Is one phono input enough?

Wayner · « **on:** 6 Feb 2009, 05:11 pm »

Maybe I'm the unique one here in these circles, but do any of you wish there were more phono inputs? Do you have more than one turntable or does your table have multiple arms? I'm constantly switching out cables. Anyone else?

Wayner

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 05:41 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 6 Feb 2009, 05:11 pm

Maybe I'm the unique one here in these circles, but do any of you wish there were more phono inputs? Do you have more than one turntable or does your table have multiple arms? I'm constantly switching out cables. Anyone else?

I briefly used two separate turntables, and I made a switchbox using a rotary switch salvaged from a PAT 4. I was initially concerned with noise but it did not turn out to be a problem.

Brett

Tone Depth · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 06:25 pm »

Two other thoughts:
1. If you have a spare set of high level inputs, could you possibly rewire them to the phono preamp circuits, unless this creates other problems?
2. If you have a spare set of high level inputs, you could use a separate phono preamp connected to the spare inputs.

avahifi · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 06:56 pm »

I am not happy with the thought of switching the low level signals from the phono cartridge ahead of the RIAA phono section.

But in the Insight preamlifiers, because the phono card is space efficient, we could actually install two of them and wire two sets of phono inputs dedicated for phono use. The cost would be that of an additional phono option, $199. Of course we cannot offer a satisfaction guarantee on custom equipment. We could offer an Insight phono board as a second phono option on our Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamp or Ultra Hybrid preamps too (or even as a first option instead of the standard tube and or tube/hybird phono section at $299). I have actually done a couple of T8 vacuum tube preamps with the Insight solid state phono section instead of the vacuum tube phono section and they worked out very well indeed.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 07:10 pm »

Thanks Frank, and thus I do understand the problem. There is such tremendous gain on phono inputs that multiples will just add to the noise factor. I actually have owned 2 pieces of older audio equipment from the 1970's that had 2 phono inputs, one a Marantz 2385 and the other, a Kenwood KR-6600. Of course, they are/were not at the performance level of AVA.

Wayner

Brett Buck · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Feb 2009, 11:59 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 6 Feb 2009, 06:56 pm

I am not happy with the thought of switching the low level signals from the phono cartridge ahead of the RIAA phono section.

I was a little concerned about it too, but I tried it in every combination and could not tell the difference.

Brett

jrtrent · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 11:09 am »

I've been fortunate in having preamps with multiple phono inputs. My Linn LK1, before it died, could accept a moving coil and a moving magnet. My OmegaStar PAT-5 has two moving magnet phono inputs. With my present space limitations, I have only one turntable connected, but being able to connect two has been a nice feature, and I'm planning how to re-arrange things to make room for both my new Well Tempered Record Player and older Linn LP12. Three phono inputs might be nice if I ever want to get into collecting 78's again.

boycephoto · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 12:59 pm »

Good morning Wayner,

One is enough for me. I have a Linn LP12/Ittock LVII/Denon DL103D combination. In the late 70's and early 80's I did have two different tables at the same time (the Linn and a Denon DP6000/SMEIII/Grado Sig. 7) and tried several different pre-amps that had multiple phono inputs, I was also using my original Super PAS that has only one, and for most of the time I was happy with one.

I' bet Frank could make it happen for you!

I am new to Audio Circle but have been an avid AVA client since 1979. It is interesting to see where everyone else is with their systems. I started with a pair of modified Dynaco MKIII's (when Frank still worked on them) and a Super PAS, next a AVA Stereo 70, on to a Super PAS 3, Omega II CD player, Omega III EC, a pair of Super 70i's, Stereo 120D, Omega III 440h, Fet Valve DAC, Updates on the Omega III's to OmegaStar EC and EXH, and finally a Ultimate 70. I am thinking of a second Ultimate 70. I have been around the block.
So there's my history story, and yes, one phono input is good enough for me.

Dave

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 01:51 pm »

Good morning Dave!

I know Frank has big concerns running wires all the way back to the sector switch and then back to the phono section. The current design has the inputs going directly to the phono card and then to the input selector, delivering a higher signal level just as the other line level inputs.

I am thinking of making a small external switch box that I can hook 3 tables up to. I'd need 8 RCA input jacks, three ground wire connections and some way to switch inputs by either a selector switch or with individual switches. Of course, the crappy Radio Crap store in this town carries solder and one drawer of parts. I guess not too many people do DIYs anymore, at least not around here. Most of the components are of such poor quality anyway. I'll have to go hunting in my Digikey catalog.

