[TheChairGuy]

   P9 in the house with Dyna xx2 and 1210 M5G with Benz micro,with no mods yet.new prices taken into consideration,the Rega with cart is 6 times the money.i will tell you straight,right here,right now,get the Technics,can you say 'kick-ass-value'....  'kiss' applies here,for starter decks you can't beat the Tech

Value...I think that says it all with the Technics.  It's a helluva' US$500 table and can be improved with another $500 to a really good table.  But, whether it's the servo/feedback system or rubber base (which I think it is), I believe it to be great value, but not a slayer of giants.

Scratch n Dent at Musicians Friend and it's under $400 http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=807053X
 
Nonetheless, it's ultra reliable, not finicky, very durable...these things count for a lot when one spends hard-earned dollars on something.

Wayner, I kinda' agree with you above...but, from a different direction. You certainly do hear differences in cartridge types on the SL-1200.....the Grado tends toward dark/warm and the AT bright/upper treble emphasis.  But, I've yet to hear a plastic bodied Grado that did well on non-fluid (or magnetic) damped arms...and replacing the cheap bonded, overweight cantilever and stylus with a long line one reaps HUGE rewards for the Grado's sonics.

The AT, meanwhile, tracks like glue and is the Swiss Army Knife of cartridges in the US (for cost and wide applicability), but will always sound bright (and etched) to me, no matter the deck it's played.

I think the best way to enjoy the fine SL-1200 is to buy it cheap (new, best, as they have high resale value and the difference is slight), try a cartridge or two on it in your price range, make a few upgrades to it and enjoy what is likely the best value $1000 deck on the market today - and turn down the volume of rhetoric  and overzealous bullcrap from guys like me

John

[wilsynet]

Enough people seem to love the JVC QL-Y66F, and there happened to be a nice looking unit on Audiogon so I pulled the trigger.

Okay, things I have to do.  Presumably this list?

1. Herbie tenderfoots, way excellent mat, modeling clay, and dampening spray for the turntable.
2. Learn about cartridge alignment as per http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=40662.0
3. Learn about cleaning vinyl as per http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3377.0
4. Get a phono stage, say the Jolida JD-9A.  Any other suggestions for a phono stage?
5. Look at cartridges.  Is the Dynavector 10x5 appropriate?  How about the Zu DL-103 MC?  Are those appropriate, and does anyone have any suggestions?
6. Buy some records.

When I get the JVC turntable, should I lube certain parts?  Is the motor sealed or can I replace the oil?  What about the tonearm and things like that?

Am I missing anything?

[TheChairGuy]

wilsynet,

Good for you, man!  Help is always here if you need it.

The 10" arm on this JVC is terrific...longer means lower tracking distortion (all other things equal) and the Q damping feature is great.  High-compliance cartridges love it (and Grado's thrive on it).  I've yet to find a moving coil that meets my criteria for natural...but I have not lost hope completely.

#1 - Ditch the feet and get the Herbies Tenderfeet...it'll cure the major ill of this deck.
#2 - Fill it's hollow gizzards with plasticlay (nice dividends)
#3 - While you are buying the Herbies Tenderfeet, but a Way Excellent Turntable Mat.  It's a definitive improvement over the rubber one.
#4 - Get the most inert/non-resonant support base you can buy.  I use 3.5" maple, but others may work as well.

Yeah, once you are inside adding the plasticlay to the deck underneath...you will see the thrust plate where the bearing spins.  Add some oil or high quality slippery grease to it and it may work a bit better that way. If it runs when you get it, assume along life ahead of it.

An Owners Manual copy can be downloaded from VinylEngine.com 

Take some pics...I love the ones on Audiogon that I saw...the maple trim is definitely not stock from JVC so far as I know.

You just bought yourself a fantastic deck 

John

[wilsynet]

Take some pics...I love the ones on Audiogon that I saw...the maple trim is definitely not stock from JVC so far as I know.

