[topround]

Going to buy a new preamp, and I have the choice of an Alps Blue Velvet, Alps Stepped attenuator, or a crazy rk50 super expensive pot.
I know some people preferred the stepped attenuators.
Never having one I ask why is stepped better.

Thanks

mike

[mjosef]

I would go with the pot...music sound much better with it.  aa

[Rashiki]

Stepped attenuators are nice because they're usually set up to work in 0.5dB  increments, so you know exactly how much louder or quieter the sound is by counting clicks. Also, with a stepped attenuator, you know that there will be minimal wiring and a single high-quality resistor regardless of volume. A normal potentiometer will change the amount of "stuff" through which the signal flows depending on the volume.

 -Rob

[toobluvr]

Stepped resistor volume controls are reported to sound better.

Be advised that with it, you may have trouble getting the exact desired volume.  This is especially true if you have lots of gain in your system.....either d/t sensitive speakers, or an amp with high input sensitivity, or a particularly gutsy source.....or a combination of these.....and you listen low level at times.  The problem is that the steps are not as precise as the continuous controls, especially at the bottom of the range.  If you listen late at night, and you have decent gain in your system, you will find yourself at the bottom of the volume pot where the steps can be quite large, like 3 or 4 db.  As you get higher on the volume pot like in the 9 to 3 o'clock range, the steps will decrease to a more reasonable 1 db (usually) per step.  This is because the view is that the preamp will mainly be used in that range, but that is not always the case.

I once owned a very high quality preamp with a discreet resistor stepped volume control.  Theoretically "better" approach and "better" sound be damned.....I hated it!     

I could never get the exact volume I wanted.  It was one of the reasons I sold it.   I am much happier now with my continuous volume control.

Just yesterday I was visiting a buddy who owns the very fine First Sound Presence preamp.  It too has dual stepped attenuators and he is bitching and moaning about the same exact thing.   The lack of precision and control is so irking to him, that he is sending it back to the factory to get it re-calibrated.

Who needs the friggin' hassle?!     

Go with a continuous volume pot.  Purists and theory-guys will probably argue but I really don't think the sonic give-up is much (if anything at all) and you are gaining a ton of convenience.  Take it from one who has been there.  If you get the stepped control I think you will regret it.

Good luck in whatever you do, Mike!
 

[BradJudy]

With many stepped attenuators, the signal goes through a number of resistors, not just one, and it varies with volume.  They are also most commonly using 1dB or 2dB steps.  It's rare to see one at 0.5dB because it leaves such a small usable range with the standard 24 steps.  Some are progressive and have larger steps at the bottom (or even top) like the GoldPoint ones.  

Stepped attenuators have a nice advantage that the channels should be well matched across the entire range.  Pot channels are often mismatched at the lowest of volumes.  

[toobluvr]

...............
Stepped attenuators have a nice advantage that the channels should be well matched across the entire range.  Pot channels are often mismatched at the lowest of volumes.  

Solution:  dual continuous controls.

[rajacat]

I replaced the Alps Blue in my Mapletree preamp. with one of these (100k):

http://cgi.ebay.com/DACT-Type-23-Stepped-Attenuator-Potentiometer-10K-300b_W0QQitemZ270334964045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270334964045&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

I noticed an increase in sound quality but mostly the placement of instruments and separation was improved. I thought it was a good and relatively cheap upgrade.

-Roy

[bummrush]

stepped,nice 100% repeatable steps,great channel balance,1db steps or .5 even better,if its over 1 db step that not fine enough for me.Although and i've never seen this on a remote before,had a Atoll pre amp had 2 sets of volume, one set of buttons,raised ,lowered volume as usual,the other up down buttons were very fine controlled,and quite easy to get the exact setting you wanted.Never saw that anywhere before.

[Ruby Mae]

,

[toobluvr]

stepped,nice 100% repeatable steps,great channel balance,1db steps or .5 even better,if its over 1 db step that not fine enough for me.Although and i've never seen this on a remote before,had a Atoll pre amp had 2 sets of volume, one set of buttons,raised ,lowered volume as usual,the other up down buttons were very fine controlled,and quite easy to get the exact setting you wanted.Never saw that anywhere before.

If I remember correctly, the Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 had something similar.  There was a separate two position switch that controlled the size of increments on the stepped volume control.  At one setting the db per step were large, on the other setting the db per step were smaller.  Ingenious approach, I thought.

[topround]

Thanks Guys!

I think i am going to go with the cheaper normal Alps pot. Knowing how we agonize over sound can you imagine agonizing over the volume. That would be too much for me..
Mike

[toobluvr]

Good move, Mike.

I actually prefer the sound of my lower priced preamp......the one with the "inferior" and non-audiophile approved continuous volume control.     

The volume pot isn't everything, and as you say, there are more important things to worry about than the ability to achieve the desired volume!

