searching for musical truth: SP Tech Timepiece 3.0

mcullinan · « **Reply #120 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 01:55 pm »

The more speakers I hear... the more special the SPTechs become. Of course I dont have them in my house as of yet, but I did borrow Chrises minis and have heard his 2.0s. They certainly do a LOT right while minimizing the errors most speakers make. I like my Merlins, and hear the tweaked box that makes them an almost romantic speaker. They are really built well with all aspects of the speaker being taken into consideration. The SP Techs are the same, though VERY different in sound.
Peace.
Mike

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #121 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 08:42 pm »

Lance- I have sent a message to Dennis, the chap with the D-Sonic brute amp. What do you propose to use for a pre?

FredT300B · « **Reply #122 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 10:51 pm »

Lance, you should join us tomorrow at the Houston Audio Society meeting. We'll be comparing a 300B SET tube amp to my D-Sonic class D, using high efficiency Daedalus speakers. See the link below for info:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonaudio/

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #123 on:** 13 Mar 2009, 11:28 pm »

Hey Fred, nice invitation. I am supposed to visit Lance at 9am and will check him out on this, too. I know he will be coming at some point. LOL.

JCC · « **Reply #124 on:** 14 Mar 2009, 12:58 am »

Quote from: targa on 13 Mar 2009, 02:46 am

good fellows, thank you for the recommendations... i will add more for sure...

the room acoustics is a bit odd... for example, if i use the certains behind the TV and cover the TV up, i hear a clear change in the soundstage and (more) details. also, yesterday i was testing out a new power conditioner and put it on the left side behind the TV, covering up that area a bit, the center image was then pulled over to the left... when i removed that conditioner, the imaged was centered again... so the front walls - behind the speakers - do have a significant impact of overall room acoustics...

I will also try the SP Tech on more powerful amps with Jim... main concern is that i may like that sound better...

more later. thanks for the inputs...

My room acoustics are also odd, with an odd shape. I handled my problem buying EightNerve Adapt series treatment. I sent Nathan a picture of the room, and he made the recommendations. I can see from your pictures that you have been struggling with the acoustics, and I can highly recommend the EigthNerve products.

targa · « **Reply #125 on:** 14 Mar 2009, 03:48 am »

good fellows, thank you for the feedback. i will look into EightNerve Adapt products. i will also try to make it to the tomorrow meeting...

i heard that Merlins speakers are excellent. i almost put in the order for the Merlins speakers over a year ago. i talked to the designer (forgot his name...) for hours but finally decided not to... no particular reason why... i think because i did not really know what "sound" i wanted...

and honestly, i did not know what accurate speakers would sound like... i have been disappointed with all my past speakers in that they can not resolve complex pieces of music. this prompted me to search for transparent/ high resolution speakers and i read about ATC speakers. I consistently read about their high resolution capability in reviews... and this high resolution was often attributed their accuracy and that was how i was looking for accurate speakers. now how i ended up with SP Tech is another (good) story and just by luck...

anyway, needless to say is that the market has many great speakers with different design principles. even if their goals are the same, different design principles (with their own compromises) lead to different outcome. one detail about SP Tech - that i was not looking for before - got my attention was their ability to play very loud w/o blowing up or losing accuracy.. i have no need for playing loud but i know that none of my past speakers can do this well..

more later... sorry need to finish up something...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #126 on:** 14 Mar 2009, 04:00 am »

targa...

Quote

..one detail about SP Tech - that i was not looking for before - got my attention was their ability to play very loud w/o blowing up or losing accuracy.. i have no need for playing loud but i know that none of my past speakers can do this well..

You'll find very few speakers that can "play" as loud, and as accurate, as an SP Tech. They just don't "break up".....

As for the EightNerve Adapt products....they may be out of business...

But ....even so....you may find them in the "used" market (Audiogon,etc.).

satfrat · « **Reply #127 on:** 14 Mar 2009, 04:03 am »

Quote from: targa on 14 Mar 2009, 03:48 am

good fellows, thank you for the feedback. i will look into EightNerve Adapt products. i will also try to make it to the tomorrow meeting...

i heard that Merlins speakers are excellent. i almost put in the order for the Merlins speakers over a year ago. i talked to the designer (forgot his name...) for hours but finally decided not to... no particular reason why... i think because i did not really know what "sound" i wanted...

and honestly, i did not know what accurate speakers would sound like... i have been disappointed with all my past speakers in that they can not resolve complex pieces of music. this prompted me to search for transparent/ high resolution speakers and i read about ATC speakers. I consistently read about their high resolution capability in reviews... and this high resolution was often attributed their accuracy and that was how i was looking for accurate speakers. now how i ended up with SP Tech is another (good) story and just by luck...

anyway, needless to say is that the market has many great speakers with different design principles. even if their goals are the same, different design principles (with their own compromises) lead to different outcome. one detail about SP Tech - that i was not looking for before - got my attention was their ability to play very loud w/o blowing up or losing accuracy.. i have no need for playing loud but i know that none of my past speakers can do this well..

more later... sorry need to finish up something...