Hrrm.  Now I'm a little paranoid.  Do you think perhaps the unit isn't stock?  Any concern about the plinth being wrong, and if so, would that hurt things?

Wilson

[TheChairGuy]

Rosewood, to my knowledge, was the only base color that I know of.

But, the seller has acknowledged that this was re-veneered (quite smartly, in my opinion)

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1238164389&/Jvc-ql-y66f-mc-200E

The base of this turntable has been re-veneered to add for weight and reduce any kind of resonance.

Hell man - for 395 clams with a cartridge - you need not be paranoid.  Besides, I could well be wrong and maple was an option that I didn't know about.  When you hear it (after adding the feet...otherwise this deck is feedback prone), you will be in serious bliss and all that will fade

John

[wilsynet]

Yes, yes, you're right.  Why worry?  Life is good.

[lazydays]

What kind of a comparison can be expected when the guy doing the comparison is already derogatory about KAB and Technics.  Keep in mind this so called shoot out is an opinion nothing more.  Since the organizer has continued to be negative regarding the Technics 12xx family and KAB, the conclusions are predictable.

EVERYTHING STATED HERE IS AN OPINION, but at least Jeff can hook up a bunch of tables next to one another with the same cartridge and compare them straight up.  IMO, that's more than most others, including myself, can say.  The previous statement does not include ChairGuy, Wayner, or 2bigears, who I know have multiple tables and carts in residence.

guess you can also add me into the SL1200 owners group. Being as I've owned two in the past, and will be picking up two more sometime in the next week or so I do think I have an idea what they will do and won't do.
gary

[jrtrent]

Enough people seem to love the JVC QL-Y66F, and there happened to be a nice looking unit on Audiogon so I pulled the trigger. . .

Am I missing anything?

I know I'm pulling your words out of context, but what seemed missing in this discussion was any reference to your system and the sonic goals you have for it.  Example, 25 years ago I started to assemble a hifi system (I had had a midfi system--BIC 960, Pioneer integrated amp, EPI speakers) for about eight years, and wanted to step up to something better.  What quickly became apparent is that there are different approaches to sound, and you can't necessarily get "everything" at your budget limits.  Most important to me were that the system convey the tune, rhythm, pace, and dynamics of the music; these to me at the time, were the most important criteria.  I didn't care about image localization, soundstage width/height/depth, frequency extremes, or the "etched" detail that some products catered to.  I ended up with an all Linn system (LP12/Ittok/LK1/LK2/Saras) that met my needs well.  In that system, a Rega or Roksan turntable would work well, but never a VPI or SOTA--not that there's anything wrong with those products; they just have different strengths that didn't match my needs.  Same with the electronics (Naim or Exposure would slip in nicely, probably not VTL or Conrad Johnson) and speakers (Epos yes, Vandersteen no).

Time, circumstances, and tastes change, and I now have a modest system in a small apartment, and my criteria for sound playback have changed, as have my musical interests.  I'm getting great satisfaction listening mostly to chamber music at soft volumes with a Well Tempered Record Player, Grado cartridge, Van Alstine electronics and Vandersteen speakers.  Many of the Linn components that made me happy for over 20 years would be out of place in my current system, not because they're bad, but because they have different strengths.  I think determining the kind of sound that will satisfy you needs to precede, or at least go hand-in-hand with, component choice.

Edit:  I just noticed your new thread on phono stages.  The same kind of logic applies.  In my previous system, if I wasn't happy with the LK1's phono stage, the Dynavector P-75 might have been a good choice; in my current system, Grado's PH-1 would probably make more sense (and I plan to audition it and a couple other phono stages in the coming months).  The question is, what are you trying to accomplish with any given component choice, and what models have strengths that match your desires?

[TheChairGuy]

Yes, yes, you're right.  Why worry?  Life is good.

Exactly - aside from health (whether yours, your friends, or families,etc)...everything else is pretty much trivial.

btw, I just noticed the arm on your maple Y66F is silver/chromed...mine is black in color....I sincerely doubt anyone colored the arm anything different than stock...so perhaps indeed there was another color option in this series that I had not known about.  Either way, it looks totally fetching in the pics and you will indeed be pleased with it's performance.

