[wilsynet]

Just purchased a JVC QL-Y66F and I'm now looking for a phono stage.

Cable length from phono stage to line stage is likely going to be about 25 feet.  Not sure if that's considered a long run or not.

I'm considering one of the following, but recommendations are also welcome.

Jolida JD-9A
Pro-Ject Tube Box II
Dynavector P-75
Musical Surroundings Phonomena II
Clearaudio Basic Plus

Thanks!

[andyr]

Just purchased a JVC QL-Y66F and I'm now looking for a phono stage.

Cable length from phono stage to line stage is likely going to be about 25 feet.  Not sure if that's considered a long run or not.

I'm considering one of the following, but recommendations are also welcome.

Jolida JD-9A
Pro-Ject Tube Box II
Dynavector P-75
Musical Surroundings Phonomena II
Clearaudio Basic Plus

Thanks!

Haven't heard any of the phono stages you mention but the DV P-75 seems to get a lot of press - all of it positive! 

You might also like to consider the EAR?  A friend of mine has one and rates it on a par with the phono stage which I have - which he also has (which is no longer available).

Now, re. a 25 feet IC from phono stage to line stage ... this shouldn't be a problem but you have to select the cable well.

It's just an "ordinary" line-level IC, so as long as the Zin of your line stage is >10x the Zout of whichever phono stage you choose (preferably >50), you should be OK.     So find out the Zin of your line stage ... which, if it is low, might define which phono stage you should go for! 

It's capacitance which causes problems with long ICs (and 25' is long ... so you need a low-capacitance IC).  But if the Zin/Zout ratio is high, capacitance is not so much of a problem.

Just for comparison, the line-level IC which I have between pre and active XOs is about 10pF/ft - which is looow!  ... and they're 35' long!  But my ratio of Zin/Zout is about 800! 

Regards,

Andy

[2gumby2]

I recommend Bel Canto  www.belcantodesign.com  I never knew my LP collection could sound so good until I experienced a Bel Canto phono stage. I started buying LPs again after years of only buying CDs. 

[ecramer]

there's two rogue audio phono stages for sale on audio circle now  good stuff

[TheChairGuy]

A good phono stage will improve your experience...and all of them listed as vinylphool faves....but have you considered simplifying your setup and buying an integrated amp or receiver /full function with phono?

You don't list your system anywhere, but note that it's a 25' run from TT to line stage (eek!).  Long runs like that are best for speaker cable runs (high level, fully boosted signals) where you can just buy larger gauge wire to make up for the losses at those distances.

Unless you are running (balanced) XLR's between your phono and line stage, you will lose lotsa' signal along the way - as you have what seems to be a large room already, and vinyl is dynamically challenged next to CD in larger rooms, you need to preserve all teh signal you can to make your experience a great one

Vinyl is already so complex vis-a-vis CD....feeble cartridge voltages that grow ever more feeble along long lengths of transmission line, signal boosting within the phono stage introduces large amounts of noise, RIAA equalization itself creates all sorts of non-linearities....that your best hope to contradict this trend is keeping it simple.

The Pioneer Elite SX-A9-J is a throwback 2 channel receiver now on the market that I have bought for $750.00 (right in line re: cost with your phono stage choices).  It is fully dual mono right back to dual toriods....something fantastically helpful with vinyl.  It has built in AM/FM, line stage and Phono (MM@47K loading and MC@100ohm loading).  As well, it has a 'direct' function that omits tone controls and lighting for the purest playback possible.  It is a fantastic piece for the money...and has full remote, too.  The binding posts are thick and chunky - they can probably handle garden hose 6ga back there if you need.

I use it as a tuner/preamp myself....handing off via (RCA) IC's to mono amps.  But, its 55 watts/8 ohm is sufficient in my room.  As your room seems 25' long, you may want/need more powerful amp(s), so you can run 25' IC to your amps this way.  At least you are running a signal from your TT only a few feet to your Receiver...where the signal is boosted thru the full phono (generally 36-40db for high output moving coils as you have on your JVC) and line stage (12-18db or so) without introducing another boosting stage into the chain.

I'm no Pioneer pimp, I'm just a very satisfied user/owner of the piece.  There may well be other receivers and integrateds that would work, too (Music Hall Maven, The Outlaw Audio receiver, some of H-K's two channel receiver line...lotsa' Brit and other integrateds).  But, few have MC capability if you later want to try your hand at it, and noen that I know of are dual mono right back to the toroids (the old Harman-Kardon Twin Powered receiver line from the 70's was, tho)

With your 25' setup, if you have efficient speakers, you might be overall best with using the onboard 55 watt amp and running garden hose 6-10ga speaker wiring between the Pioneer/speakers and bypassing your amps, too.