Here ya go for 8th Nerve Adapt Rectangles and Triangles.

Cheers,
Robin

targa · « **Reply #128 on:** 15 Mar 2009, 02:01 pm »

sorry for missing the Houston Audio Society session yesterday, Fred. i want to listen to the Daedalus. Jim mentioned that he is planning on going to the next session. i will join.

Jim dropped by yesterday and we focused on tweaking my set-up. better not there yet. room acoustics is an issue still. i need to be much more serious about this room acoustic thing instead of handling this as after thought... if i knew, i could have all that taken care of at the time of building out the room (was a bonus, unfinished room above the garage).. i am looking into the recommendations posted here..

a big change made during yesterday discussion with Jim was to have the speakers set up directly pointing to the listening position. Ted mentioned this when he and i talked a while back. Russell also recommended this... the reason why i did not have them positioned as you all recommended because: 1. all other speakers i had were either straight forward (Thiel) or very slightly toed in and 2. the improved transparency of the SP Tech were to much for me to handle initially... but now, having used the TP3 for a while, i do like this more focused imaging, gives the sound more "presence"..

i continued to be impressed by the TP3. any changes i make, i can hear the effects readily.. here are few more examples..

1. i tested the effect of twisting anti-cables... i remember doing this before w/ other speakers. i could not hear any differences. with the TP3, took me 3 - 5 mins to hear the difference. according to the theory - you can read about this on their website, by twisting the cables (+ and -), the inductance is lowered - but capacitance increased (not an issue for good amps). lower inductance increases the upper end freq bandwidth of the cables. and, i indeed heard more details with twisted cables. the increased details are around little cues that tell me about the room/ environment/ ambient of the recording.. of course, my room was not perfect therefore for this test, i put my ears very close against the tweeters so eliminating my room responses.. btw - i am not too happy with the anti-cables...

2. Jim brought his DAC (Bel Canto) over for me to test against the DAC in my Blu-Ray player modified by TUC. i was able to hear differences just in 30 secs (probably because i recognized the "standard" sound of the DAC in the Blu-Ray). of course, Jim and i spent the following 5 - 10 mins confirming my initial observation which was correct. now, the difference was not day and night but i could the difference immediately. the Bel Canto was smoother, more organic, and gave more presence to the sound... a simple test confirmed that my Blu-Ray player could not possibly be better than a $23K (EMM Labs) combo as claimed by the designer. i am looking for a DAC now to use with the Blu-Ray. and seriously, the price i paid for the Blu-Ray was way too much to use it as a transport alone. no doubt, the dumbest purchase decision i made..

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #129 on:** 15 Mar 2009, 03:13 pm »

targa ...

Quote

btw - i am not too happy with the anti-cables...

Make some audio friends....and borrow a few cables to try...

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #130 on:** 15 Mar 2009, 03:23 pm »

We shortened the length of Lance's equilateral triangle by moving his chair forward in the room in addition to more toe in. In so doing his room acoustic appreciably receded and center images became more correct. I have become a fan of Melody Gardot. The singer, not the recording particularly. Enjoyed the session, Lance. Look forward to more.

Lance let me take home a power conditioner. I have never made any improvements in this direction. I put on an Ani DiFranco disc, "Up, up, up, up, up" for no other reason than it was near. This is no polished studio recording. Sounds like she is recording in a warehouse with friends. Holy shit, small details emerged from the setting that I had noticed but never with this much intelligibility and articulation. Her voice, the way she uses volume (nearly whispering at times) was clear as a bell! I could understand her every word! Other recordings benefitted as well in one way or another but that record is demo stuff. Thanks, Lance, I'm moving with no forwarding address! And thanks, Robin, for pointing me in this direction.

targa · « **Reply #131 on:** 15 Mar 2009, 10:24 pm »

lonewolfny42, good advice! will do...

