Not another turntable!!!!!!!

Wayner · « **on:** 6 Feb 2009, 07:29 pm »

Yes, that's right. Now I have seemed to have acquired another table. This one is very interesting! It's a table made by United Audio (Deutches United Audio, Limited), or DUAL (I believe was the abbreviations), and the model is the 1215.

This is a table that features the very interesting rim drive! If you remove the turntable, you will discover the usual motor drive, but it doesn't have pulleys. It insted, has a "friend" that is a large rubber rim drive coupler. The motor drive contacts the rim drive, which supplies motion to the inner rim of the platter.

The underside is a mechanical engineers heaven with a maze of linkages and moving mechanisms. I love this kind of shit! Well, it was in a garage attic for a time and needs a little TLC on contacts and things like that. But with no work at all, we have the platter spinning at a nice even speed. The first record played in stereo, but lost one channel soon after, just due to corrosion of contacts. The table is probably at least 35 years old...give it a break. Anyway, nice walnut base, topside is almost perfect. A fun restoration project to get me thru the rest of the winter!

Wayner

BobM · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 07:51 pm »

My first real TT was a DUAL 1225. Noisy as hell though. Prior to that I had some cheapo TT that I had to fabricate a counterweight for, using a lead fishing weight.

Anyway, brings back memories.

Bob

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 08:09 pm »

Bob,

I think this is the same table my next door dorm buddy had in college. He didn't have the best receiver, but I thought the deck was pretty OK. But not as good as my AR.

Wayner

lofreek · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 08:25 pm »

My first good TT was a Dual 1216. One weakness of the Duals of this era is the removable cartridge mount. There are four spring loaded pins on the cartridge mount which are supposed to mate with four contacts on a small circuit board located at the end of the armtube. This little PC board can easily be moved out of alignment, or the contacts oxidize, or the springs don't provide sufficient pressure. I ended up hardwiring around it. Not pretty, but it worked.

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 08:30 pm »

I'm going thru that right now! But i am cleaning up the contacts and think I can save the original design. Empire had the same technique and it had problems as well, but used better materials and seemed to be less of a problem.

Wayner.

doug s. · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 08:57 pm »

these turntables suck big-time, imho. one of the happiest days of my life up to that point, was when i literally threw my dual 1229 turntable into a dumpster. it never really worked right, starting less than a year after i bought it; and, since the $50 belt drive p.o.s. plastic pioneer that replaced it was so much better, in all regards - pitch definition, detail, you name it - tossing the 1229 into the dumpster was a truly pleasurable act.

ymmv,

doug s.

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 09:16 pm »

Thanks Doug,.......................

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 09:23 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 6 Feb 2009, 09:16 pm

Thanks Doug,.......................

no problem - i am familiar w/that one, too - my 'rents had one. yust trying to save ya some time, and (more) money...

doug s.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 12:35 am »

Quote from: doug s. on 6 Feb 2009, 08:57 pm

tossing the 1229 into the dumpster was a truly pleasurable act.

I threw my Sumiko (original) Blue Point vdH into the wall at probably 40mph for fear that I'd try to sell it to someone in a less enlightened moment. It was soooo incredibly bad sounding. So, I understand how you could feel good tossing something in the dumpster.

Wayner - are you back at 7 tables? aa

John

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 01:32 am »

Well, if I count tables that are complete, I'd have to say 6. There have been several that have gotten the ax.

W

PMAT · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 02:23 am »

Talk about great feedback! This thread took a hard left and I love it. I once took a 12Ga shotgun to a TV I hated. It was so pleasurable that I relish the thought to this day. Hey John, how about a bay area audio destruction fest.

Can't call it a shootout though

We could film it and put it on U-tube!

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 02:28 am »

Quote from: PMAT on 7 Feb 2009, 02:23 am

Talk about great feedback! This thread took a hard left and I love it. I once took a 12Ga shotgun to a TV I hated. It was so pleasurable that I relish the thought to this day. Hey John, how about a bay area audio destruction fest. Can't call it a shootout though We could film it and put it on U-tube!

yes, i still think w/pleasure about tossing that 1229 into the dumpster!

re: the sumiko blue point special i once owned, i never realized how bad it was until i replaced it w/an ortofon mc-25fl...

doug s.

