Digital output for SACD or DVD-A?

Don_S · « **on:** 10 Mar 2009, 08:30 pm »

I am asking these questions for a friend. He asked me (thinks I know everything and I don't want to disappoint him).

He is working on two projects-- building a music server and buying a new HT receiver. I don't follow SACD or DVD-A developments so I am passing the baton to the experts here. I already pointed him toward the sticky for building a server.

Are there any digital input/output options for those two formats--either now or anticipated?

Thanks, Don

tvyankee · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 09:33 pm »

hey

don't think you can get dsd or dvd-a out of anything other then hdmi.

i have a oppo dvd player and it pretty much does everything and only puts it out over hdmi.

good luck

Don_S · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 10:09 pm »

Quote from: tvyankee on 10 Mar 2009, 09:33 pm

hey

don't think you can get dsd or dvd-a out of anything other then hdmi.

i have a oppo dvd player and it pretty much does everything and only puts it out over hdmi.

good luck

HDMI would be fine. It is becoming more common on even lower price range equipment. I bet the "pretty much anything" does not include SACD.

BradJudy · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 10:13 pm »

SACD can also be transferred digitally via iLink (firewire) on devices that support it (Sony and Pioneer IIRC).

Don_S · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 10:17 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy on 10 Mar 2009, 10:13 pm

SACD can also be transferred digitally via iLink (firewire) on devices that support it (Sony and Pioneer IIRC).

Brad, by also do you mean SACD can be transfereed by HDMI and firewire?

tvyankee · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 10:39 pm »

yes

you can do sacd (dsd) over hdmi. that is what the http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/default.asp player does.

fred · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 12:39 pm »

Many SACD and DVD-A players can be upgraded to pass a digitial output. I bought an upgrade to my Oppo to do just that, from here:

http://www.switch-box.com/3x_S_PDIF_Transceiver_%28In_Out%29_board.html

ted_b · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:00 pm »

OK, for multichannel:
* Shawn's switchbox is ONLY for those processors (Meridian, Lexicon) that have the very proprietary 3-4 spdif digital inputs (l/r, c/sub, surrounds) for accepting 5.1 hirez digitally. SACD is downconverted to 24/88.2
* For SACD and DVD-A multichannel you can use HDMI 1.1 (and SACD will be downconverted to 24/88 PCM) or HDMI 1.2 (or greater) and SACD could be carried in pure DSD assuming the processor/reciever has a DSD decoder.
* you can rip DVD-Audio full 24/192 to computer via DVDAexporer, ripping all six channels (huge files). SACD cannot be ripped by anything but professional DXD recorders ($100k pro stuff).
* or finally, analog cables

For stereo:
* all the same options above (Shawn's card being slight overkill cuz you'd only use one of the three or four custom SPDIF outputs. This card is for modding Oppos, generally, but he's creating a catch-all too)
* For DVD-A only (not SACD) some of the later mid-range universal players like Oppo and Panasonic somehow skirt the earlier copyright and protection issues and output full 24/192 from digital coax, this being true for both PCM and packed PCM (MLP proprietary). As stated earlier, this is not true for SACD. No output, downconverted or otherwise for SACD.
*

WerTicus · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:03 pm »

i love DVDA now the format has been cracked

got a music server full of really big wav files.

google "DVDA Explorer 2008.07.21"

ironically now that its cracked i've bought 10x as much media... fking idiot record execs

ted_b · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:08 pm »

Quote from: WerTicus on 17 Mar 2009, 01:03 pm

i love DVDA now the format has been cracked got a music server full of really big wav files.

google "DVDA Explorer 2008.07.21"

ironically now that its cracked i've bought 10x as much media... fking idiot record execs

Yeah, I've ripped all my rock/jazz stuff so far, and convert to FLAC or Wavpack. I keep two copies of the 24/192 stuff, one for a later DAC,, and one downconverted to 24/96 for my Transporter (dbPoweramp does a great job downconverting, as long is it's a clean exact multiple; 192 to 96, etc.). Even in Wavpoack the files are huge; can you imagine 5.1 wav at 24/192?

WerTicus · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Mar 2009, 12:52 am »

at $200aud a terrabyte ... who cares

but yes they are rather large!

probably $50 bucks in the usa.

ted_b · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Mar 2009, 01:03 am »

Quote from: WerTicus on 18 Mar 2009, 12:52 am

at $200aud a terrabyte ... who cares but yes they are rather large!

probably $50 bucks in the usa.