Think SIMPLE whenever you can with vinyl...and the payoffs will be great indeed 

I just noticed you are a local to me...I'm in So. Marin....so help is nearby if you need (on the new JVC deck, in particular, I mean)

John

[fsimms]

I recommend the Dodd phono preamp.  It destroyed the Ear and was a good bit better than my Minimax.  You would need a separate SUT to do low output MC's though.  I am not sure if there is anything out there that can beat it.

Bob

[JCC]

I own a Wright Sound WPP200C. These are only sold direct from www.wright-sound.com. I purchased it about 3 years ago after a significant amount of research. I'm very happy with the unit, and give it high recommendations.

I also own a PS Audio moving coil stepup transformer which I had updated by Stan Warren. The combination of these two units is outstanding, and I can only attest to the high quality sound from my LP playback.

[wilsynet]

I'm using a RWA Isabella line stage, a RWA 30.2 amplifier, and Zu Druids.  The line stage has a 50Kohm input impedance, the amplifier is 30wpc, and the Druids are 101 db efficient.

The room is only 10' x 12', but running the ICs along the wall takes me to about 20', and I want another 5' of slack.  I don't have room for a turntable beside the rest of my gear, and want to locate it diagonally from the main stereo rack.

The 25' length would run between the phono stage and the line stage, so only line level going out that way.  I think the cartridge voltages should be okay, as the length between the turntable and the phono stage would only be 3 or 4 feet, perhaps even less.  That should be good right?

I love my current linestage dearly, and don't think I'd want to give it up ...

You know, I didn't even know that Dodd made a phono stage.  I should give him a call and see what the pricing is on that.

[TheChairGuy]

The 25' length would run between the phono stage and the line stage, so only line level going out that way.  I think the cartridge voltages should be okay, as the length between the turntable and the phono stage would only be 3 or 4 feet, perhaps even less.  That should be good right?

Well, maybe ....the TT to the phono stage would be 3' away and your boosting it 35-40db.  Good. But, you're then asking your 80% boosted signal (pre-linestage) to go 25' for that last 12-20db applied at the line....and THEN on to your amp, and then to your speakers.

It's a pretty long chain, all in all...lotsa' poison rca jacks to hop feeble voltages over.

Again, I am not pimping the Pioneer specifically, but the  MM section (which you need for now...the MC section not quite as good) is likely as good as any in the <$1000 range.  It can be used as a standalone, tuner/full functioned preamp or all-in-one receiver.  It's got preamp out and amp in jacks for full versatility.  It's amazingly diverse tool to have...once you have it you may decide, on your own time, which lineup works best for you.

Vinyl loves simplicity.  There is definitely something to be said for a enhancing ones enjoyment with a great phono stage, but at least among those you listed...they are very, very good....not superb and would likely not better a simpler set-up.

I run against the established grain on this one today/2009.....but I'm fairly sure others, once they try it, will come to this way of thinking (that is, simple)

John

[JCC]

I found the reference that turned me on to the WPP200C. There waw a mini-review at Arthur Salvatore's High End Audio site (http://www.high-endaudio.com which stated the following:

"I just purchased a phono stage from Wright Sound and I have to tell you it is the best sounding phono section I have ever heard. It is the WPP200c. It comes with volume pots so I am running it straight into my VAC 80/80 and getting fantastic results. I have owned, in my time, the following; Mod Squad EPS, Counterpoint 5000, EAR 824p, conrad-johnson PV9, 10, 11, Audio Research SP9, PH3, and the Linn Linto (What a disaster! I could not believe the rave reviews it got). This little Wright out does all of them in one way or another. I don't know if you are familiar with his products. I read a review in Listener back in 2002 and always kept it in the back of my head. Wright does offer a 15 day trial. These units are hard wired and made in Kent, Washington." (2/05)

There was also a Listener Magazine review by Art Dudley, but I can’t find it. 

That aside, after having lived with the WPP200C for some years, I have to agree with the above comments. This thing is fantastic once everything is properly setup. I found the pre-preamp was very useful especially for low output moving coil cartridges. The pre-preamp gets rid of tube rush and helped a great deal.

[doug s.]

i owned a linn kairn preamp w/built-in fono stage, and it was so much better than the musical surroundings phonomena i auditioned, it wasn't even close.  (so i am surprised the linn linto didn't get a more favorable showing for you, jcc.)  i have not heard the latest phonomena, so i dunno if it's worthwhile to try it.  but, in this particular case, w/a 25' run, i would definitely give the jolida jd-9a a try.  besides its getting phenomenal rewiews, it has huge gain, which should make driving a 25' cable run a snap...

doug s.

