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Quote from: satfrat on 9 Feb 2009, 06:18 pmQuote from: macrojack on 9 Feb 2009, 04:25 pmIf we stop kidding ourselves about these things being sports and acknowledge that they are businesses just like Enron and Goldman-Sachs, then everything they do makes more sense and instigates our sense of outrage in a more appropriate way. Nothing sacred has been violated. This is just American capitalism doing its thing. As long as money remains our top priority, all other values will suffer subjugation.I disagree bigtime. The fact A-Rod failed a steroid test in 2003 isn't as big a dea for me as it was A-Fraud's outright nationwide lie on TV about on his never using steroids. Unless you feel a man's word isn't "sacred" anymore macrojack then indeed A-Fraud needs to atone for blatantly lying to the American public on a national forum and violating their trust in him,,, if indeed there was any trust to begin with.. Cheers,RobinI agree that integrity is big. However, why did he cheat? Money is certainly on the list. Why did he lie about it? Money again would be on the list (endorsements, salary). Why did owners and Selig turn a blind eye? Money.
Quote from: macrojack on 9 Feb 2009, 04:25 pmIf we stop kidding ourselves about these things being sports and acknowledge that they are businesses just like Enron and Goldman-Sachs, then everything they do makes more sense and instigates our sense of outrage in a more appropriate way. Nothing sacred has been violated. This is just American capitalism doing its thing. As long as money remains our top priority, all other values will suffer subjugation.I disagree bigtime. The fact A-Rod failed a steroid test in 2003 isn't as big a dea for me as it was A-Fraud's outright nationwide lie on TV about on his never using steroids. Unless you feel a man's word isn't "sacred" anymore macrojack then indeed A-Fraud needs to atone for blatantly lying to the American public on a national forum and violating their trust in him,,, if indeed there was any trust to begin with.. Cheers,Robin
If we stop kidding ourselves about these things being sports and acknowledge that they are businesses just like Enron and Goldman-Sachs, then everything they do makes more sense and instigates our sense of outrage in a more appropriate way. Nothing sacred has been violated. This is just American capitalism doing its thing. As long as money remains our top priority, all other values will suffer subjugation.
Two questions:...2. When will the media spend this much time and effort investigating the fraud and cheating on Wall Street that is ruining this country?
Let's stay with A-Fraud or A-Roid. Wall Street fraud will just get this thread binned.
I agree that integrity is big. However, why did he cheat? Money is certainly on the list. Why did he lie about it? Money again would be on the list (endorsements, salary). Why did owners and Selig turn a blind eye? Money.
Quote from: maxwalrath on 9 Feb 2009, 06:33 pmI agree that integrity is big. However, why did he cheat? Money is certainly on the list. Why did he lie about it? Money again would be on the list (endorsements, salary). Why did owners and Selig turn a blind eye? Money.Max - go read 'Freakonomics' by Economist Steven Levitt. He'd probably find that the observed frequency of cheating appears to respond strongly to relatively minor changes in incentives AND that it is the threat of punishment (ranging from loss of income to jailtime) that would provide further incentive to stop cheating. MLB has been sweeping something under the rug and the whole lot of them need to pay to piper now with dismissals or jail time...not just the 100+ drug cheats. The management and owners are as much to blame as the players as they tacitly endorsed the juicing by not stopping it in the first place.
Nomar?Manny?Trot?I would be sad if Papi did but you never know...
Robin/satfrat, I know you love to take Yankee shots whenever the opportunity arises (and good natured 'grinding' zybar/George a bit, too in the process ), but as the full contents of that 100+ men who were juiced in 2003 are not yet known....you might want to consider that one or more prominent BOSOX players are on there, too. BOSOX went a purdy 95-and-67 that year, a none too shabby .586 winning percentage. The next year, with much the same roster, they tellingly won their 1st championship since 1918. I highly suspect more than one prominent BOSOX player will be on the 2003 steroid user list when it is fully known.Manny and Ortiz are unusually large sized creatures, ain't they? aaSo, I wouldn't be so smug to point a finger at A-Rod alone...the issue is systemic and much closer to home John
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3894963&categoryid=2521705I think he is sincere.
I'm a Yankee fan but no fan of A-Rod at all . The guy is a cancer on the team and is totally classless . I've never seen a star of such magnitude choke so many times in crucial games and situations . He's been a complete flop in the playoffs . Joe Torre was wrong to bat him eighth in a playoff game ... he should have had him in the ninth position or on the bench . He can't hit the good pitchers at all . When he homers it's usually with no one on base with his team way ahead or way behind so it really dosen't make much difference on the outcome of the game . He fattens up his stats almost totally on mediocre or rookie pitchers . The guy is a loser but acts like a prima donna . Failing a steroid test and lying about taking them is icing on the cake . Then only to admit it AFTER he got caught . I'll take Scott Brosius over A-Rod any day . End of rant .
