Eye Catching Amplifiers

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Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #40 on: 17 Apr 2009, 01:21 am »
For amplifiers over 30 watts per channel, I prefer DC biasing. I make it so it's really easy to use and set up.

The NS-50 offers up to 50 watts per channel. Next, I have 100 watt monoblocks. I can look into 75 watt/channel iron for you if you want.  However, just so you know, monoblocks are better suited for this power level. It is better to use four power tubes to distribute the load rather than two when you go above 50 watts per channel. My design has only five tubes per channel (4 Power tubes  plus one driver tube).  These are DC biased, but as stated above, it's a simple setup. High power amplifiers are my specialty. Either model will operate very,very clean, fast and have superior resolution for digital sources and critical listening. They thrive on demanding movie passages too.

BTW: It sounds like the 275's bias wasn't set up properly.

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #41 on: 17 Apr 2009, 01:42 am »
I like vintage Fisher, Scott and Stromberg Carlson equipment and even more so using their iron in a modern streamlined circuit.

Based on my experience with these amps, their iron is top notch. Fisher and Scott tend to sound more contemporary to my ears: Smooth, edgeless, easy on the ears with no lack of bass, warm mids and slightly rolled off highs. Stromberg Carlson's amps vary in sound between modern tonality and that of the Scott & Fisher OEM equipment I have used. They all have A++++ iron in their favor.  :D

Since we're talking about push-pull circuits, the NS-15, NS-30 and NS-50 will outperform these vintage amplifiers. I use very good iron and it's the same quality as found in the Scott, SC & Fisher amps. What makes the NS lineup different (better) is their circuits. For tone customization, variable negative feedback can be incorporated within an amplifier. Tube rectification will provide more of a contemporary tone. 

The big deal here is how malleable the amps are. It's not hard to match an amp to somebody's tastes and what is already present in their system.

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #42 on: 17 Apr 2009, 01:48 am »
Hello and thank you for your compliments!  :D

Getting 30 watts out of a pair of El84's is not a good idea. That is asking allot out of them.  They ARE very good tubes and can be used.

What I can do: Run a quad of them to easily develop that power AND maintain their tonality with zero system stress. There will even be around 10 watts of extra headroom. I would use a 50 watt output transformer for this job.


jhm731

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #43 on: 17 Apr 2009, 01:58 am »
For amplifiers over 30 watts per channel, I prefer DC biasing. I make it so it's really easy to use and set up.

The NS-50 offers up to 50 watts per channel. Next, I have 100 watt monoblocks. I can look into 75 watt/channel iron for you if you want.  However, just so you know, monoblocks are better suited for this power level. It is better to use four power tubes to distribute the load rather than two when you go above 50 watts per channel. My design has only five tubes per channel (4 Power tubes  plus one driver tube).  These are DC biased, but as stated above, it's a simple setup. High power amplifiers are my specialty. Either model will operate very,very clean, fast and have superior resolution for digital sources and critical listening. They thrive on demanding movie passages too.

BTW: It sounds like the 275's bias wasn't set up properly.

Is your DC biasing user adjustable?

"BTW: It sounds like the 275's bias wasn't set up properly."

Since the 275's bias isn't user adjustable and there are no test points, I could only tell that one of the output tubes was running hotter than the other three.  I was happy to get it out of my system before it failed.

James Romeyn

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #44 on: 17 Apr 2009, 03:07 am »
Blair
For 30W what is estimated cost increase quad EL84 vs. pair of EL34 as we discussed earlier?  (Obviously extra labor & parts four outputs vs. two.) 

For neutral tonality, 85 Hz high-pass bass cutoff & 13 Ohm load as mentioned earlier, how might you describe audible difference quad EL84 vs. pair EL34? 

Thanks!

PS: I may order before the speaker project is done  :drool:...Can you put the amp in a receiver chassis so the wife won't notice?  :lol:     

   

Bemopti123

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #45 on: 17 Apr 2009, 03:46 am »
Can you put the amp in a receiver chassis so the wife won't notice?  :lol:     

   

Do not worry, Blair did accommodate my amp without "charging" storage fee, for a couple of weeks when he got my amp made. :thumb:

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #46 on: 17 Apr 2009, 12:18 pm »
Yes, my DC bias system is adjustable and from the outside with one knob.  Adjustments and fine tuning are very easy. No meters necessary!  :D

"Is your DC biasing user adjustable?"

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #47 on: 17 Apr 2009, 12:19 pm »
I will send an Email.  :D

Blair
For 30W what is estimated cost increase quad EL84 vs. pair of EL34 as we discussed earlier?  (Obviously extra labor & parts four outputs vs. two.) 

