[stvnharr]

Steve-
I use the Cardas formula as a starting point and move the speakers around from there. My room is just a bit smaller than Hugh's (138" x 210").
My speakers have rear firing ports. I've found that they sound, image and measure better further out from the rear wall. The sweet is not just a few inches.
BTW- Sumiko trains their dealers on the Master Set methodology. Here's a review:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1197744079
The Wilson Audio set up procedure also uses a similar methodology.
"With Master Set you can sit anywhere in the room with same sound."
If you're sitting a few feet directly in front of either speaker, the image/soundstage is the same as sitting between the speakers?
Dan

Dan,
Dave Stephens wrote a good review of Master Set. I've corresponded with him for awhile. In fact he is one of those who helped me in my DIY efforts at doing Master Set. Dave is a customer and friend of the Sumiko dealer in Denver, Rod Tomsen, who I have known for 15 years, and who has helped me the most in my DIY Master Set. If you search the audiogon forums for "Master Set" or "Iron Chef" you'll get most of what's been written on Master Set other that what I have written here on AC.  At some point in time, Rod Tomsen may write an article for one of the audio magazines, which would be good.  Rod is probably the number one practictioner of Master Set of all the Sumiko dealers.  He does not sell a set of speakers without home delivery and Master Set setup, and the customer pays extra for this. You get a perfect setup by the master.

With Master Set, the sound is pretty much the same, no matter where you sit.  The sound always stays in the center and does not move with you. If you move way to the side like to the right of the right speaker or left of the left speaker, the perspective to the centered sound will change a bit.  It's analogous to moving seats at a symphony from the right section to the left section to the middle section.
As long as the speakers are pressurizing the room equally the sound always stays the same. What happens when the speakers are even slightly different is that you always then tend to hear the louder speaker, especially if you move to that side, even just a little.

In my set up here, I have the choice of a seat perpendicular to the right speaker, a couch seat way to the left of the left speaker, or a moveable seat that I can put in the middle. I no longer sit in the middle position as the right seat is comfortable and the sound is the same. BTW, my speakers have a rear port, and it presents no problems whatsoever.
At Hugh's yesterday, we had a seat in the middle, a seat to the right of the right speaker, and a seat to the left of the left speaker. We all moved around and agreed that it was the same in each seat.  Hugh and Marty were amazed.  I knew it would be that way if I had gotten it correct.

Master Set is not really the only way to get this equallization of speaker sound pressurization into the room, it's just one way. I really don't know any other way, so I use this one.  The more I do it, the better I get at it, it's a long learning curve.

Steve

[jhm731]

Dan,
Dave Stephens wrote a good review of Master Set. I've corresponded with him for awhile. In fact he is one of those who helped me in my DIY efforts at doing Master Set. Dave is a customer and friend of the Sumiko dealer in Denver, Rod Tomsen, who I have known for 15 years, and who has helped me the most in my DIY Master Set. If you search the audiogon forums for "Master Set" or "Iron Chef" you'll get most of what's been written on Master Set other that what I have written here on AC.  At some point in time, Rod Tomsen may write an article for one of the audio magazines, which would be good.  Rod is probably the number one practictioner of Master Set of all the Sumiko dealers.  He does not sell a set of speakers without home delivery and Master Set setup, and the customer pays extra for this. You get a perfect setup by the master.

With Master Set, the sound is pretty much the same, no matter where you sit.  The sound always stays in the center and does not move with you. If you move way to the side like to the right of the right speaker or left of the left speaker, the perspective to the centered sound will change a bit.  It's analogous to moving seats at a symphony from the right section to the left section to the middle section.
As long as the speakers are pressurizing the room equally the sound always stays the same. What happens when the speakers are even slightly different is that you always then tend to hear the louder speaker, especially if you move to that side, even just a little.

In my set up here, I have the choice of a seat perpendicular to the right speaker, a couch seat way to the left of the left speaker, or a moveable seat that I can put in the middle. I no longer sit in the middle position as the right seat is comfortable and the sound is the same. BTW, my speakers have a rear port, and it presents no problems whatsoever.
At Hugh's yesterday, we had a seat in the middle, a seat to the right of the right speaker, and a seat to the left of the left speaker. We all moved around and agreed that it was the same in each seat.  Hugh and Marty were amazed.  I knew it would be that way if I had gotten it correct.