The SL-1200 (at least the beaten up example I own) doesn't play in the same league (despite all the current KAB and other enhancements).  The tracking performance of that 10" arm is absolutely stunning and the rest is damn decent

Truly, I listen to it and I think why am I even bothering to chase better performance? (I assume there always is - as well, the auto function takes as much pain from vinyl playback as there can be).  In this crazy hobby - that thought rarely occurs with me 

John

[wilsynet]

Funny as it sounds, I actually don't have any goals, at least not the kind of goals described by "sound stage", "harmonic completeness", "you-are-thereness" and other audiophile words.  My system is a Red Wine Audio Isabella with DAC, Red Wine Audio 30.2 amplifier, and Zu Druids.  I use the USB input of the Isabella's DAC with an older Apple Powerbook 12" as transport.

I'm absolutely delighted with my system.  But people say vinyl brings a different character to the overall presentation, and I'm interested in exploring that idea.  However, I don't want to get into a vinyl rig that is far inferior to what I already have in the digital domain, that is, I don't want to be disappointed.  So I'd like to put some money into some sensible things, and John says the Y66F is terrific value for money.  He seems to have a philosophy, and I'll trust it to lead me for awhile.  If we part ways somewhere down the road, that's okay as he'll have led me to some interesting places that I might not have gone otherwise.

I'd like to have an open mind, I'd like to discover what vinyl can bring to my living room, perhaps discover some old recordings where people say things like "It sure sounds better in vinyl than it does on CD".  I've heard a vinyl rig recently and I don't think I can really get into too much without bringing into my own space, to go through the ritual of finding records, setting up the system, cleaning the records, putting the needle in place and sitting down without a remote control.

[wilsynet]

John/ChairGuy,

The JVC will be on its way to me soon.  I've ordered the Herbie's 2mm Way Excellent II Mat, 5 Herbie's Tenderfoots, 8 lbs of grey Plast-i-Clay.  I have a phono stage on the way too.  I'm almost all the way there.

I'll use the cartridge that comes with the TT for now, but I want to start looking at other cartridges too.  The Dynavector 20X looks interesting, and you seem to really like the Denon DL-160 vdh.  Any thoughts on the Zu modded Denon DL-103?

Are there any requirements on cartridges, will some cartridges fit on the tonearm, and others won't?  Could you share your experience on what other cartridges besides the DL-160 work well with the JVC?

Also, the Jolida JD-9 has the following specs:

Input Impedance: 100Kohms
Output Impedance: 600 ohms
MM: 70 dB, 5 mV   
MC High: 85 dB, 0.5 mV – 1.5 mV
MC Low: 95 dB, 0.25 mV – 0.5 mV
Input Capacitance: 47 PF, 100PF, 150PF, 220PF

If I look at the specs for the Zu/Denon DL-103, I see the following:

Output: 0.3 mV
Stylus Pressure: 2.5 grams @ 70˚F for wide dynamic range media
Recommended Resistive Load: 80 Ohms, or as needed to get the phono pre to mate well
Mount to stylus vertical height: 0.60” (15mm)
Stylus Underhang: 0.06” (1.6mm)

Can someone point me to a tutorial on how to read this and match phono stage to cartridge?

Wilson

[TheChairGuy]

I'm absolutely delighted with my system.  But people say vinyl brings a different character to the overall presentation, and I'm interested in exploring that idea.  However, I don't want to get into a vinyl rig that is far inferior to what I already have in the digital domain, that is, I don't want to be disappointed.  So I'd like to put some money into some sensible things, and John says the Y66F is terrific value for money.  He seems to have a philosophy, and I'll trust it to lead me for awhile.  If we part ways somewhere down the road, that's okay as he'll have led me to some interesting places that I might not have gone otherwise.

