have XXHighend , but have never tried it.  I'm mostly doing this Mac work now because it is a necessity for RMAF.

BTW, I tried Songbird and it is better than iTunes, I believe on both USB interface and with the Pace-Car.  I cant use it at RMAF though because I need Remote, which is only supported by iTunes.

Steve N.

[ted_b]

Steve,
Being that you need Remote for RMAF, have you thought about trying Squeeze Center to a Transporter, then AES/EBU out to your stuff?  That way you can use the iTouch//iPhone (iPeng is a Squeeze Center-based iPhone app identical to REMOTE) and quantify the sonics of doing ethernet stream 24/96 vs MAC 24/96 vs PC/Foobar (not a remote option, though). 

[audioengr]

Steve,
Being that you need Remote for RMAF, have you thought about trying Squeeze Center to a Transporter, then AES/EBU out to your stuff?  That way you can use the iTouch//iPhone (iPeng is a Squeeze Center-based iPhone app identical to REMOTE) and quantify the sonics of doing ethernet stream 24/96 vs MAC 24/96 vs PC/Foobar (not a remote option, though).

Yes, I've though about it.  This would work fine.  I have customers using Transporter with Pace-Car 2.  Howeever, for RMAF though I dont want to give the impression that it's the Transporter that is delivering the good sound quality.  This is the first thing that people will assume when they see the Transporter.

For RMAF, the 24/96 source will probably be:

Mac Mini -> USB -> Tascam US-144 -> TacT active crossover -> 2 Pace-Cars -> 2 Overdrive DACs -> 4 Battery powered amps - Speakers

Steve N.