Master Set is not really the only way to get this equallization of speaker sound pressurization into the room, it's just one way. I really don't know any other way, so I use this one.  The more I do it, the better I get at it, it's a long learning curve.

Steve

Steve-

Did you look at Dave Stephens' bass response?  See:

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1211754811.jpg

The off axis performance you're getting maybe acceptable for listening to studio recordings, but to recreate the illusion of a soundstage (if it's been captured on a recording) requires that your ears receive direct sound from the speakers before multiple room reflections come into play.  This is why many people listen in the nearfield set ups.

BTW- I'd love to see a picture of yours and Hugh's set up.

Dan

[AKSA]

Dan,

I'll take a picture of the setup in the bloom of full sunshine tomorrow.  It's been overcast and raining most of today!

Cheers,

Hugh

[Tliner]

Hi All,

I have been moving the speakers around a fair bit this evening to try and position them in the "right" location. It has been an interesting exercise to say the least. I have managed to get two locations for the speakers which are fairly different. But the results produced are nearly the same in the listening area. Now I have a choice of two very symmetrical listening areas extending out beyond the left and right speakers with no really identifiable sweet spot like before. But I econ pole position is still the best though. However the imaging is very good and with instrument placement within the sound stage. So when I have lost the race for the sweet listening spot I won't be all thet put off now.

I appear to have overcome the hard sound reflecting surface of a sideboard close to the right speaker although the RH speaker is now some 600mm closer to it. I would suppose that the reflected sound waves are now deflected somewhere towards the back of the room outside the listening area.

Steve, thanks for getting me off my butt and getting my enthusiasm up enough to play around trying for audio Nirvana.

Hey, I can't let Hugh's virtually identical system sound better better can I?,

Made my day!

I'll paly a few tracks and call it quits for the day.


Cheers,


Laurie

[Felipe]

-----
Found it. You all may be referring to Balad of Runaway horse....

-------
May i ask what CD of Jennifer Warnes has that 'Cowgirl' Track ???

The one eveyone seems to talk about here - Famous Blue Raincoat, has this track list :

01 First We Take Manhattan 03:47
02 Bird On A Wire 04:42
03 Famous Blue Raincoat 05:33
04 Joan Of Arc With Leonard Cohen 08:01
05 Aint No Cure For Love 03:22
06 Coming Back To You 03:44
07 Song Of Bernadette 03:55
08 A Singer Must Die 04:53
09 Came So Far For Beauty 03:40
10 The Night Comes On 04:51
11 Ballad Of The Runaway Horse 08:22
12 If It Be Your Will 03:09
13 Joan Of Arc Live 07:54

I don't seem to find 'Cowgirl'...
Best regards,
Filipe

[richidoo]

Sorry Felipe, it is the "Ballad of the Runaway Horse," you got it right. It is a duet with Warnes and Rob Wasserman, the bassist. It was referred to earlier in this post as cowgirl something, which is a lyric in the song, and I couldn't remember the real name. Just in case you haven't seen them already, here are links to stvnharr's previous posts describing the Master Set instructions in detail.

Master Set Speaker Placement
DIY Master Set Procedure

[AKSA]

Thanks Richie, much appreciated, my memory is exquisitely shot through like Swiss cheese, I'd forgotten the name....

Felipe, let us hope that Master Set meets Mistress in perfect harmony at some time in the near future.....  (and tell her from me that I think she is very beautiful, that might help a little.....)

Cheers,

Hugh

[stvnharr]

At your convenience and pleasure Steve, I would very much like for you to indulge us in your ideas and understanding about Master Set. The subtleties are always the hard part to grasp. Your experience doing it a few times is valuable to us who are learning to do it. 

Thanks
Rich

Rich,
I'll give this a go now, and see how it goes. What I'm about to write is purely my own thoughts based on my own observations and listening experiences to speakers set up with Master Set, and the ideas I received in the comments from Rod Tomsen at RMAF and on the phone, and from Dave Stephens in emails. I'll try not to repeat too much what I have written before. I just hope I get things correct and somewhat easy to understand.  Here we go>>>>>