An average 2 channel wavpack'd 24/192 album is about 1.5Gb. Assume 5.1 is three times that, or roughly 4.5-5Gb. That means 200+ super hirez 5.1 surround albums per terrabyte (at $90/TB) or about $.45 per album.

doctorcilantro · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 10:04 pm »

What do these SACD players witha digital out downsample to? I'm under the impression that they can output PCM in order to be capable with DACs. Do any do 24/96 so we can maintain a good quality source to another DAC?

DC

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2009, 10:29 pm »

Quote from: doctorcilantro on 17 Jun 2009, 10:04 pm

What do these SACD players witha digital out downsample to? I'm under the impression that they can output PCM in order to be capable with DACs. Do any do 24/96 so we can maintain a good quality source to another DAC?

DC

DC, I haven't found an SACD player that will output anything via digital SPDIF or toslink...anything, even PCM. The PCM conversion is for HDMI. I'll try in a few minutes on the Oppo 980 but doubt it.

doctorcilantro · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Jun 2009, 03:56 pm »

What comes out of this Oppo's coax & Tos ?

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/images/Blu-ray-BDP-83_back_hr.jpg

Jon

ted_b · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Jun 2009, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: doctorcilantro on 26 Jun 2009, 03:56 pm

What comes out of this Oppo's coax & Tos ?

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/images/Blu-ray-BDP-83_back_hr.jpg

Jon

Toslink: likely only 48k, but don't know
Coax: 44k of cd audio, up to 48k of Blu-Ray audio, up to 96k of DVD-V audio, up to 192k of DVD-A audio...no SACD.

Here's the Oppo confirmation:

The BDP-83 is designed like the DV-980H and the DV-970HD, where the coaxial and optical outputs are capable of outputting 16-bit/192KHz in Stereo from a DVD-Audio source, CD is always 44.1KHz, DVD-Video can go up to 96KHz (select DTS soundtracks), Blu-ray is always 48KHz, and SACD can't be passed at all over these connections.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043

JoshK · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Jun 2009, 04:59 pm »

This may sound jaded, but when I looked at Amazon (where I tend to buy a lot of my music), I found a grand total of 19 releases for DVD-A in the Rock genre. With that extremely limited selection, I gotta ask, who cares? Only if you had purchased a lot of DVD-As already and have some of your favorite recordings on this format could I see it being worthwhile.

For me, SACD was another non-starter. Just not enough releases in music I care about. Redbook still reigns supreme for my musical tastes.....LP is a *very* distant second.

ted_b · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Jun 2009, 05:33 pm »

Josh,
If you are not interested in HiRez, then fine. Not sure why you'd wanna post then, frankly. Thanks.

BTW, there are about 4,500 SACD releases and about 2,000 DVD_Audio releases. Rock is not a huge genre, but represented by about 800-1000 of these releases, all signifcantly better audio than their redbook counterparts, IMO (I own about 300 rock releases). Moreover, the onset of a significant number of HiRez downloads and the possibility of Blu-Ray audio are enticing developments..

Moon Doggy · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 03:30 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 26 Jun 2009, 04:59 pm

This may sound jaded, but when I looked at Amazon (where I tend to buy a lot of my music), I found a grand total of 19 releases for DVD-A in the Rock genre. With that extremely limited selection, I gotta ask, who cares?...

For me, SACD was another non-starter. Just not enough releases in music I care about. Redbook still reigns supreme for my musical tastes.....

I really have to take issue with these comments. The selection of high quality, well mastered and uncompressed albums in redbook CD is quite limited. Especially in the Rock genre... unfortunately my favourite. It takes a great deal of effort selecting CDs that do not sound horrible even outside of the rock genre. Redbook may reign supreme quantitatively but certainly not qualitatively. If I can supplement the slim offerings in Redbook CDs with DVD-A, SACD, vinyl, and HiRez downloads then I am more than happy to do so.

Regards

soundboy · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 26 Jun 2009, 05:33 pm

BTW, there are about 4,500 SACD releases and about 2,000 DVD_Audio releases. Rock is not a huge genre, but represented by about 800-1000 of these releases, all signifcantly better audio than their redbook counterparts, IMO (I own about 300 rock releases). Moreover, the onset of a significant number of HiRez downloads and the possibility of Blu-Ray audio are enticing developments..

Actually, over 6,000 SACD titles have been released worldwide, although only about 5,900 are listed at sa-cd.net. As for the development of Blu-ray as a music carrier, it doesn't seem that Blu-ray is cutting into SACD's sales since SACD releases in 2009 is on roughly the same pace as that of 2008 (comparing the number of SACD releases for the first 6 months of each respective year, as listed on sa-cd.net). And this is with the depressed economic situation around the world.