For neutral tonality, 85 Hz high-pass bass cutoff & 13 Ohm load as mentioned earlier, how might you describe audible difference quad EL84 vs. pair EL34? 

Thanks!

PS: I may order before the speaker project is done  :drool:...Can you put the amp in a receiver chassis so the wife won't notice?  :lol:     

   

James Romeyn

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #48 on: 17 Apr 2009, 04:23 pm »
The need is for a 30W single monoblock anticipated to be a final purchase (stop laughing now!) after doing this for many decades (the signature link explains the need for only one channel). 

The last choice to cross off the list was a 30W OTL which I heard in my system twice.

The OTL has the highest output impedance & highest load sensitivity of any known amp.  My monitors are HPXd around 85 Hz so impedance peaks in the bass are of little to no relevance.  But the OTL's FR will mimic any impedance peak above the bass range, including my speaker's 20 Ohm peak at a critical 2.2 kHz.  Duke LeJeune added a custom-engineered outboard parallel Zobel network that flattened the peak.  But future speaker changes are limited by the OTL's load sensitivity.  Here it must be admitted that on the proper load (read flat impedance), the OTL made music one can only dream of, distancing itself above an otherwise very good SS Plinius SA-50 Mk III pure class-A (runs pretty warm in class-A, similar size/weight to most 200Wpc amps & plays louder than a 200W Mosfet).  The OTL played louder than the Plinius.   

At another AC member's house I recently heard two great transformer-coupled monos, 200W transmitter-drive type & 300B.  They may miss some measure of the OTLs special magic into a flat load, but they restored my faith in transformer-coupling & have infinitely wider applications & load tolerance.

Lastly in importance is the issue of price, because shopping for price can be one of the worst mistakes any shopper can make.  The older you are & the longer you are into any hobby, the more you know that biting the bullet & spending more now saves a lot of money in the long run.  (This is one of the great pains suffering the poor, they have little capital to spend now that saves money in the long run.)  But these numbers can not be ignored.  The retail of the custom OTL being considered was in the low-$2k range minus extra cost options.   

Blair's Niteshade, as last discussed, will be a fraction of the above number, even after accounting for a good retail discount on the OTL.  All the above + Blair's pedigree described at his website + circuit descriptions + his personal tastes described + the phone conversation + personal attention + the pages viewed here make a menu item I must audition.   

For reader's information, this is not in any way shape or form posted as a put down for anyone's products, including any OTL maker.  I might like to have both types of amps & maybe will if finances allow later.   

My 2 yen.   

jhm731

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #49 on: 18 Apr 2009, 01:38 am »
Yes, my DC bias system is adjustable and from the outside with one knob.  Adjustments and fine tuning are very easy. No meters necessary!  :D

"Is your DC biasing user adjustable?"

According to your website, "Tunable Biasing" is a $200.00 option.

How does someone check/adjust DC biasing on one of your amps that doesn't have this option?


Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #50 on: 18 Apr 2009, 01:51 am »
I'll tell you something- that $200.00 option is going to change soon. I like it so much that it will be standard equipment on DC biased amps. I will have a price for making an amp 30 watts and under DC biased and leave it at that.

How the tunable bias system works: The DC Biasing knob is calibrated to 12 O'Clock for the tubes the amp is sent with.  My setting is a tad conservative. That provides 'tuning' leeway for either more or less bias and/or different tube types. It works very,very EXTREMELY well! Amps with this option come with instructions specific to that amp. On top of working extremely well, it's incredibly easy to use. The knob is on the outside. I have placed it on the front of many NS-50's.

jhm731

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #51 on: 18 Apr 2009, 02:42 am »
I'll tell you something- that $200.00 option is going to change soon. I like it so much that it will be standard equipment on DC biased amps. I will have a price for making an amp 30 watts and under DC biased and leave it at that.

How the tunable bias system works: The DC Biasing knob is calibrated to 12 O'Clock for the tubes the amp is sent with.  My setting is a tad conservative. That provides 'tuning' leeway for either more or less bias and/or different tube types. It works very,very EXTREMELY well! Amps with this option come with instructions specific to that amp. On top of working extremely well, it's incredibly easy to use. The knob is on the outside. I have placed it on the front of many NS-50's.

How does a single DC Biasing knob adjust four output tubes which may not be perfectly matched and change as the tubes age?



Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #52 on: 18 Apr 2009, 11:35 am »
Tubes may wear at slightly different paces and that is fine. Most of the time that is not an issue. Tubes are generally biased in pairs, or all together, such as in a Fisher 500C.

What if one tube acts up and becomes considerably different than its mate? Then it's defective and should not be compensated for.