Let's start first with 2 channel speaker listening. Basically what we hear is the sum of the response from each speaker. The sound is distributed in the recording so as to sum in the middle of the two speakers. That's how recordings are made. When we put two speakers in a room we thus then invisibly divide the room along a line that runs perpendicular between the speakers. This is where the sound from the two speakers sums. If you sit anywhere on that line, you get a fairly balanced left-right image of the sound. You also are dividing the room into two sound pressure zones, left and right, each zone being pressurized by the speaker in that part of the room. Now, sound (air) pressure is what the speaker driver creates. This is what then vibrates the eardrum and what the brain interprets as sound. You won't find much mention, or at least I haven't, about sound (air) pressure in audio writings, so hope you understand what I am referring to here, as it's vital to understanding Master Set.
Thus, we have a situation where the right speaker is filling the right part of the room with sound pressure, and the left speaker is filling the left part of the room with sound pressure. And the sound pressures meet in the middle.  If only one speaker is playing, it will fill the whole room with sound, and you instantly recognize that all sound is coming from that one sound source. But with both speakers playing you are recognizing that the sound is coming from the middle of the two sound sources.
Now, the two parts of the room will invariably be different, in size, shape, and reflective and/or absorptive properties. One part of the room will be larger than the other, even if only by a very small amount, though it is theoretically possible for the two parts to be perfectly alike down to a decimal point or two, in practise this is not too likely to occur. Anyway, this larger part of the room will require slightly more sound pressure than the smaller part of the room in order for the sound to sum perfectly in the middle as designed.
Remember, each speaker is playing at exactly the same level from the amplifier, and should be equally balanced in signal level. These equal power levels are then put into the room, and the larger area needs just a little more sound pressure to equally fill the area with the other part of the room.
I hope this is not confusing anybody, but I think that it is a different concept from the common audio thought, or at least it was to me.
Anyway, you then must adjust one of the speakers to be louder in order for the sound pressure in each part of the room to be equal and perfectly sum in the middle. This is what Master Set does, and why each speaker is set individually in the room and in relation to the other speaker. In the end, you have one speaker slightly closer to the rear wall than the other one. Room gain will give the closer speaker slightly more sound pressure to fill the slightly larger area.
When the sound pressure is equal in both parts of the room, then the sound will sum perfectly in the middle creating a single source of sound. And because of the equal sound pressure levels anywhere in the room, the sound will be virtually the same anywhere in the room.
That is what is being done with Master Set.

Some points about Master Set:
The long wall in the room works best. Remember, the room is invisibly divided by the two speakers. Dividing along the long wall gives a more square shape and the sound will more evenly fill the space without reflecting off the walls. Dividing along the short wall gives a long narrow shape that will be very subject to wall reflections.  BUT, if the room dimensions are fairly close, you can set up along either wall without too much difficulty.

Listener should sit at least a foot away from a wall. You can get some sound bounce off a wall if you sit too close. But you don't have to move too far away from a wall.

The equal sound pressure throughout the room usually negates any need for room treatment or correction. Experience will tell you about this, once you listen. I've seen little to no correction in the Master Set rooms that were done professionally.

You will be able to sit anywhere in the room with the sound only differing in perspective, like changing seats in symphony hall, or any concert venue.

The steps of Master Set are analogous to those of focusing binoculars:
1. Adjust lens to one's head/set speakers apart in room for good centered sound.
2. Focus the fixed lens on the object/set the "anchor" speaker in the spot of smoothest bass
3. Focus the adjustable lens to match the fixed lens/set the other speaker to match the bass level of the "anchor" speaker.

The hardest part about doing DIY Master Set is listening to the bass line and hearing the plonky, unevenness, and then finding the spot that mitigates this. This is usually not easy to hear, and will test your patience. However, you can just guess with this. But it makes it a lot harder to find the matching level with the other speaker, as the bass mitigation spot does give you a reference point to match.  

Master Set is a close to rear wall set, rather than a set up way out in the room.
In the first step, you move one speaker out until all sound is heard from just that one speaker.  There is then a small area of 5 or 6 inches where this occurs. If you move the speaker out farther, it reconnects with the other speaker. This small area is where the moved speaker disconnects from both the rear wall and the other speaker. It's setting is independent of both. I can only say that this is desireable, and a tenet of Master Set, but I can explain no more.
Obviously, the speakers could be set anywhere in the room and you could somehow match the sound pressure levels as described above. But it would be hard, and a real trial and error process, but you could do it, and have very good sound.

Master Set will allow you to fully hear what your system is capable of doing. It's a great way to evaluate your system. Music tends to sound better with Master Set so you tend to find that you've got a better music system than you thought, and that's always a plus.

I hope all of this helps, and that I have not confused anyone.

