[James Romeyn]

OK, sorry for the theatrics.

Just got my Bill Berndt-Empire 208 running a few hours ago.  Bill may name it himself, but till he does I hereby christen in the BE-208 (for Berndt-Empire 208).  You can read about it in this circle & also at the Bay Area Audiophile circle.

Because I knew the BE was coming & because I had such high expectations for it, I specifically sought to audition one of the best mid-priced ultra-high-end tables.  It was also a great reason to reaquaint myself w/ someone I used to do business w/, the gracious Allan Perkins of Immedia.  Allan designed w/ a partner the Spiral Groove SG-1, $20k USD MSRP.  He makes one arm for $6k USD.  At CES '09 it was (till now) the best vinyl playback I'd heard.  It is also probably the most costly vinyl system I've ever auditioned.  I wrote "mid-priced" because you can spend well over $100k on a table.

My BE-208 has a Rega 300 arm w/ upgraded wire & counterweight; cartridge is a Rega Super Bias from many years ago, preamp is the RIAA section of a late-'60s early '70s Panasonic straingauge demodulator.

I'd place the BE right up against the SG, no problem.  I weighed the BE at 64.2 lbs w/ arm, the SG is spec'd at 70 lbs minus arm.  The BE is unsuspended, don't know whether the SG is suspended or not.

The soundstage of the BE is so dense & so packed w/ music that I don't even know where to start.  At any SPL up to where either my amp or speakers start to get a little fuzzy, there is no feedback whatsover; none.  There are four sealed 10s spread throughout the room ala Geddes/LeJeune, powered by a 500W amp.  The bass is so visceral it can hardly be described.  Above about 80 Hz it's like a solid dimension of pure musical bliss in the front 2/3rd of the room; below 80 Hz or so the bass covers the entire room, as you'd expect. 

Why the subject title?  My Red Book source is one of the best available; it's been my favorite except for maybe an Esoteric rig costing about $40k. 

Red Book is so far below, so many steps below, so distant from the sound of the BE-208 table described above, the best comparison would probably be to call it audio-cassete-like.  We all know the audio cassette was invented for dictation.  Sony & Phillips invented only pure convenience & an absence of surface noise w/ SPDIF & not much else.  It is my distinct opinion that Red Book should NOT be considered an adequate source for judging the quality of a music system.  If it's the only source, fine.  I would heavily discount or compleley disregard system descriptions & conclusions assembled using Red Book only as a source.  An analogy (pun intended) would be to test drive a high-performance car w/ bias ply tires or the wrong fuel.  You'll get conclusions, but not very relevent ones.

To be frank, there might be a really high-quality audio cassette which would be preferred to my CD source if the BE-208 (or a master tape) was used as a recording source for the cassette.          

For reference, just before hearnig the BE-208 I also sampled some of the best hi-rez digital recordings on earth, being SACDs made by Ray Kimber in his special four-channel Iso-Mic method (interestingly recorded only 45 mins south of me at Weaver State U).  Iso Mic SACD gets maybe half way to the BE but still lacks the musical bliss & visceral impact.

That's my story & I'm sticking to it. 

So far there are three BE-208s in existence, two in the SF Bay Area & one in north Utah.  Bill is usually amenable to auditions & I'm enthusiastic to show off mine if anyone's in the Salt Lake City area. 

In closing: I've thought about the following before, but it has greater meaning since getting this table running.  I may have never met Bill if not for this forum.  In perusing the circles to post at this vinyl circle, it really hit me what a fantastic forum John (the site owner) has assembled.  The huge selection of categories & ease of getting your needs met is quite a fete.  Kudos to John & the rest of the facilitators for their efforts, but esp to John. 

[orthobiz]

Pics?

Paul

[thunderbrick]

Price?

[James Romeyn]

Here it is at Bill's w/ my arm, minus triangle-shaped cover (crinkle black matching the plinth); it covers the pulley & three-point motor mounts.   Also minus my Merril lead/foam mat.  When first hearing about the crinkle black & seeing Bill's pics taken close-up w/ bright flash (not these pics), the black looked too sparkly & contrasted too much w/ the whitish birch base.  In person, no contest, uber sexy.   





More pics tomorrow.  If necessary, to convey its essence, I'll slug it upstairs for indirect natural lighting.  The wife's piano teacher is a very talented photographer; she can shoot it next Wed.   

[low.pfile]

Well, I for one want to hear it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the BE 208.

But I am not clear what exactly a Bill Berndt Empire 208 is. I know this is Berndt, an AC'er that you speak of (I've met him at the meets) I know that the Empire 208 is a venerable TT. But what is in between?  Will these be for sale? Did you buy this or auditioning it?

And I am not sure where SLC is either? I'm in the Bay Area.

Cheers, Ed

[Berndt]

Sorry that jim was perhaps a touch enthusiastic.
I made three of these and I don't want to do it again.
I think it is more fun just to make stuff for my friends.
I want to say that Peter Truce was the brains behind the curtain, FWIW.
Without Peter this thing would not have lifted off, without Edwin Yang I would not have a phono stage.
Look forward to Jims picures.
Regards, bill

[James Romeyn]

I (wrongly) thought Bill was interested in making more of the TTs, apologies for that mistake.

Leftover from the original Empire are the bearing, platter, humoungous motor & that's about it.  Dynamat was added underneath the platter.  I estimate the OEM plinth is a 3/16" aluminum casting w/ little if any machining required (all/most of the required holes were part of the casting process); the OEM plinth was replaced w/ a solid brick of 1.5" thick (about 8x thicker) billet aluminum meticulously machined for the bearing, motor mounts & arm hole.  My intuition is performance is greatly enhanced by the arm mounting directly to the plinth (no arm board). 

The birch base & sub-base was done by someone else (the sub base alone might weigh 20 lbs).  IIRC Peter (another happy owner of one of the three tables) said maple is just a little harder than the wood chosen here.  Gravity holds the parts together: the plinth sits in the cutout near the top outer corners of the birch base, while the sub-base fits inside the same cutout (inverted, upside down) in the bottom of the base.  There's a ton of Dynamat on the top surface of the sub base, which may be MDF or HDF.  As if Bill's machining of the four solid aluminum points isn't enough (pics coming), he machined a 5th tap in the sub-base to choose between four or three point mounting; over the top.  The table is massive, beautiful art deco that happens to be an ultra-high-end music reproduction machine.       

Bill machined a 4+ lb solid brass record clamp; unfortunately I left it at his house.  Drats!  I'll do my best to properly convey the unspeakably delicious brass power switch front center w/ concave top fitting one's finger so puuuuurfectly; so sweet you think it might disappear. 

SLC = Salt Lake City.     

[Wayner]

Bill,

Is that Granite that the table plinth is made out of.....you devil. I was going to do that!

Wayner

[Berndt]

The plinth is a 14"x16"x1.5" aluminum plate, 6061.

[Wayner]

Ah, yes. Now I remember.

[James Romeyn]

I saw pics of the tables w/ unfinished aluminum plinth & the crinkle black.  Before seeing them in person I thought the raw aluminum might be preferred for its retro industrial character.  After seeing both tables together the black is much preferred.