Danberg · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 02:58 am »

I also purchased a DUAL 1216 turntable after my 1st year in college. I didn't want to ruin (scratch) my record collection with a "poor" quality turntable. Looking up the 1971 retail price, converting it to today's dollars, today would cost $827. A pretty hefty sum for a college kid, unless very serious about his music!

orthobiz · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 10:12 pm »

My first was a 1215S. Replaced it with a Beogram 3000, then the Linn LP12 I have to this day.

Is there a difference between the regular 1215 and an "S"??????
Maybe the S is for Sport and it's more racy?

Yours has a better base...

Paul

hayseed · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 04:26 am »

Quote from: orthobiz on 7 Feb 2009, 10:12 pm

....
Is there a difference between the regular 1215 and an "S"??????
Maybe the S is for Sport and it's more racy?....Paul

According to the Dual Reference website ( http://dual-reference.com/tableinx.htm ) the 1215S was released slightly before the 1215 and cost $20 more. The 1215 (the cheaper one) had a heavier platter and slightly better wow/flutter and rumble specs.

If there are other differences they are in more detailed specifications than posted there.

lcrim · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 07:41 am »

The turntable in my bedroom system is a Dual CS5000. It is very nice and polite sounding and is in mint condition. I added a Goldring Eroica LX Cartridge (LOMC) because the stock arm is low mass and the Eroica is only 5.5 gms and is fairly high compliance. Mine also has an Isoplatmat.
It has a belt driven and quartz controlled motor with three speeds (33, 45, 78 rpm), made in Germany around 1987. It also has auto shut off, so when I fall out, I don't have to worry about it chewing up the stylus running around all night.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 01:59 pm »

I missed the whole DUAL era of turntables originally. I'm 46...but, the time I was prime turntable age, my mid-fi choices were all pretty much Japanese. DUAL wasn't even on my periphery as a potential brand in the late 70's when this disease took over

But, I was given a non-functioning 1229 to have....it was beyond my capability to put it back together (those idlers are some Rube Goldberg contraptions to stare at

), so I sent it in for repair to a DUAL specialist. He gave me various choices - and I bought a fully refurbed DUAL 701 direct drive instead.

When I got it, it wasn't that great...but application of constrained layer damping to the plastic plinth underside and a few dots on the tonearm improved that deck sonically more than any time I've used constrained layer damping on a deck (and I've tried it many times). I also added a ($95) heavier walnut base and added a lb or 2 of plasticlay. Between all these small tweeks that deck played really well - really, it blew my mind how far it came from the stock version.

The 701 had an enormous DD motor...simply a work of art it was and really silent.

I think those DUAL's have potential (including the idlers)...add some mass to the base and constrained layer damping to the plastic underside and tonearm (tune the tonearm to taste...there is a point where it is overdamped...that point is different for all)

I think they look real dowdy (not the CS5000 & 7000...those are/were quite fetching), but the performance potential seems to be there if you chip away at it.

John

orthobiz · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 02:52 pm »

Quote from: hayseed on 14 Feb 2009, 04:26 am

Quote from: orthobiz on 7 Feb 2009, 10:12 pm
....
Is there a difference between the regular 1215 and an "S"??????
Maybe the S is for Sport and it's more racy?....Paul

According to the Dual Reference website ( http://dual-reference.com/tableinx.htm ) the 1215S was released slightly before the 1215 and cost $20 more. The 1215 (the cheaper one) had a heavier platter and slightly better wow/flutter and rumble specs.

If there are other differences they are in more detailed specifications than posted there.

Thanks for the site. Yup, that's the 1215S alright! Looks like I've had the sickness of audio for nearly 40 years...

Oh, and Wayner's looks more like the "S" model.

Paul

doug s. · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 07:40 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 14 Feb 2009, 01:59 pm

...I think those DUAL's have potential (including the idlers)...add some mass to the base and constrained layer damping to the plastic underside and tonearm (tune the tonearm to taste...there is a point where it is overdamped...that point is different for all)

I think they look real dowdy (not the CS5000 & 7000...those are/were quite fetching), but the performance potential seems to be there if you chip away at it.

re: the idler decks, don't waste your time "chipping away at it". no performance potential there...

doug s.

Wayner · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Feb 2009, 07:58 pm »

Being very bored today I went on ick-bay and low and behold, no one was bidding on this poor little direct drive from ADC, the ADC-1600, so I snatched it up for a mere $46 dollars. The seller had a 100% positive rating and said the table seen little use and was like new, with original box and manual.

This one is semi-automatic so it will be the new garage table this spring.

Wayner