Steve

[stvnharr]

Steve-

The off axis performance you're getting maybe acceptable for listening to studio recordings, but to recreate the illusion of a soundstage (if it's been captured on a recording) requires that your ears receive direct sound from the speakers before multiple room reflections come into play.  This is why many people listen in the nearfield set ups.

BTW- I'd love to see a picture of yours and Hugh's set up.

Dan

That's why you don't put speakers close to side walls!
With Master Set any room reflections will arrive too late to be recognized, unless you sit up against a wall.
The only study of room reflections that I'm aware of is a 1984 AES study, (James. M. Kates, "A perceptual criterion fo rloudspeaker evaluation, "Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, vol. 32, pp. 938-945, December 1984. This study established that sound arriving at the ear within 5 milliseconds of direct arrival is recognized as direct sound.
There seem to be various numbers for how long the brain will recognize reflected sound, but I don't think there is any validated time on that. Some say anything over the 5 millisecond time is unrecognized, others say up to 30 milliseconds is recognized.
My experience with Master Set is that reflections are mostly eliminated or too late in arriving, unless you have a really live room.

BTW, I have a very small room. Fortunately there is a 10 foot ceiling. I have very good sound. Maybe a pic some day.

[andyr]

Master Set is a close to rear wall set, rather than a set up way out in the room.

Steve

Ah thanks, Steven, for explaining that point.  I think that stops the Master Set being used for Maggies, as they require at least 1.2m behind them to give the beautiful spacious soundstage which is the Maggie hallmark (the centre of my bass panels are 1.6m off the front wall).

Thanks anyway.

Regards,

Andy

[Tliner]

Hi All,

Steve, Thanks for taking the time to post the Master Set theories in a well ordered manner. I'm sure that you will put grins on the faces of people who faithfully follow the set up method.

For those interested I also use another CD that is helpful to align the speakers. I also use a high quality CD titled "ABC Jazztrack Sessions home grown and rare" #476 5947. Most tracks were  recorded at the ABC Southbank studios. I use track 4 on which Michelle Nicholle sings "Ah wish" with a great double bass backing from Belinda Moody. Actually this track was recorded live at Bennetts Lane Melbourne during the 2000 Women's Jazz festival by the ABC. You learn a lot about the artists when you read the blurb!


Have fun,


Cheers,

Laurie

[DSK]

Steve, let me preface this post by admitting that I've never tried the Master Set philosophy and that my thoughts/opinions should be taken as me thinking aloud and offering points for discussion rather than necessarily disagreeing with you or stating anything as fact ....

...Room gain will give the closer speaker slightly more sound pressure to fill the slightly larger area.
When the sound pressure is equal in both parts of the room, then the sound will sum perfectly in the middle creating a single source of sound. And because of the equal sound pressure levels anywhere in the room, the sound will be virtually the same anywhere in the room....

OK, I think I can see how the sound pressure will sound even at the frequency/ies you used during the Master Set exercise (ie. bass). However, vocals and other midrange and high frequency instruments that are above the frequency range impacted by the room's shape/capacity (ie. above ~200hz) will not be equidistant from the listening position (assuming it is the regular equidistant triangle setup) and these vocals/instruments will be pulled toward the nearest speaker. Also, dependent on the speaker design, moving the speaker closer to the wall will reinforce a certain bass frequency range and this frequency range will move as you get closer to the wall. Some bass frequencies will be more in phase with the other speaker, but others will be more out of phase and possibly produce nulls.

...The long wall in the room works best. Remember, the room is invisibly divided by the two speakers. Dividing along the long wall gives a more square shape and the sound will more evenly fill the space without reflecting off the walls. Dividing along the short wall gives a long narrow shape that will be very subject to wall reflections...  

Crossing the speakers in front of the listening position will significantly reduce side wall reflections, making the music sound far more relaxed and less edgy. You are still sitting at the same number of degrees off-axis, just to the other side of the axis. This has the additional benefit that when you sit closer to one speaker (in a right-left of sweet spot sense), you become further off-axis from the speaker you are moving closer to and more on-axis to the more distant speaker. This means that the amplitude from each speaker remains even and the imaging remains intact ... no dragging of vocalist to the nearest speaker.

...The equal sound pressure throughout the room usually negates any need for room treatment or correction. Experience will tell you about this, once you listen. I've seen little to no correction in the Master Set rooms that were done professionally...

