[jman66]

Hi Folks!

After reading the forum for a while now, it's time to jump in and ask some questions.

After running a digital-only front end for some time now, I'm getting the urge to venture back to vinyl.
I haven't played vinyl in, well I can't recall, which means it has been a long time...
Which leads to two questions:

• Do I attempt to resurrect my Technics SL-D2 table with a Shure V15 type V cart.?
• I'm unsure of the condition my vinyl is. Although I did try to take care of them during my teen years, there's probably an  inevitable scratch. In the least, they would need a thorough cleaning.

I'd need to pick up a phono pre and probably a decent record cleaner that doesn't break the bank.
The Shure cart. was fine back in the day, may have seen better days, plus I don't think replacement styli are available.
Thanks for any advice you experts can lend!

-jim

[Scottdazzle]

Jim,

I was in your position about 2 years ago and would be glad to offer you the benefit of my recent experience. 

There are a lot of good phono preamps for very reasonable prices on Audiogon all the time. You can always upgrade later if you really get the bug (you probably will!).  Try something you can afford from a reputable manufacturer like Pro-ject, CIA, Jolida, Creek, Musical Fidelity, Cambridge, Rega, etc.  Lots to choose from. If you don't like it, there's a good chance you can sell it and get most of your investment back. 

Rebalance your tonearm and re-set the antiskate. Do not skip this step! 

Get a deep groove cleaner for your LP's.  Again, there are a lot to choose from, but this is an essential purchase.  You will not believe how much return on your investment a good cleaner will make.  I went for the VPI 16.5 which is the best $500 I ever spent on anything in my life.  No shit.  The fact that you took care of your records will be rewarded. A handheld brush is good for surface dust only.

I'd be very careful about the cartridge. If the cantilever is off-center, don't use it.  If you know you put a lot of hours on the stylus, be very careful. Play a record that you think has quiet surfaces that you don't mind ruining to find out if the tip is okay.  Steady surface noise is a sign that the stylus, if not the whole cartridge, needs to be retired.  There are a lot of good cartridges available for modest bucks. Two that a lot of AC'ers like are the Audio Technica AT-440 Mla and the Denon DL-160.

I am not familiar with your table, but properly set up, any reasonably decent table will give you the rich analog goodness of vinyl. 

Good luck, and most of all, have fun!   

[jman66]

Scotthobby, thank you for the advice!
That makes me feel a little better about using the SL-D2 again, but I think I'd play it safe and get a new cart.
Now off to find a good deal on the VPI cleaner and a phono pre.   

-jim

[Wayner]

The D2 is a direct drive isn't it?

Wayner

[jman66]

Yes, the SL-D2 is servo direct drive.

[thegage]

Now off to find a good deal on the VPI cleaner

-jim

I'll beat a dead horse here. You do not need to spend the money for a VPI RCM. Yes, they are really sexy in looks and operation, but the two options below will get your LP's as clean or cleaner for less than half the price of a VPI machine.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1240945823
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php

John k.

[jman66]

I'll beat a dead horse here. You do not need to spend the money for a VPI RCM. Yes, they are really sexy in looks and operation, but the two options below will get your LP's as clean or cleaner for less than half the price of a VPI machine.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1240945823
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php

John k.

John(thegage),

Thanks for the alternatives. Do you use either cleaning product and if so, what's your opinion of them?

-jim

[TheChairGuy]

John/thegage,

Which system of these do you use (if you use them).

I am frankly thrilled with my Nitty Gritty 1.0, and only bought for $125 used on ebay, but recognize potential for doing some hard to record with the vacuum function (and dirty silk 'lip')

It's also noisy; both links you pointed out would seem to be quieter (and maybe a little faster method)

John

[thegage]

John/thegage,

Which system of these do you use (if you use them).

I am frankly thrilled with my Nitty Gritty 1.0, and only bought for $125 used on ebay, but recognize potential for doing some hard to record with the vacuum function (and dirty silk 'lip')

It's also noisy; both links you pointed out would seem to be quieter (and maybe a little faster method)

John

I use the G.E.M. Dandy system. I posted a review over at Audio Asylum a while back. As I noted, I used a Nitty Gritty for a long time, but the G.E.M. system to me seems better, even given its obvious home-made appearance. Also, although in the review I say I vacuumed, I didn't for very long, figuring I should go the whole hog. There are plenty of records I cleaned on the NG that I probably couldn't hurt with additional vacuuming, but I buy new LPs and figured I'd make 'em clean but vacuum-free.

Instead of the recommended cotton diapers I use some very high quality micro-fiber cloths to dry with, which I think work a whole lot better, plus the record ends up almost static-free, which was not the case with the cotton towels. I also bought a very fine, soft artist's brush to agitate the fluid a bit on those LPs that are truly grimy. But as the manufacturer notes, you can take a filthy LP and clean it without contaminating any brushes

Assuming you have a sink/tub you can use to rinse it's a great system, and it's quiet!

John k.