I do not like the individual tube biasing setup of some amplifiers. It turns people off and there's no need to worry about subtle differences.


jhm731

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #53 on: 18 Apr 2009, 04:07 pm »
Tubes may wear at slightly different paces and that is fine. Most of the time that is not an issue. Tubes are generally biased in pairs, or all together, such as in a Fisher 500C.

What if one tube acts up and becomes considerably different than its mate? Then it's defective and should not be compensated for.

I do not like the individual tube biasing setup of some amplifiers. It turns people off and there's no need to worry about subtle differences.



I've owned lots of amps with separate bias controls, and it never turned me off.

Good luck with your business.

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #54 on: 18 Apr 2009, 04:08 pm »
A few notes for you:

1] Switching to a lower power amp does not automatically mean sonic improvements. I balk at selling someone, say a 10 watt amp when they are used to a 30 watt amp. Here's what should be done: The power should remain the same or increase. It's a change in tonality you're looking for. I can make high powered single ended amplifiers. I have push-pull circuits that provide incredible resolution.

2] No need to eliminate your high powered amp if switching to a smaller listening room. Power output is controlled by your volume control. The added headroom of a larger amp will only serve to process peak demands efficiently. Of course, if there is no physical room for the amp- that's another story.

Amplifier solutions are best provided via a flexible amplification provider.  :hyper:

Visit Niteshade Audio's web site!

Thanks everyone for your questions.

Niteshade

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Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #55 on: 18 Apr 2009, 04:37 pm »
Different things bother different people. Those who are used to SS amplifiers or used to cathode biased smaller tube amps often don't like having to constantly mother their amplifier. In fact, this mothering is what turns many people off. I don't blame them.

The Tunable Bias setup is a splendid system that many people now enjoy. The main idea is to bias the tubes to run as cool as possible without loosing sound quality. It works perfectly. 

You may not have thought about this: If someone wants to operate their amplifier at, say half power, the bias control can be set to allow the tubes to run cooler with no ill effects on sound quality. This greatly extends tube life too.

I added up the pro's and con's of this biasing approach and found the advantages greatly outnumber any disadvantages. I didn't find any important disadvantages to speak of.  A considerable amount of time and money goes into research, building prototypes, testing, etc...

Some people are more into the technical aspects of tube amplification. I think you're one of them and that's great. Please keep an open mind to new ideas!

_______________________________________ _____________________________________
"I've owned lots of amps with separate bias controls, and it never turned me off."



jhm731

Re: Niteshade Audio: Amplifiers & Preamplifiers + Custom Equipment
« Reply #56 on: 18 Apr 2009, 09:22 pm »
Different things bother different people. Those who are used to SS amplifiers or used to cathode biased smaller tube amps often don't like having to constantly mother their amplifier. In fact, this mothering is what turns many people off. I don't blame them.

The Tunable Bias setup is a splendid system that many people now enjoy. The main idea is to bias the tubes to run as cool as possible without loosing sound quality. It works perfectly. 

You may not have thought about this: If someone wants to operate their amplifier at, say half power, the bias control can be set to allow the tubes to run cooler with no ill effects on sound quality. This greatly extends tube life too.

I added up the pro's and con's of this biasing approach and found the advantages greatly outnumber any disadvantages. I didn't find any important disadvantages to speak of.  A considerable amount of time and money goes into research, building prototypes, testing, etc...

Some people are more into the technical aspects of tube amplification. I think you're one of them and that's great. Please keep an open mind to new ideas!


"Some people are more into the technical aspects of tube amplification. I think you're one of them and that's great. Please keep an open mind to new ideas!"

I'm interested in the best SQ.

I have an open mind, that's why I took the time to read this thread.

Mahalo for answering my questions.

« Last Edit: 18 Apr 2009, 11:49 pm by jhm731 »

Niteshade

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I'm always happy to discuss my products and answer questions.

It's all part of our 'assumption-busting' process.  :D

Niteshade

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Single Ended Parallel Amplification
« Reply #58 on: 21 Apr 2009, 08:45 pm »
Single Ended Parallel Amplification: A way to provide single ended tonality WITH gusto!

What's the biggest problem with most single ended amplifiers? Not enough power.

I have a remedy for you: The SEP. Paralleling power tubes is a fine way to gain power without sacrificing the tiniest hint of performance.

Some ideas: Parallel 6550's, El34's, KT88's, 6L6's, El84's

Here's the great thing: Want more power? Place more tubes in parallel! 

Power AND Performance. We know how to do it.

Niteshade

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How do we make the proper amplifier for you? By matching the equipment to the buyer. We go much,much further than just selecting a model for you. 


Niteshade Audio is a synonym for flexibility.   

Take a look at our web site.  :D