Wayner

mark funk · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 04:14 pm »

For me none is enough. Last year I gave my old turn table (Kenwood KD 500) which had been packed up for over 20 years to a guy at work and sold my arm (SME 3009 MK.III) and all the cartridges and stuff to a guy here at the AudioCircle for $50 bucks. Back in the mid 80s I gave up on HiFi for about 10 years. Then one day in 94 I dug the set out and set it up, when I got to the TT I said I don't want to play around with TTs any more (I guess I never could get the SME set up right?) so I got a Denon CDP and gave the set another try. Well that did not sound too good, so another 10 years and a lot of dust I said let's try this one more time. I started with a T-5 and two months later a 550 and this little black box called Transcendence DAC. I did not know what the hell a DAC was, but it was said to make CDs sound better so I got one too. I never knew a CD could sound like that. I guess I got it right this time, I can listen for hours

.

Wayner · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 04:39 pm »

I have been informed that AVA preamps (Insight, Ultra) can accomodate 2 phono input cards. This is good news! I doubt Frank has too many customers ask for this, but another AC'r PM'd me about this very topic. He must have the record (8 tables, soon to be 9)! Hopefully we don't start collecting cats!

I believe because of the nature of the high gain, this multiple input wish is a very difficult task. Personally, I like to listen to different tables from time to time. I just could never see myself owning just one turntable. Perhaps I fear that it may break-down and I always will have a back-up (so I have 6).

Just a vinylphool.

Wayner

martyo · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 05:38 pm »

Hey Wayne, I think I once saw a picture of some Martin-Logans of yours and I again think I saw on another thread somewhere recently you mention them, do you still have 'em? I can't seem to find them in your sig. Maybe you don't list all your speakers, the same way you don't list all your TT's.

If you still have them, what do you drive 'em with?

I apoligize for the thread hijack.

Wayner · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 06:09 pm »

I still have them. They are in my "surround" system out in the main room. Vinyl is off limits there as there is zero room for a table. I use a Sunfire II amp to power these bad boys. I bought that before I knew Frank had a big amp that would go low in impedance. If the Sunfire blows, I would replace it with a Ultra Double 550EXH. The Sunfire II is a good amp and most ML owners have paired the combination up for years.

They require a large room to perform well. The room is 32' x 28'. I also have a AR/Sunfire 12" subwoofer (downward firing) and 2 surround speakers. NO CENTER CHANNEL... The Sony E9000ES preamp can put a phantom center channel in using the left and right speakers and you can adjust the volume of the imaginary speaker. Total system power: 1,100 watts RMS.

Wayner

boycephoto · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 06:14 pm »

I have a similar phobia about needing back up equipment but, not with turntables, it's amplifiers and speakers, I am on overload. Yet I have not blown a tweeter or speaker fuse since 1972. it's a sickness. Even though I have tons of equipment, listening is my real passion.

Franks idea of 2 phono boards makes real sense. That is what I would do if I had the need.

Good luck
Dave

orthobiz · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 09:46 pm »

How about with 8 inputs, have ONE called "Phono."

Since the phono is installed there, we already know we're "Special."

lol, Frank...

Paul

martyo · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Feb 2009, 11:05 pm »

Oh WOW.

Very very nice Wayne.

gjs_cds · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Feb 2009, 12:09 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 7 Feb 2009, 06:09 pm

The Sunfire II is a good amp and most ML owners have paired the combination up for years.
Wayner

Wayner--I did *not* know that you were an electrostatic guy! Out of all your systems, which one is your fav and why? (Amps excluded--just the speakers. And I know this is an apples/oranges question--but do your best.)

I've always wanted to hear some MLs to compare them to my Acoustats...

Ever hook up the AVAs to the MLs?

bmckenney · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Feb 2009, 10:20 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 6 Feb 2009, 06:56 pm

We could offer an Insight phono board as a second phono option on our Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamp or Ultra Hybrid preamps too (or even as a first option instead of the standard tube and or tube/hybird phono section at $299). I have actually done a couple of T8 vacuum tube preamps with the Insight solid state phono section instead of the vacuum tube phono section and they worked out very well indeed.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Frank, I suggest you state that on your preamp info pages. If I had of known that I could have had the T8 phono AND the Insight phono both I would have opted for it. I would have done that instead of just the Insight phono. The more options us customers know we have called right out on the web pages, the better off we are IMO. At least thats the way I feel. I'm sure I'll be quite happy with my customized version, but what if one day I wanted a different flavour of phono, all I'd have to do is swap inputs and hit the switch. Damn, that would be nice.

Bryan

rcag_ils · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Feb 2009, 12:09 am »

I too, echo bmckenney about stating the options on the website info pages. I didn't know about the double phono boards option until I read the forum. Also many other small changes, prices, dyna fm5 upgrade were announced here, and nowhere to be found on the equipment info pages. Almost like keeping it for the private club members.

bmckenney · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Feb 2009, 12:28 am »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 9 Feb 2009, 12:09 am

I too, echo bmckenney about stating the options on the website info pages. I didn't know about the double phono boards option until I read the forum. Also many other small changes, prices, dyna fm5 upgrade were announced here, and nowhere to be found on the equipment info pages. Almost like keeping it for the private club members.

Maybe there are reasons why options aren't published on the web pages.

Bryan