[JCC]

i owned a Linn Kairn preamp w/built-in fono stage, and it was so much better than the musical surroundings phonomena i auditioned, it wasn't even close.  (so i am surprised the Linn linto didn't get a more favorable showing for you, jcc.)  i have not heard the latest phonomena, so i dunno if it's worthwhile to try it.  but, in this particular case, w/a 25' run, i would definitely give the jolida jd-9a a try.  besides its getting phenomenal reviews, it has huge gain, which should make driving a 25' cable run a snap...

doug s.

For the record (as was stated above) that information came from High End Audio and not from me. It was someone else's evaluation. I can only say that I love the Wright. It also has a pretty good price ($825), and up to 60DB gain. You can also find multiple additional positive comments on AudioAsylum.

[TONEPUB]

running 25 feet of interconnect from your phono preamp to your preamp is not the best
combination for great sound.  Few phono preamps can drive a long run of cables like that.

Keep both tt to phono pre and phono pre to pre as short as you can.

[wilsynet]

I've decided on the Jolida JD-9A.  It will be fun to do some tube rolling with it, and to get some acoustic dampening material.  I can try replacing the caps on it later too.  Perhaps the Jolida won't be the best choice, but it's priced well enough that if I decide I don't like it, I won't take a big loss if I re-sell.

OK.  25' is too long.  Is 25' too long for speaker cable?  I can re-locate the bulk of the gear to another location in the room, but would prefer not to move the speakers.  If 25' is too long for speaker cable, I guess I'll get a little more creative ...

[TheChairGuy]

25' of speaker cable is better than 25' of interconnect (IMO)

The signal has already been fully boosted thru preamp and amp stages when you hand off to the speaker.....RF and EM issues are less of a concern and you can buy larger gauge wire to make up for the signal losses along 25' path.

With an IC, it only comes one gauge (the way the maker made it - generally 22ga or so), and is very much prone to EM and RF issues along it's long lengths (helped by shielding techniques, but never fully eradicated).  You cannot specify larger gauge...fidelity suffers with larger gauge wire and interconnects.

When a choice can be made, choose shorter IC's and longer speaker cable.  I have read some audiophools prefer it the other way around....but I cannot wrap my brain around any other but the obvious electrical realities of IC vs. speaker cable to recommend anything else.  But, ultimately again, what sounds best to you IS best

Enjoy, John

[royphil345]

I've always heard longer interconnects are preferable to longer speaker cables and that's why monoblocks are generally placed near the speakers?...

Anyway... Congrats on the Jolida! I've had one for awhile now and it's still making me happy. I've rolled a lot of tubes (mostly new production types) in it and right now it seems to be a tossup between the Electro Harmonix Gold Pins and the New Sensor "Mullard reissues" for "best". Don't let the stock Chinese tubes scare you. My JD-9A sounded a bit "gritty" in the highs, so-so extension at the high and low frequency extremes and a little bright overall until I changed the tubes.

EDIT: I think the New Sensor "Mullard reissues" have won. I'm getting a better focus and more stabile soundstage than I was getting with some of the other tubes I tried. Cleaner mids, with just enough warmth to keep things pleasant.

[twitch54]

running 25 feet of interconnect from your phono preamp to your preamp is not the best
combination for great sound.  Few phono preamps can drive a long run of cables like that.

Keep both tt to phono pre and phono pre to pre as short as you can.

total agreement with Jeff on this, my shortest run is from tt to phono-pre, next shortest is from phono-pre to pre.

While my run from my pre to my monoblocks is not short (10') it is accomplished through balanced (xlr) IC's, which, IMO is the way to go if one is running IC's of any great length.

[Jose Garcia]

I use a modified Aragon 47K with my JVC QL-Y66F. The cable from the JVC is 1m and the other from phono to pre is 1m either.

The poser supply for my phono stage is retire as far as can allow thought.

Jose

[lizner]

Based on personal experience, I agree that a long run of speaker cable is the way to go.

Suggest the use of THHN 10 gauge copper cable available at DIY/building supply stores for as little as 15 cents a foot for your long run of speaker wire.

A dealer that sells uber expensive gear told me about it. The only other wire he has found that is better costs over $100 per foot. 

[billc]

JCC mentions the Wright Sound WPP200C.  I also use this phono stage in my system, with a step up transformer (SUT) from Bill Baker.  It is an excellent phono stage and a listen is recommended.  The price was quoted by JCC at $895, but note that George Wright has a special at present and is sellilng these for $750.  A very attractive price, and close to what I paid second-hand. 

I also recently has an opportunity to evaluate Bill Baker's new phono stage (Bella Phono - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64551.msg588247#msg588247) , and found it to be a great phono stage, especially for the price. 

Bill C