Jim, am glad you like what you hear.

have been playing with the listening position, again. i kept the chair where Jim and i put it yesterday but now i moved the speakers further out to the side walls with same focus toward the listening position. this does help take my "room sound" away as much as possible - suggested by some good fellows on here. when Jim moved the chair up to where it is now the 1st time he was here and he said that he could hear the "room" of the recording better in that position... honestly, i had some doubts. today i verified that... Jim was right. damn, he knew what he was talking about the 1st time out and in just one try! it shows that some experience is needed to be able to differentiate the "listening room sound" vs the "recording room/hall sound"

i can now hear the room/hall sound of the recordings better, indeed. i played around with a CD of Renee Fleming in which she had a choir singing in the back. i could here the echos of the room/hall on that recording much better now. this translated to the feeling of "being there" at the recording event instead of having Renee Fleming joined me here in my room... really excellent!! but of course, you all - good fellows - already know this, right? if so, sorry for being redundant here... but hey, give me (and others.. who have not been there yet) a chance to discover as well...

i am now listening to a piano concert by Rubinstein (Chopin Concertos Nos 1&2). as i type the notes, i feel like am sitting in a concert hall and listening to Rubinstein. with my other set-ups and in hindsight by comparison, i feel like i was listening to this same concert standing from behind the main opened (maybe double?) door of the concert hall. but now, the feeling is that i have really entered the concert hall and sit somewhere in the middle of the hall.... it's just phenomenal...

i am sure that many of you (w/ better set-ups and experiences) get this feeling all the time, right? or have i smoked some ... ? Ted, DU, Russell and others?

many thanks, Ted, Jim, Russell and good fellows on audiocircle...! hey this is fun...

targa · « **Reply #132 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:17 am »

i listened to my system again.. the sound has really improved dramatically in the new settings. the equilateral triangle has about 8 feet on each side. the speakers are 29 inches from the side walls.

i also put 2 pillows between the listening postion and the speakers following the line of sight from my seat to damp the floor reflections even more. i can also hear improved sound, i.e. warmer, fuller..

targa · « **Reply #133 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:20 am »

Ted and all, a question about DAC. would you recommend a non-oversampling DAC or an oversampling DAC? would a non-oversampling be more natural and accurate?

ted_b · « **Reply #134 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:24 am »

Yes, the SP Tech waveguide loves to be heard straight on (meaning pointed at each ear), and with its dispersion pattern the beaming is not an issue. I have my Revs that way. I think that this somewhat severe-for-the-faint-of-heart toe-in creates image specificity that is quite extraordinary, but doesn't lose soundstage width (ok, maybe a few degrees). I'm glad your coming along, Lance.

I have little input on NOS vs OS DACs other than to say the DAC in the Modwright Transporter is very good; the new Weiss Minerva firewire DAC is incredible, and good things are being said about the Bryston and the Berkeley.

targa · « **Reply #135 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:36 am »

Ted, i just looked up the Weiss Minerva firewire DAC which has very good reviews...

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #136 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 10:11 am »

Another Saturday morning with Lance and I'm startin to get ideas. Think a Hsu sub and a Shunyata power conditioner are on my list of things. Lance is beginning to get more lifelike imagery and tone. Images have become rounder, more fleshier or saturated (i.e. purer). There more 3D distinction to them in space. It's gettin good, yo. Keep it up, dude.

targa · « **Reply #137 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 04:43 am »

good discussion w/ Jim. i am glad to hear Jim confirming the improvements made. been quite busy. however, i will publish some final comments to wrap up my review of the SP Tech TP3.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #138 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 04:50 pm »

Lance, Ted,

Have you ever experimented with aiming the waveguides so they cross slightly in front of you?
It does wonders for the stability of the image by reducing the "head in a vise" syndrome.
This capitalizes on the fact that the tonality of the speaker does not change significantly within a ±15º range off center, horizontally, but the loudness does, to our advantage.

With the axes crossed in front of you, as you move to the right from the center position as a listener you move closer to the right speaker, but at the same time move further off the right speaker's axis and closer to the axis of the left speaker, compensating to some extent for the movement. Worth a try. Looks odd, though.

I adjust toe in by leaning back from my listening position until I see the outside surfaces of the speakers, then leaning forward to make sure you have to lean further forward to see the same amount of inside surface.

You can made fine adjustments by making sure that the same amount of surface is visible L&R at any one time.

Frank S. · « **Reply #139 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 05:07 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 17 Mar 2009, 04:24 am

Yes, the SP Tech waveguide loves to be heard straight on (meaning pointed at each ear), and with its dispersion pattern the beaming is not an issue. I have my Revs that way. I think that this somewhat severe-for-the-faint-of-heart toe-in creates image specificity that is quite extraordinary, but doesn't lose soundstage width (ok, maybe a few degrees). I'm glad your coming along, Lance.

I have little input on NOS vs OS DACs other than to say the DAC in the Modwright Transporter is very good; the new Weiss Minerva firewire DAC is incredible, and good things are being said about the Bryston and the Berkeley.

I agree Ted. That's how I have my Continuums firing as well (probably just slightly less of "straight on"). It actually worked out quite well because I just got the home theater up and running again and I'm contemplating a 115" wide 2.35 screen and had to push the speakers out a little further and compensated with more toe-in. Sounds great. Time to order the screen............