It's totally okay to find your own path....after all, it's your journey, not mine or anyone else's. What sounds good to you, what brings you ultimate pleasure, is indeed good - no need for measurements or hi-fallutin' reviews

Let's see, thus far I have tried an ADC XLM Mk. III (with Astrion line stylus), the Denon DL-160vdH and a Grado Gold with shibata tip on the JVC.  I've only onwed mine for about 3 months now, so all 12 in my collection haven't spun thru it.  It has a removable armwand to aid cartridge changes....which is definitely not as convenient as having a removable headshell and different cartridges mounted to it ready to go.

The less expensive JVC stablemate that I have, the JVC QL-F6, has that.  It sounds really good too, I glowed about that for a couple years now (sounds better than $3000 worth of VPI HW-19 Mk. III or fully tricked out Technics SL-1200), but it pipped in sound quality by the more pricey/upscale Y66F.  So long as those stock feet are bypassed...which the Herbie's do extremely well (control feedback)

I suggested 5 Tenderfeet as I found four around the edges and a central one in the middle damp the flexy/feedback inducing bottom board on this deck.

On all 6 decks I have had since my return to vinyl 3+ years ago, I keep reaching the conclusion that although the Denon DL-160vdH and Ortofon X5-MC are quite commendable (high-output) moving coils, I keep coming back to the naturalness of moving iron and moving magnets.  I diverge from most hi-fallutin' vinylphools on that one...who tend to hear the lower distortion and and quieter presentation of a moving coil over the other stickign points.  I 'get' that and enjoy them....but, when I reference live music, the moving coils fall short.

The most natural is my Grado Gold with shibata tip (the Grado in the line today that gives you a shibata/ellipsoid tip is $1800 or so now).  Grado's are the tweakiest and most painful cartridges to dial in....damping (which your incoming Y66F has in both vertical and horizontal planes...and it's more modern magnetic, not fluid) is essential to getting them right.  I don't necessary recommend Grado's to all as they really are a pain....but after your initial selection of cartridge (whatever it is), once you feel comfy with vinyl, you may want to hear a Grado and experience it's utter naturalness. There is a certain way it portrays instruments like no other I have heard.

I uniformly like CD playback for the past 5 years.....it's uniformly decent now (which surprises me from the depths it has come ), but when vinyl is dialed in right, it's peerless among audio software formats.  I traded in a much-ballyhoo'ed, modded MSB Gold Link III DAC, (modded) Sony DVP-S7700 dedicated transport and custom Revelation Labs umbilical ($4500 outlay) when I bought a $50 JVC QL-A2 deck a few years ago upon my return to vinyl. 

The few years away listening to CD-only was the musical depth of my audiophool life - or about 2-and-a-half decades    You are well on your way to having that V-8 moment, too 

btw, here is my (and others) pecking order of cartridges that may be helpful to you: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31869.20

[Jose Garcia]

Hola John, saludos!

I just saw this post and noticed there is a new member to the JVC QL-Y66F club  aa

Seems that you are appreciating more your unit 

Wilson, the Herbie Mat is a great addition to the unit. I bought one and it certainly best the stock rubber mat and everything else I have used with my unit.

John found the Herbies Tenderfeet to uo a notch his unit. I got fanstastic results with my home made Roller Base.

Regarding to the internal trasformer, you can take out of the unit. I also reccomend swapping the stcok power cord and RCA's for something better.

Have fun!

Jose

[Toka]

Just to toss another curveball into the mix I'll mention that there is a guy on AA offering mods of the SL-1600 MK2 (a fully automatic, suspended variant on the '1200). Not quite as "all out" as what KAB offers (ie no outboard PS, tonearm damper, etc) but he does rewire the arm and can custom paint it for you. Haven't heard one myself but people seem to like it. No idea on cost either.

[Stark]

Hi,

New here, great read, got me to join.

@Tone, have you done your review yet of the Sound H-Fi gear? I don't see the results in the thread, just it noted you were waiting on them.

tks.