From a bass perspective perhaps. But, if the room is bright and reflective with a longer than ideal reverberation, the only way to remedy this is by a combination of diffusion and absorption.

...Master Set is a close to rear wall set, rather than a set up way out in the room...

I'm sure there are exceptions but IME, when speakers are placed close the the wall behind, the soundstage depth suffers.

I agree completely that it is important to get the bass right, it underpins everything. Most people have only ever heard poor subs or subs setup poorly and/or integrated poorly. They therefore hear a muddying of the mids and view subs as the devil's work. However, when really good subs are really well integrated with the mains, you are not really aware (most of the time) that there is a sub, and the mids actually sound more natural and realistic. Without excellent lower bass, mids will sound lean with unnaturally sharp image outlines.
IME it is very difficult to integrate a sub well by ear. It is possible but can be a long and frustrating exercise. I have had great results using measurement tools such as ETF5, third octave pink noise, and the good ol' RS meter (with calibration adjustment). I haven't (yet) spent as much time on the integration with my current speakers, but measurement at the listening position shows response of +/-3dB from 20hz-4khz (using third octave pink noise). There is definite improvement despite the mains being rated at -3d at 25Hz or so. In the room they were rolling off well above this, but bringing the sub in at ~40Hz with a 24dB/octave LP filter provides a beautiful extension of the bass and a greater sense of the "space" of the venue. The walls of the listening room just seem to melt away.

When I get some time, I'll be interested to play around with the Master Set setup to see what I am able to achieve in my room. Thanks for putting in the effort of writing it up Steve.


 

[richidoo]

Steve, I've not yet had time to read your reply (sick kid), just wanna give a quick thanks for your long response. I've got it printed out so I can read it while sitting in the dark next to the little puker. hehe

Hugh: swiss cheese   

[stvnharr]

Hello again,
Here are some more Master Set points that came to me after yesterday's long post:
In Setting the anchor speaker, I have made mention of bass plonkiness, resonance, etc., as if that will just stand out and hit you in the face or something. Not so!  You need to just listen to the bass line and note the smoothness and/or accentuation of all the notes. In every set I have done there has been an accentuation of the 10th note. This note is plucked harder by the bassist, and you will hear that. Some times there are other notes that will have a plonky character, some times not. You just need to listen and note what is there. When you get the speaker out where you only hear the one speaker, "The Dead Zone" as some have called it where the speaker is separated soundwise from the wall and the other speaker, you move the speaker out in very small increments and note any change. You continually do this until you "THINK" you hear something change. You are seeking for the evenness and smoothness in ALL the notes, as best as you can hear. It can be very very hard to hear. On Friday I did disconnect the speaker against the wall while doing this, as it was all quite difficult to hear any changes. I did find a point where there was a very slight change and smoothing in the bass line. It wasn't much.  BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. You are only looking for a point of reference!!!! Thinking you hear something is good enough!
In Setting the second speaker, both Hugh and I immediately heard the matching point of reference in the bass line. It was not much, but we both heard it and spoke at the same time.  That was real good confirmation. And I'm sure that Hugh can verify that it all was not much of a change, but we could hear it. 
That's all you are looking for, a reference point in Setting the Anchor that you can match in Setting the other speaker.

Also, I have mentioned the need for small movements of the speaker. In Friday's session I was making 2-3 mm movements, or about 1/8th of an inch. The window for hearing the change in Step 1 was about 3-4 mm's. The window of matching in Step 2 was 2 mm's. I only heard the matching in one move. The move before and the move after was out. I made several moves after finding the spot, just to make sure I had indeed found it, and just moved back to that one point, and that was that. And we all agreed on that.
Needless to say, this can be hard to hear, and easily missed.  Many of my early trials and errors in Master Set were due to making moves that were too large, and I missed the spots. Small moves can try your patience, but I have found that I get really involved in everything and just lose all perspective of time.

I might add that I think everything was hard to hear on Friday because the speaker was so well designed in the low end response. The bass was exceptionally smooth, even with both speakers against the wall, where it can be a little rough. Most people have ported speakers, and I think they will act up a little more.   
 
Hope this helps.

Steve

BTW, At times I have used other discs in doing parts of Master Set, or verifying afterward that it is all good.  But I have found that I have had the best success in just using Ballad of a Runaway Horse while doing the MS. However, by no means is there any exclusivity in this song.  In fact, I wish I had taken a couple other discs with me, that I am most familiar with and have used in the past, for verification that I got things correct, because I know how they sound in perfect Set.