 

[rydenfan]

What is the pre you are getting??

[Bemopti123]

There must be a cut out point when short path stepped attenuators will make a difference.  It seems as if most costly preamps sport stepped attenuators and acoording to the manufacturers these attenuators allow extra transparency, which for me, it sounds as if they are cattering to those who could afford these products.  When you mention that you are getting an affordable preamp it makes me wonder if the stepped attenuators will actually allow more transparency that was designed for at the price point?  Maybe a good analogy about these stepped attenuators should like adding expensive hi speed z rated tires to a regular sedan.

[rajacat]

Good move, Mike.

I actually prefer the sound of my lower priced preamp......the one with the "inferior" and non-audiophile approved continuous volume control.     

The volume pot isn't everything, and as you say, there are more important things to worry about than the ability to achieve the desired volume!

 

It's not about volume level. It's about transparency which is more in the category of sound quality. Audiophile approved. Why don't you get rid of your tube amps and turntable too?

Actually, one could go ahead and get the amp with the cheap pot and later experiment with the stepped pot posted above and judge with your own ears. It's only $25; not exactly a snotty audiophile price. It did make a noticeable  difference in sound quality according to my ears.    Much greater improvement than any audiophile sanctioned power cord.   YMMV.

-Roy

[toobluvr]

Good move, Mike.

I actually prefer the sound of my lower priced preamp......the one with the "inferior" and non-audiophile approved continuous volume control.     

The volume pot isn't everything, and as you say, there are more important things to worry about than the ability to achieve the desired volume!

 

It's not about volume level. It's about transparency which is more in the category of sound quality. Audiophile approved. Why don't you get rid of your tube amps and turntable too?

Actually, one could go ahead and get the amp with the cheap pot and later experiment with the stepped pot posted above and judge with your own ears. It's only $25; not exactly a snotty audiophile price. It did make a noticeable  difference in sound quality according to my ears.    Much greater improvement than any audiophile sanctioned power cord.   YMMV.

-Roy

I agree that transparency is an issue.  But you cannot say it is not about volume level.  It may not be everything, but it is certainly a consideration.  If you ever had a unit where precise control was a problem, you would understand that.

But my main point was.......

That my current line stage with the continuous volume control and the cheaper price tag sounds better to me than my previous one which was pricier and had a stepped volume pot.  When choosing a line section, there are more things to consider than the type of volume pot.  Choosing one over another simply because its volume control is stepped is not wise, and does not always equate to better sound.  The whole is sometimes more than the sum of the parts.

Now, if I were to add a stepped pot to my current line section would it sound better?  Maybe.  Actually, probably yes.  I was not disputing that.

I was merely saying that it is possible to get a continuous volume control unit that sounds better than one with a stepped pot.  I also meant to say (but was probably unclear) that even if a particular unit sounds just slightly marginally better with a stepped pot vs a continuous one, it is conceivable that one would still prefer the continuous control for the greater precision and flexibility it provides in achieving desired listening levels.  It all depends on your priorities, if you tend to listen low level, and if your system (and hearing) is even revealing enough to highlight subtle differences.

It is not black and white that a stepped control is always "better".

My opinion and choice of wording (ie: audiophile approved) seems to have ruffled your feathers.


I chose that phrase simply to mean what is generally accepted without question in the audio community as being sonically superior.  No disrespect intended.

And I do agree with your rec about adding the stepped control later and deciding for yourself.  It is certainly a cheap and reasonable approach.

PS:  I did not realize that tube amps and turntables were "audiophile approved".  Where does that leave all those that tend to prefer SS and digital?           

[Brown]

How about a TVC or the new Slageformers from Bent in lieu of the traditional methods.  Worth a try. Any opinions ?

[rajacat]

toobluvr,

No problem. My feathers aren't ruffled. Sorry I was a little snarky. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

 I'm sure that there are superb non stepped attenuators that do a good job too. I believe that Vinnie (Red Wine Audio) uses a very able standard type pot in his very pricey preamps and integrated amps.

-Roy

[richidoo]

A stepped attenutor designed to use only one series and one shunt resistor at any one setting can be made to sound better depending on the quality of resistors. Quality resistors distort the signal less than the plastic resistor element and wiper in a potentiometer. This is audible in a passive VC like placette. A light dependent, variable resistor based attenuator takes this even further by eliminating the switch contacts altogether.  

A good quality pot like Alps is still an excellent attentuator. Most older recordings have dozens of them in the signal path or instruments. But in audio there is always something better for the golden ears. 

[BlkNotes]

 Hello Richidoo;

       Do you know of a company(s) or sources that are producing the " light dependant, variable resistor based attenuator" How much better is the sound as compared to the stepped attenuators?

Which quality step-attenuators are the best?

Thanks
BN