[jman66]

I read through the forum sticky on cleaning vinyl, great information. Since I've never employed a formal cleaning method (outside of using a Discwasher brush/liquid way back when), I'm going to assume my vinyl isn't too good, based on this blurb on the LAST products site:

Maintenance Cleaning
Routine maintenance record cleaning prevents abrasion damage that is caused when dirt and debris that have collected on the on the record surface are dragged against the groove wall by the stylus.

If I didn't deep clean and protect from the get-go, then there's got to be irreparable damage, right?
Not knowing if the cart. was aligned exactly would also contribute to some damage also...

-jim

[doug s.]

i have one comment re: record cleaning.  i have been using simple sponge, mild dish soap and luke-warm tap water for for about forty years. this, plus the use of a "dust-bug, which is always on the record when it's being played, opposite the stylus, has always worked great for me, keeping my records clean and noise-free.  (at least as far as surface noise due to dust/dirt/etc, is concerned.)

ymmv,

doug s.

[jman66]

So having a little bit of time, I cleaned up the SL-D2, oiled the bearing and she runs just fine for a 30 year old.
Using a Technics protractor downloaded from Vinyl Engine, I tried my best at checking the alignment of the old
Shure cartridge. From what I was able to see (with my poor eyes), it looked to be pretty much on target.

I used an old NAD C160 pre as interim phono stage and played back an album.
Not too shabby, given the vinyl needs cleaning, the cartridge is old and who knows what about the phono section in the NAD.
Kind of flat founding, lacking in the bass dept. but nothing offensive.

Ordered a new cart. from KAB, along with their EV-1 cleaner. We'll see what difference those two items make.

-jim

[twitch54]

i have one comment re: record cleaning.  i have been using simple sponge, mild dish soap and luke-warm tap water for for about forty years.

I'm in agreement with the cleaning part, but no way should one 'generalize' the use of tap water, way too many variables of contminents involved.
Bottled distilled water is cheap, buy all means use it instead.

[TheChairGuy]

So having a little bit of time, I cleaned up the SL-D2, oiled the bearing and she runs just fine for a 30 year old.

30 year olds run fine...it's 40's-and-up that feel rusty

Good luck on your journey back.....you'll likely soon realize wtf you left in the first place. If it's purportedly the music that keeps you an audiophool, there is no better way to extract as close to the original event as vinyl.

It ain't a cinch to do like plug n' play playback devices, but it's worthwhile when you get most of the matter right That's why we go thru some elaborate steps with vinyl and congregate together on our advances and foibles....because vinyl honors music best.

Ciao, John

[jman66]

It certainly is the music...
I listened to two albums so far that I haven't heard in years but if felt like I just heard them yesterday; it was all still fresh...

What lured me away from vinyl was the lack of surface noise that digital offered. Unlike now, back then I had no idea the cleaning that vinyl required, save for a pass or two of the Discwasher brush. Not to mention the record shops like Disc-o-mat and Sam Goody dried up and went the way of the Dodo...

Even though the setup thus far is far from optimal, there's an "ease" to the sound, more relaxing.

If anything, I've expanded my playback source options.

Any suggestions regarding phono stages? Some have the option to load the catridge while others have a fixed value. A vital tuning option?

-jim

[TheChairGuy]

Jim/jman66,

Yup - reducing groove noise to levels as low as possible (while recognizing noise will always be higher than digital technologies) is a huge boon to enjoying vinyl.  Once you clear a really clean path for the eeny-weeny stylus to plow thru you get some remarkably better tunes....and quieter backgrounds to enjoy them amidst

My opinions on phono stages run a bit counter to current (I believe regularly flawed) convention, but as you asked, I'll offer:

* A HUGE preference for built-in phono stages and full features preamps.  The less the connections from cartridge to preamp the better.  When you ask eeny-weeny cartridge signals (measured in millivolts) to hop over multiple solder joints and rca jacks you're begging for signal degradation.  Part of the superiority of digital technologies is their short transmission line...when you add complexity to the already complex task of amplifying and (RIAA) equalizing cartridge signals, you're begging for lesser sound (all matters being equal)

* A minor preference for solid state phono amplification over tube.  I like my tube 'euphoria' in the amp stage, but phono pre-amp signals (where ~40db is added into the mix) is best handled by solid state.  Dynamics with vinyl are often tepid....combining signal robbing adjuncts between the TT and line preamp and tube pre-amplification results in droll/limp presentation.  The tube phono preamp needs to have a massively powerful transformer and or multiple levels of voltage regulation throughout to be of value to sonics.  That tends to be pricy and rare indeed to find.

* A LARGE preference for dual mono over a single transmission line handling your stereo signals within the preamp.  Stereo separation is vastly inferior with vinyl to digital technologies, preservation of it's slight stereo separation is crucial to getting really high quality vinyl tunes out.

So there you go.  I recognize and understand most of the relative differences in phono amp qualities, high and low output cartridges, moving coil vs. moving magnet debates...but mostly prefer high output moving magnet/iron cartridges running straight into a full featured, dual mono preamp then on to my tube amps.  It sounds like heaven to me here

But, everybody is different so I understand if you, or anyone else here, disagrees with the above.

John