One more point: my usage of the term "close to the wall" has caused a bit of consternation, and I should not have used it, as it is a relative and undefined term.  More to the point, the speakers are essentially in "The Dead Zone", as described above. This begins when the middle of the REAR of the speaker is about a foot out in to the room, but it is different with every speaker and room. The FRONT of the speaker, where the sound is generated, is of course that foot plus the depth of the speaker. So lets then say that the speaker(s) are a couple feet or so in to the room. I believe that most people generally refer to the front baffle when talking about how far the speaker are out in the room.
Anyway, hope this clarifies things a bit.

[stvnharr]

Darren,
Nice to hear from you and read your long and considered post.
Your thoughts/opinions are those of the more traditional audio sense with all the references to frequency response derivations, speaker crossings, etc.
Master Set is none of that, it is a different way of looking at things.

In nature, ALL sounds are single source sounds, as the laws of physics prevent something from being in two places at once. There can be multiple single sounds, and moving sounds, but no sounds from two places at once.

Two channel audio playback tries to break the laws of physics with two sound sources at once. Of course what we hear is the sum of these two sources, and think that they are one.
Master Set sums the 2 sound sources by equalizing the sound pressure that is generated by each loudspeaker and creates equal sound pressure everywhere in the room as the sum of the two speakers is the same everywhere in the room. Some correction to this may be needed, but it's usually very little.
Conventional methods of placing speakers in the room leave the sound sources as two unequal sound pressure generators giving different sound everywhere in the room as they will always sum and balance differently in every single place in the room. Then one tries to correct this unequal summing in various ways, that all work fairly well, but they are only correct for that one place.
Remember it's ALWAYS the sum of the two sources that you hear.

Master Set is a different way to look at things, to be sure.


Darren, all I can add is that you need to hear a Master Set.  OR, you can take an afternoon and give things a go. If you can't make heads or tails of it, you just move things back.

All I can add is that all I did that October afternoon was walk in to a room to say hello to an old friend.  There were all these posters with "Master Set" on the walls. I had never heard of it. It sounded like another catchy audio marketing phrase. The music system was just another system at a show of hundreds of music systems, all pretty good audio systems. I did as everyone does, wait until I got a chance at the "sweet spot". Noticed that the "sweet spot" was the same as 3 chairs over. I got more intrigued when I sat way to the right of the right speaker, and had the same sound. I then noticed that the vocals sounded more life like than I had ever hear audio playback sound period. I then wanted to know more. I wanted to know how I could get "That Sound".

Steve

[Tliner]

Hi Hugh,

The cleaner lady moved the speakers this morning and now they have to be reset. And I can'r remember EXACTLY where they were positioned so I have to go through the Master Set process again.

So Hugh, please mark the position of your speakers with a texta should they be moved ever so slightly before I have a listen.

Cheers,

Laurie 

[AKSA]

Laurie,

Great idea!  See you here tomorrow for a listen!

Hugh

[markC]

Hi Hugh,

The cleaner lady moved the speakers this morning and now they have to be reset. And I can'r remember EXACTLY where they were positioned so I have to go through the Master Set process again.

So Hugh, please mark the position of your speakers with a texta should they be moved ever so slightly before I have a listen.

Cheers,

Laurie 

You allow your cleaning lady to move your speakers???!!!

[Tliner]

HI Mark,

Got no say what gets shoved around let alone by how much!

The "cleaner lady" is the missus. Lucky she doesn't get to look at this site or I would be shot with a reference like that I would be shot. It was suggested that I do the cleaning if I don't anything moved. As for a speaker locating texta mark on the floor, I don't think it would be a good idea here for health reasons.

Interestingly, while re-establishing the placement for the speakers using the bass to locate "the spot" I noticed that the voice coming from the R/H speaker was suddenly harsh. The L/H speaker sounded sweet. I swapped the speakers over and the harshness from the R/H position still persisted.  I noticed that a lounge chair in the corner adjacent to the R/H speaker had been moved some 18" from the wall closer to the speaker. Shoved it back to its original position and the harshness has vanished. I have taken a few measurements of the positioning of the speakers for future reference.

Cheers,


Laurie

[markC]

Well, if the "cleaner lady" is the wife, then say no more, say no more...