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Did my thread get hi-jacked AGAIN!
Quote from: BoB/335 on 23 Feb 2009, 09:04 pmDid my thread get hi-jacked AGAIN! Looks like it. Too bad because I was enjoying it before. Now I will remove it from my subscription list. Better luck next time.
Hey George,Do you have a link to your GTG?
We were hoping to have a pair of Rocket 850's to put in this equation. The 850's didn't make it. You could probably post some thoughts in the AV123 section in this forum. But please share even if you just PM me.
Quote from: Nuance on 23 Feb 2009, 06:27 pmQuote from: GeorgeHudetz on 23 Feb 2009, 06:11 pmSo, just to be clear, you listen with the tweeters pointed directly at your ears, as opposed to the tweeter axes intersecting somewhere behind your ears?It depends on the speaker, drivers used, room acoustics/interaction, etc. Besides, when I refer to on-axis, I mean between the two speakers in order to get the proper stereo imaging. Off-axis usually refers to a degree of measurement in which one sits off to the left or right of the speaker or "sweet spot," with the "sweet spot" being between both speakers at the listening position. The definition I was referring to was concerning that "sweet spot and it's axis." If we are talking "axis" based on one speaker or amount of toe-in, then we are talking about two different definitions. If our definitions of "on-axis" and "off-axis" differ, then we'll just attribute our differences to that. I hope that make sense. In short, in varies on a number of different things and preferences, but it would seem our definitions may simply differ. Aren't "on-axis" and "off-axis" definitions the same no matter where you sit in the room or how many speakers there are? For example I could sit to the left of the left speaker and point both speakers directly at me, wouldn't that be "on-axis" for both speakers?Lin
Quote from: GeorgeHudetz on 23 Feb 2009, 06:11 pmSo, just to be clear, you listen with the tweeters pointed directly at your ears, as opposed to the tweeter axes intersecting somewhere behind your ears?It depends on the speaker, drivers used, room acoustics/interaction, etc. Besides, when I refer to on-axis, I mean between the two speakers in order to get the proper stereo imaging. Off-axis usually refers to a degree of measurement in which one sits off to the left or right of the speaker or "sweet spot," with the "sweet spot" being between both speakers at the listening position. The definition I was referring to was concerning that "sweet spot and it's axis." If we are talking "axis" based on one speaker or amount of toe-in, then we are talking about two different definitions. If our definitions of "on-axis" and "off-axis" differ, then we'll just attribute our differences to that. I hope that make sense. In short, in varies on a number of different things and preferences, but it would seem our definitions may simply differ.
So, just to be clear, you listen with the tweeters pointed directly at your ears, as opposed to the tweeter axes intersecting somewhere behind your ears?
In theory yes, but when you actually listen and experiment with your proposed scenario in comparison to sitting in the "sweet spot" with the speakers pointing at your ears (or very close...say 15 degrees one way or the other), I am willing to bet the sound will be very different, especially when taking into account room interaction. Try it out and you'll see what I mean. This is why, when I speak of on-axis, I mean a person sitting in the "sweet spot" while having the speakers toed in directly at the listener, or with the axis crossing just behind the listener's head (close to directly on-axis). Personally, I think a well designed speaker should have a flat FR directly on-axis, but also at least 15-20 degrees off-axis. This allows the FR to remain nice and neutral while at the same time giving the listener the opportunity experiment with imaging and sound stage capabilities. As far as room interaction goes, with a little effort the room can be fixed (without ruining the intended sound and tonality of the speaker). While some may disagree, the speaker cannot (without some form of re-engineering). Just my $0.02Anyway, enough about all this. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Some speakers are designed to be pointed straight ahead, some toed in to aim just behind your listening spot, and some to cross a foot or two in front of you. Most people I know listen in the sweet spot with their speakers somewhat off-axis.The higher frequencies typically cannot measure flat both on and off axis.Lin
Hey Chris,Yeah those guys were great as was Levi also. They mentioned something on LI for this weekend but I do not have nor do I see the details.
Quote from: opnly bafld on 24 Feb 2009, 01:46 amSome speakers are designed to be pointed straight ahead, some toed in to aim just behind your listening spot, and some to cross a foot or two in front of you. Most people I know listen in the sweet spot with their speakers somewhat off-axis.The higher frequencies typically cannot measure flat both on and off axis.LinNo--but they can come awfully close within a 15-20 degree window. The highs above 14 kHz will differ, but I think a lot of people would be very surprised to hear (or fail to hear) how high that is. the frequencies that will lead to a feeling of "that's too bright" or "that's about right" are more in the 8-12 kHz range.
Quote from: Nuance on 24 Feb 2009, 01:03 amIn theory yes, but when you actually listen and experiment with your proposed scenario in comparison to sitting in the "sweet spot" with the speakers pointing at your ears (or very close...say 15 degrees one way or the other), I am willing to bet the sound will be very different, especially when taking into account room interaction. Try it out and you'll see what I mean. This is why, when I speak of on-axis, I mean a person sitting in the "sweet spot" while having the speakers toed in directly at the listener, or with the axis crossing just behind the listener's head (close to directly on-axis). Personally, I think a well designed speaker should have a flat FR directly on-axis, but also at least 15-20 degrees off-axis. This allows the FR to remain nice and neutral while at the same time giving the listener the opportunity experiment with imaging and sound stage capabilities. As far as room interaction goes, with a little effort the room can be fixed (without ruining the intended sound and tonality of the speaker). While some may disagree, the speaker cannot (without some form of re-engineering). Just my $0.02Anyway, enough about all this. Back to your regularly scheduled program. So that's why it is called the sweet spot!Some speakers are designed to be pointed straight ahead, some toed in to aim just behind your listening spot, and some to cross a foot or two in front of you. Most people I know listen in the sweet spot with their speakers somewhat off-axis.The higher frequencies typically cannot measure flat both on and off axis.Edit: the sentence above was posted without thinking, as soon as I read Dennis' clarification below, I thought to myself- I know that. Thanks Dennis.Lin
The Rocket 850s were compared by Craigsub on AVSforum I believe, directly to the Songtowers. I think the 850s' won't probably be as good as the Songtowers in some respects, but the entire package price for the Rockets is extremely attractive to a lot of people. Around $2K shipped for 5.0 speakers. Depends on what you're looking for...
Quote from: cujobob on 24 Feb 2009, 01:43 amThe Rocket 850s were compared by Craigsub on AVSforum I believe, directly to the Songtowers. I think the 850s' won't probably be as good as the Songtowers in some respects, but the entire package price for the Rockets is extremely attractive to a lot of people. Around $2K shipped for 5.0 speakers. Depends on what you're looking for...In a discussion comparing speakers in a stereo setup, why would you bring up the cost of a 5.0 system? Personally, I wouldn't touch an AV123 product with a 10' pole right now (and I do have their products in my house and I do enjoy them), but that is a discussion for a different thread. George
Because value always plays a huge role in decisions like that. As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's important to compare speakers priced similarly. I don't see how cost isn't an important consideration here.
